[papercreters] Re: underground papercrete house? How do I waterproof it?

Stucco is exterior. I am talking underground, and waterproof, not water resistant. There is no use for stucco in my application.

"superplasticizers"...have heard of them. May or may not incorperate them in the mix.
"grancrete or Kool-seal or similar would guarantee waterproofing"...Haven't heard of either but will do the research.





--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "zenseeker70" <mrinnovation@...> wrote:
>
> Sure. Most of the stucco base coat products on the market are made for water resistance, and typically use latex additives, which also improve workability. Some are even supposed to be water proof. Most all of the additives (I.E. Sika) create a polymer-modified concrete which is at least water resistant. At the batch plant it was very common to add these to our mixes for cold weather and where we knew there would be constant freeze/thaw standing water. It reduces the probability of spalling and other concrete defects from freeze/thaw cycles. Latex polymers also reduce or eliminate the need to vibrate around reinforcement structures (rebar).
>
> If using Portland based cements a superplasticizer can greatly reduce the water absorption rates.
>
> http://usa.sika.com/en/solutions_products/02/Concrete_Admixtures/02a001sa38/02a001sa38100/02a001sa38106.html
>
> Grancrete is also an option if you are close enough to a distributor since by nature it's hydrophobic. A thin layer of Kool-seal or similar would guarantee waterproofing.
>
> Mixing a batch of polymerized stucco is not difficult, you simply mix the stucco as normal and then add the admixture (which is almost always just latex and an alcohol as a wetting agent).
>
> Check out the Sika products. I've used them alot with very good results. I put a water tank 7 feet down into the ground for temperature stabilization and then poured polymer-modified concrete around it. Worked very well and you notice even after getting wet, freezing, and then thawing, it does not retain the water.
>
> Tad
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ron Richter <ronerichter@> wrote:
> >
> > Tad,
> > Can you expand on this "then a thin player of latex based stucco material over that."  Can you remember product names and formulae?
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: zenseeker70 <mrinnovation@>
> >
> >
> >  
> > There are multiple ways to waterproof porous materials like papercrete, but they cost up to 25 percent of the cost of the building in many cases. When I used to be in the waterproof decking and basement sealing business back in the 1980's we used different methods:
> >
> > 1. Multi-Chem. This is a thick rubber membrane that goes in in 10 mil thickness depending on substrate. It is solvent based and is rolled on or sprayed on with airless sprayers. This stuff was over 120 dollars per 5 gallon back in the 80's but it made any concrete, wood, or fiber reinforced surface absolutely waterproof for decades of foot traffic. You could also spray it onto block wall basements and it would perform the same. No amount of groundwater would penetrate the membrane, even after decades. The company has since been sold to Haliburton, but the product is now made by other companies for basement sealing. It is grey to blue in color, and requires acetone to thin it and clean up, and respirators are a must for application. Very nasty stuff but it gets the job done every time.
> >
> > 2. EPDM rubber membrane we used on basement walls and they were glued into place with at least 2 inches of overlap on the seams.
> >
> > 3. Partial waterproofing can be done by using a closed cell polyurethane foam over the substrate, then a thin player of latex based stucco material over that. This allows backfill without puncturing the material. This system is still used in the monolithic underground dome buildings I've seen built over the years. Sometimes the airform is left in place and that provides the waterproofing over the closed cell foam.
> >
> > 4. Old school methods such as tar and bituminous might work with papercrete but would take some experimentation and would degrade faster than other methods.
> >
> > http://www.undergroundhousing.com/
> >
> > The groundwater level like other have mentioned is a big issue. Up here in the white mountains of Arizona it's not a problem since we have water at 350-750 feet and one of the driest environments in the world, but in Texas with shallow ground water, I think I would have to side with others that it would be risky to build this way with papercrete, unless you have sealed outer walls made of 8x8x16 block, then waterproofed as I have outlined above. The papercrete in this case would only be used for a thermal break from ground to help inside temperatures.
> >
> > Tad
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "waterengineman101" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello people. Long time no see! Well guys work and daily life gets in my fasinasion about papercrete a lot so I end up not getting to spend much time on it. However soon (like in 2 months) I will be able to start my house. As you should know, the earth is absolutely the best insulater against the heat of summer (think, far south texas, 100 degrees everyday for months on end...for real!). And, I have access to a backhoe and can operate it. AND, if its underground I won't have to pay taxes on it. So here's the BIG question. What is a sure fire no guessing truely proven way to make papercrete waterproof? Now I want to clearify. I don't mean I want to know if it will work just a little bit, I want to know it will work FOR SURE! no cactus juice works well, no I heard you use linseed oil...I need it to actually BE waterproof as now I am concidering building the house underground. To ease fears, I allready think I know about how to keep it from colapsing
> > in. right now I am only researching on how to make papercrete WATERPROOF. Totally waterproof, no seapage, No dampness threw the wall...TOTAL waterproofing. NOW.....can anybody tell me what I need to know. I will await an answer and I will check back after work today. Thanks for your time.
> > >
> > > s.
> > >
> >
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/