Tad,
Can you expand on this "then a thin player of latex based stucco material over that." Can you remember product names and formulae?
Thanks
From: zenseeker70 <mrinnovation@frontiernet.net>
There are multiple ways to waterproof porous materials like papercrete, but they cost up to 25 percent of the cost of the building in many cases. When I used to be in the waterproof decking and basement sealing business back in the 1980's we used different methods:
1. Multi-Chem. This is a thick rubber membrane that goes in in 10 mil thickness depending on substrate. It is solvent based and is rolled on or sprayed on with airless sprayers. This stuff was over 120 dollars per 5 gallon back in the 80's but it made any concrete, wood, or fiber reinforced surface absolutely waterproof for decades of foot traffic. You could also spray it onto block wall basements and it would perform the same. No amount of groundwater would penetrate the membrane, even after decades. The company has since been sold to Haliburton, but the product is now made by other companies for basement sealing. It is grey to blue in color, and requires acetone to thin it and clean up, and respirators are a must for application. Very nasty stuff but it gets the job done every time.
2. EPDM rubber membrane we used on basement walls and they were glued into place with at least 2 inches of overlap on the seams.
3. Partial waterproofing can be done by using a closed cell polyurethane foam over the substrate, then a thin player of latex based stucco material over that. This allows backfill without puncturing the material. This system is still used in the monolithic underground dome buildings I've seen built over the years. Sometimes the airform is left in place and that provides the waterproofing over the closed cell foam.
4. Old school methods such as tar and bituminous might work with papercrete but would take some experimentation and would degrade faster than other methods.
http://www.undergroundhousing.com/
The groundwater level like other have mentioned is a big issue. Up here in the white mountains of Arizona it's not a problem since we have water at 350-750 feet and one of the driest environments in the world, but in Texas with shallow ground water, I think I would have to side with others that it would be risky to build this way with papercrete, unless you have sealed outer walls made of 8x8x16 block, then waterproofed as I have outlined above. The papercrete in this case would only be used for a thermal break from ground to help inside temperatures.
Tad
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "waterengineman101" wrote:
>
> Hello people. Long time no see! Well guys work and daily life gets in my fasinasion about papercrete a lot so I end up not getting to spend much time on it. However soon (like in 2 months) I will be able to start my house. As you should know, the earth is absolutely the best insulater against the heat of summer (think, far south texas, 100 degrees everyday for months on end...for real!). And, I have access to a backhoe and can operate it. AND, if its underground I won't have to pay taxes on it. So here's the BIG question. What is a sure fire no guessing truely proven way to make papercrete waterproof? Now I want to clearify. I don't mean I want to know if it will work just a little bit, I want to know it will work FOR SURE! no cactus juice works well, no I heard you use linseed oil...I need it to actually BE waterproof as now I am concidering building the house underground. To ease fears, I allready think I know about how to keep it from colapsing in. right now I am only researching on how to make papercrete WATERPROOF. Totally waterproof, no seapage, No dampness threw the wall...TOTAL waterproofing. NOW.....can anybody tell me what I need to know. I will await an answer and I will check back after work today. Thanks for your time.
>
> s.
>
1. Multi-Chem. This is a thick rubber membrane that goes in in 10 mil thickness depending on substrate. It is solvent based and is rolled on or sprayed on with airless sprayers. This stuff was over 120 dollars per 5 gallon back in the 80's but it made any concrete, wood, or fiber reinforced surface absolutely waterproof for decades of foot traffic. You could also spray it onto block wall basements and it would perform the same. No amount of groundwater would penetrate the membrane, even after decades. The company has since been sold to Haliburton, but the product is now made by other companies for basement sealing. It is grey to blue in color, and requires acetone to thin it and clean up, and respirators are a must for application. Very nasty stuff but it gets the job done every time.
2. EPDM rubber membrane we used on basement walls and they were glued into place with at least 2 inches of overlap on the seams.
3. Partial waterproofing can be done by using a closed cell polyurethane foam over the substrate, then a thin player of latex based stucco material over that. This allows backfill without puncturing the material. This system is still used in the monolithic underground dome buildings I've seen built over the years. Sometimes the airform is left in place and that provides the waterproofing over the closed cell foam.
4. Old school methods such as tar and bituminous might work with papercrete but would take some experimentation and would degrade faster than other methods.
http://www.undergroundhousing.com/
The groundwater level like other have mentioned is a big issue. Up here in the white mountains of Arizona it's not a problem since we have water at 350-750 feet and one of the driest environments in the world, but in Texas with shallow ground water, I think I would have to side with others that it would be risky to build this way with papercrete, unless you have sealed outer walls made of 8x8x16 block, then waterproofed as I have outlined above. The papercrete in this case would only be used for a thermal break from ground to help inside temperatures.
Tad
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "waterengineman101" wrote:
>
> Hello people. Long time no see! Well guys work and daily life gets in my fasinasion about papercrete a lot so I end up not getting to spend much time on it. However soon (like in 2 months) I will be able to start my house. As you should know, the earth is absolutely the best insulater against the heat of summer (think, far south texas, 100 degrees everyday for months on end...for real!). And, I have access to a backhoe and can operate it. AND, if its underground I won't have to pay taxes on it. So here's the BIG question. What is a sure fire no guessing truely proven way to make papercrete waterproof? Now I want to clearify. I don't mean I want to know if it will work just a little bit, I want to know it will work FOR SURE! no cactus juice works well, no I heard you use linseed oil...I need it to actually BE waterproof as now I am concidering building the house underground. To ease fears, I allready think I know about how to keep it from colapsing in. right now I am only researching on how to make papercrete WATERPROOF. Totally waterproof, no seapage, No dampness threw the wall...TOTAL waterproofing. NOW.....can anybody tell me what I need to know. I will await an answer and I will check back after work today. Thanks for your time.
>
> s.
>
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