Thursday, August 29, 2013

[papercreters] RE: PC and rocket stoves



 I don't recommend papercrete.


However, padobe can work extremely well.  

I have used pulped paper instead of sawdust using the aprovecho process described in this video.  Works great.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIMi0DVDvqw


I shaped mine into one big cylinder.  (rammed the wet paper and clay into a cylindrical mold)  Then allowed it to dry for several weeks before GENTLY firing it by slowly starting a small fire and very gradually building up the temperature.  


The paper still burns out ... as spaceman suggested it will if papercrete is used.  However, using enough clay leaves behind a ceramic matrix filled with tiny holes where the paper pulp burned away.  Excellent firebrick insulation.


Give it a try.



--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <richvollnogle@yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone used papercrete to fill between chimney's in a rocket stove? I was going to experiment with small Stoves and see how well it would do vs the perlite etc. Any response would be appreciated


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Wednesday, August 28, 2013

[papercreters] Re: PC and rocket stoves

Actually, if you do a little research (such as http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp) you'll probably find that many rocket stoves are made from mainly metal.
Ours is actually a "rocket stove mass heater," which encases part of the stove in rock and/or cob to retain and slowly release the heat. I understand many RSMH's are built using brick, but one of the beauties of rocket stoves is that you can pretty much utilize whatever you can scrounge up to build with (hopefully using your brain to eliminate the obvious dangers).
Being in the middle of building a DIY house, we frequent many auctions, garage sales, etc. We did use some brick in part of our design, but used the metal stove pipe for the burn chamber and heat riser first because we just ended up with it in with some other stuff we bought at an auction, and knew from research that others had used it. After having problems pop up with it and finding that the pipe had burned clear through in places, we tried some terra cotta flue lining we had, but it cracked. We went to metal well casing because it was available for an affordable price and we knew some people who used it for their traditional stove who swore by it. Unfortunately, we only supported the vertical heat riser pipe on the back edge with bricks and set the front edge on top of the horizontal burn chamber, not realizing that it would get hot enough for the weight of the vertical pipe to flatten the horizontal pipe a bit. So far it hasn't burned through though, and the ash insulation and bricks we used in the rest of the design have seemed to circumvent any other problem. We just need to go in and support the vertical pipe better. Live and learn, huh? If another option had popped up at the onset (like a used kiln) we would have used it instead . . .

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "eepjr24" <eepjr24@...> wrote:
>
> I am a bit confused why anyone would use metal for a rocket stove? Is it required? Anytime I am trying to contain temps in excess of 1,000 degrees F my first thought would be fire brick or kiln shelves. You can buy old kilns for next to nothing on Craigslist, if you are looking for a source. They would also make very good fill material.
>
> If they start burning, try to be very far away indeed (they are rated for 1600 C or so).
>
> - E
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "itsbeckybob" <itsbeckybob@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <richvollnogle@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Has anyone used papercrete to fill between chimney's in a rocket stove? I was going to experiment with small Stoves and see how well it would do vs the perlite etc. Any response would be appreciated
> > >
> > From the little experience we have had: One time we were drying out some experimental papercrete bricks next to our wood stove (it was snowy outside). One tipped over really close to the stove and began to smoke so I took it outside. The next morning all that was left of the brick was a small pile of ashes and a brownish smudge where I had leaned it up against the aluminum siding.
> > About insulation in a rocket stove--for the last two years we have used a rocket stove in the 12-sided, 32' diameter off-grid home we are building. We have found that wood ash is very good insulation, and can be collected from friends and family who have "traditional" wood stoves who generally end up with lots of ash. (By the way, from our experience rocket stoves get so hot that they will burn out normal stove pipe metal, crack terra cotta chimney flue bricks, and if you use heavy duty metal well casings make sure there is nothing heavy pushing down on one side or it will re-shape them.)
> > On a side note, if you are interested in an alternative solution to the t-pipe some people put in their rocket stoves to make a fire in to start the draw, ask us about our serendipitous experience with a "whirlybird" (also cuts down on backdraft) :P
> >
>




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[papercreters] Re: PC and rocket stoves

I am a bit confused why anyone would use metal for a rocket stove? Is it required? Anytime I am trying to contain temps in excess of 1,000 degrees F my first thought would be fire brick or kiln shelves. You can buy old kilns for next to nothing on Craigslist, if you are looking for a source. They would also make very good fill material.

If they start burning, try to be very far away indeed (they are rated for 1600 C or so).

- E

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "itsbeckybob" <itsbeckybob@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <richvollnogle@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone used papercrete to fill between chimney's in a rocket stove? I was going to experiment with small Stoves and see how well it would do vs the perlite etc. Any response would be appreciated
> >
> From the little experience we have had: One time we were drying out some experimental papercrete bricks next to our wood stove (it was snowy outside). One tipped over really close to the stove and began to smoke so I took it outside. The next morning all that was left of the brick was a small pile of ashes and a brownish smudge where I had leaned it up against the aluminum siding.
> About insulation in a rocket stove--for the last two years we have used a rocket stove in the 12-sided, 32' diameter off-grid home we are building. We have found that wood ash is very good insulation, and can be collected from friends and family who have "traditional" wood stoves who generally end up with lots of ash. (By the way, from our experience rocket stoves get so hot that they will burn out normal stove pipe metal, crack terra cotta chimney flue bricks, and if you use heavy duty metal well casings make sure there is nothing heavy pushing down on one side or it will re-shape them.)
> On a side note, if you are interested in an alternative solution to the t-pipe some people put in their rocket stoves to make a fire in to start the draw, ask us about our serendipitous experience with a "whirlybird" (also cuts down on backdraft) :P
>




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[papercreters] Re: PC and rocket stoves

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <richvollnogle@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone used papercrete to fill between chimney's in a rocket stove? I was going to experiment with small Stoves and see how well it would do vs the perlite etc. Any response would be appreciated
>
From the little experience we have had: One time we were drying out some experimental papercrete bricks next to our wood stove (it was snowy outside). One tipped over really close to the stove and began to smoke so I took it outside. The next morning all that was left of the brick was a small pile of ashes and a brownish smudge where I had leaned it up against the aluminum siding.
About insulation in a rocket stove--for the last two years we have used a rocket stove in the 12-sided, 32' diameter off-grid home we are building. We have found that wood ash is very good insulation, and can be collected from friends and family who have "traditional" wood stoves who generally end up with lots of ash. (By the way, from our experience rocket stoves get so hot that they will burn out normal stove pipe metal, crack terra cotta chimney flue bricks, and if you use heavy duty metal well casings make sure there is nothing heavy pushing down on one side or it will re-shape them.)
On a side note, if you are interested in an alternative solution to the t-pipe some people put in their rocket stoves to make a fire in to start the draw, ask us about our serendipitous experience with a "whirlybird" (also cuts down on backdraft) :P



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Monday, August 26, 2013

Re: [papercreters] PC and rocket stoves

Probably not a great idea. Papercrete won't burst into flame but it will
char and all the paper will be consumed, leaving you with not much ash
and a little cement. Don't rocket stoves get really hot in the chimney?

That said, why not try it with lots of cement, and tell us how it works out?

spaceman

On 8/26/2013 4:01 PM, Richard wrote:
> Has anyone used papercrete to fill between chimney's in a rocket stove? I was going to experiment with small Stoves and see how well it would do vs the perlite etc. Any response would be appreciated
>
>



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[papercreters] PC and rocket stoves

Has anyone used papercrete to fill between chimney's in a rocket stove? I was going to experiment with small Stoves and see how well it would do vs the perlite etc. Any response would be appreciated



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Wednesday, August 21, 2013

[papercreters] Re: restoration

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <robertmerrill1953@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All....... been awhile and am enjoying browsing the many topics being considered. Thought you might like to see how I repaired the burned portion of a shop utilizing carpet, wire, and of course Papercrete. Just go to You Tube and search "Papercrete made easy. Am also putting the final touches on a 95 H.P. emulsifier that has a woodgas generator for fuel. Take Care...... Bob
>
Couldn't locate the video on YouTube, please post actual URL .




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Tuesday, August 20, 2013

[papercreters] restoration

Hi All....... been awhile and am enjoying browsing the many topics being considered. Thought you might like to see how I repaired the burned portion of a shop utilizing carpet, wire, and of course Papercrete. Just go to You Tube and search "Papercrete made easy. Am also putting the final touches on a 95 H.P. emulsifier that has a woodgas generator for fuel. Take Care...... Bob



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Sunday, August 18, 2013

[papercreters] RE: Completely FREE Permaculture Design Course (72+ HOURS!)

Hello friends,

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--
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Join our 60,000+ fans @ http://facebook.com/regenerativeleader


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Sunday, August 11, 2013

[papercreters] Re: More Russian Woodchipcrete



I can understand why the Russian might be interested in chipcrete. Much of the country is just one huge birch forest. 10-15km outside of most Russian cities its nothing but forest.

Any part of it you want translated? Wife is Russian.

Interesting video.


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Saturday, August 10, 2013

Re: [papercreters] More Russian Woodchipcrete



Sorry but that is a bad link.
Alan



From: "slurryguy@yahoo.com" <slurryguy@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:49 AM
Subject: [papercreters] More Russian Woodchipcrete



http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&amp;tl=en&amp;js=n&amp;prev=_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DY-uWVpHost4&amp;act=url

Looks to be a fast growing trend over there.  The American background music is an interesting choice... "Putin" on the Ritz ?








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[papercreters] More Russian Woodchipcrete



http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&amp;tl=en&amp;js=n&amp;prev=_t&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DY-uWVpHost4&amp;act=url


Looks to be a fast growing trend over there.  The American background music is an interesting choice... "Putin" on the Ritz ?




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Friday, August 2, 2013

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete and Extreme Couponing, the perfect partnership?



Try SoapGoods -- http://www.soapgoods.com/Borax-Granular-p-592.html -- they sell borax for a $1/# if you buy 55# of the stuff.


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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete and Extreme Couponing, the perfect partnership?

As a general rule, you may not resell coupons. But what many do is charge a "clipping fee" whereby others pay for your labor. The problem however is it's a lot of work for not much money.

If you go on eBay and see what folks are getting for bundles of coupons and then figure how much labor was involved, the return is pretty low. For the same labor, I'd think you'd do better selling papercrete products such as blocks, planters, dog houses, etc.


--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "JayH" <slurryguy@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting replies, everyone.
>
> I'm not so much interested in slaving away trying to find the steal deals myself.
>
> I'm more interested in figuring out whether it can be worthwhile to become a coupon supplier to others that want to find the great deals and take advantage of them.
>
> When someone has a stockpile of paper, and that stockpile of paper often has a bunch of coupons inside. Is it worth a papercreter's time to pull out those coupons and offer them to those who take the time to do all the deal searching?
>
>
> And... on a related side issue...
>
> For those that do coupon a lot... have you ever seen a coupon offer for Borax? If so where?
>
>
>
>
>




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Thursday, August 1, 2013

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete and Extreme Couponing, the perfect partnership?

Interesting replies, everyone.

I'm not so much interested in slaving away trying to find the steal deals myself.

I'm more interested in figuring out whether it can be worthwhile to become a coupon supplier to others that want to find the great deals and take advantage of them.

When someone has a stockpile of paper, and that stockpile of paper often has a bunch of coupons inside. Is it worth a papercreter's time to pull out those coupons and offer them to those who take the time to do all the deal searching?


And... on a related side issue...

For those that do coupon a lot... have you ever seen a coupon offer for Borax? If so where?





--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> For the other side of the coin. I have found couponing did no good for
> us. Once in a while I can get real whole food, such as eggs or butter,
> but mostly it is just prepared foods. If you eat that stuff, you can
> save money, but if you don't, it doesn't work.
>
> My toothpaste is my own home made soap. Same with all cleaning supplies
> and shampoo etc. I need specific toilet paper since I use a microflush
> composting toilet, so no coupons. We don't use napkins or paper towels.
>
> I have yet to find my organic, free trade coffee on coupon. Dairy these
> days is from our own grass fed cow. Salt never seems to be on coupon,
> or organic pepper.
>
> How much you can save on coupons really depends on what you buy. We
> found we save even more money by making/growing our own not buying.
>
> Bright Blessings,
> Garth & Kim Travis
> www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> Bedias, Texas
>
> On 7/31/2013 9:36 AM, trendawareness wrote:
> > I do papercrete while my wife and daughters do coupons.
> >
> > Here's the bottom line.
> >
> > Yes, you can save a lot of money with the skillful use of coupons, but
> > like with papercrete, there's a lot of labor required.
> >
> > Not only does it take a lot of time to clip the coupons, but they must
> > be cataloged (not just sorted) in order for them to be matched to future
> > store sales and promotions.
> >
> > Where you get the most bang for the coupon is matching an older coupon
> > with a new sale where you can apply the coupon to the sale price. Done
> > skillfully, savings of 75% on a particular product is very doable. Then,
> > wherever possible, you buy in bulk during the sales to maximize your
> > long-term savings.
> >
> > The art of couponing is the adjustments to the ever-changing coupon
> > policies. Some stores will double coupons, others restrict how many you
> > can use in a single transactions. The latest variation is the mandatory
> > use of electronic coupons before paper coupons, restricting your ability
> > to decide which coupon you wish to use first.
> >
> > Another dimension is keeping track of multiple stores, although if you
> > live rural, as many papercreters do, this may not be an option. I'm a
> > suburban papercreter, so the wife has three major grocery chains nearby
> > and the savings more than offsets the few extra miles.
> >
> > With all this said, the downside is that hard-core couponing requires
> > 20-30 hours of work per week. Yes, it can be a full or part-time job and
> > if you have a large family, but the potential savings can be the
> > equivalent to working a part-time job. In other words, rather than
> > picking up a minimum wage part-time job, you or your teen could "make"
> > just as much money couponing 20 hours a week.
> >
> > If you don't have that much time, then realistically you can still knock
> > 25% - 50% off your typical grocery bill using coupons coupled with other
> > frugal living techniques, such as shopping the sales, buying in bulk,
> > canning & freezing, etc.
> >
> > I hope all this helps.
> >
> > Now my rant against the "extreme couponing" TV shows. Like the
> > "prepping" shows, they are not representative of the community as a
> > whole as they seek to sensationalize things using staged events. Most
> > hard-working couponers are the humble hard-working type who detest the
> > materialistic orgies depicted in the coupon shows.
> >
> > While a serious couponer will have a shelf full of toothpaste or toilet
> > paper, but they know they actually need such things and they'll be used
> > over time. But for someone to clear out a shelf of diapers when they
> > don't have any babies is discourteous to other shoppers and little more
> > than vane trophy collecting.
> >
> > In response, the coupon shows have emphasized that many couponers donate
> > what they don't need to charity, which is often true, but that does
> > little to excuse their crass, orchestrated sensationalism. Again, much
> > like the so-called "prepping" and "survival" shows.
> >
> > My two cents....
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, "JayH" <slurryguy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've used the occasional coupon, but from what I'm being told, there
> > are people that get rather crazy about it and collect hundreds or
> > thousands of coupons in an attempt to get truckloads of free or very
> > cheap stuff. I guess there are people that are willing to even purchase
> > coupons from others because it saves more money than they spend buying
> > coupons.
> > >
> > > Anybody done it? Anybody partnering with a coupon collector?
> > >
> > > Could it be profitable for a papercreter to take the time to sort
> > through their paper supply to set aside whatever coupons might be in there?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't claim to be an expert on this topic. I'm just asking
> > questions, and would be interested in learning about other's experiences.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6538 - Release Date: 07/31/13
> >
>




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