Interesting idea :) I have so much shredded paper to get rid of, that is what I will use otherwise I would have gone the hypertufa route, but I think papercrete will produce an exceptional product and is stronger than hypertufa (for stepping stones anyway); I've got a couple of forms built, now to catch my breath :) I read somewhere that papercrete can be painted, sawed, and nailed like wood can, might come in handy if true. When hypertufa gets "leather-hard" I can scrape edges to smooth and carve in designs. Does papercrete have a "leather-hard" stage?
From: "prrr.t21@btinternet.com" <prrr@talk21.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Borax
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Borax
If you want a prettier product, lime adds whiteness and is far cheaper than cement dye.
Another option is to shred rinsed tetrapaks and make papercrete with those. You then get a nice speckly finish. Tetras are hard going to pulp, but they work fine.
When experimenting with added fibre I've mostly used shredded carpet.
--- In mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com, MotherReiver <motherreiver@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you Barry! I am still watching the thread. As I start the project today, I couldn't find a form I liked (re one piece arched short wall) so I am going to make some forms on the ground to be irregular "pickets" (2' length, 4" width 2" thick) in the ground I can "plant" in an arch. I think once they are cured I will certainly plant them hopefully in several artistic arched trenches to dot along my hill. All it has to do it hold back a little potting soil, catch a bit of water run off to grow some sunflowers. As for the stepping stones, I'm going to have dug into the mountainous dirt "stair" shapes. Should I use something like rebar or chicken wire in the middle of the mix, or strengthen the Portland cement combo?
> Â
> I still would like some recipe ideas for small loads. My youtube pal packymck has an outstanding video and based on my mixer style, I will follow his lead to begin today. If I have failures in recipes until I get it right, I'm simply going to pour it at the end of my greenhouse to keep critters from digging under.Â
> Â
> I like the idea of adding some fibers. I have some supplies from my hypertufa recipes that may go nicely. I also bought some cement dyes to knock some of the grey out - think that will work out?
> Â
> Mother
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Barry Norris <barry.pomaikai@...>
> To: mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Borax
>
> Â
>
> Mother, if you are still watching the thread, I took your request to be how to proportion your Portland cement, sand, paper pulp, and water to either pour in place or mold some panels [ ? 2 by 4 feet but how thick? - height x length x thickness = volume]. I don't have that answer, but there are lots of well-qualified papercreters who could help you calculate that mix, I think. Just to spike up some more opinion, how about adding PVA fibers, admix or fortifier, or a pozzolan like silica fume or metakaolin (which are considered part of the cementitious component, I think), and even some superplasticizer to reduce the water needed to make it pour easier. So, are you thinking of rebar or wire mesh for added strength? And would you be sinking the wall into a trench or anchoring it?
> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 4:16 PM, spaceman <Spaceman@...> wrote:
>
> >Â
> >Some of the calcium changes into lime when reacting with the water. Here
> >OPC does not contain lime, it changes into lime in the chemical
> >reaction. Even your EU standards don't include lime except possibly in
> >the unspecified "other compounds" which are a small part at best. What
> >you posted does not say lime is part of those compounds.
> >
> >If it makes you happy, sure I use lime in my pc, even though none of the
> >ingredients I put in the mix contain lime. I give up. You win.
> >
> >Since the cement reacts and becomes partially lime, and lime absorbs CO2
> >to eventually become limestone, I mix my pc with limestone.
> >
> >This whole discussion has been a waste of time and contributed nothing.
> >I apologize to the group for being drawn into it. It won't happen again.
> >
> >On 5/27/2013 4:34 PM, mailto:prrr.t21%40btinternet.com wrote:
> >> The point is that opc does contain some Calcium hydroxide, aka lime.
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com, spaceman <Spaceman@> wrote:
> >>> I'm not sure what your point is. While portland cement MAY contain other
> >>> compounds, those compounds generally are not lime. The portland cement I
> >>> buy complies with the standard I posted yesterday and has no lime. Are
> >>> you still trying to insist that I use lime in my papercrete? I do not.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/27/2013 4:14 AM, prrr.t21@ wrote:
> >>>> Wikipedia:
> >>>>
> >>>> When traditional Portland cement is mixed with water the dissolution of calcium, sodium and potassium hydroxides produces a highly alkaline solution (pH ~13):
> >>>>
> >>>> Calcium hydroxide is building lime.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> European Standard EN197-1:
> >>>>
> >>>> Portland cement clinker is a hydraulic material which shall consist of at least two-thirds by mass of calcium silicates (3 CaO·SiO2 and 2 CaO·SiO2), the remainder consisting of aluminium- and iron-containing clinker phases and other compounds. The ratio of CaO to SiO2 shall not be less than 2.0. The magnesium oxide content (MgO) shall not exceed 5.0% by mass.
> >>>> So upto a third by weight of cement is other things than calcium silicates.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> (For some reason its not quoting your post.)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
Another option is to shred rinsed tetrapaks and make papercrete with those. You then get a nice speckly finish. Tetras are hard going to pulp, but they work fine.
When experimenting with added fibre I've mostly used shredded carpet.
--- In mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com, MotherReiver <motherreiver@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you Barry! I am still watching the thread. As I start the project today, I couldn't find a form I liked (re one piece arched short wall) so I am going to make some forms on the ground to be irregular "pickets" (2' length, 4" width 2" thick) in the ground I can "plant" in an arch. I think once they are cured I will certainly plant them hopefully in several artistic arched trenches to dot along my hill. All it has to do it hold back a little potting soil, catch a bit of water run off to grow some sunflowers. As for the stepping stones, I'm going to have dug into the mountainous dirt "stair" shapes. Should I use something like rebar or chicken wire in the middle of the mix, or strengthen the Portland cement combo?
> Â
> I still would like some recipe ideas for small loads. My youtube pal packymck has an outstanding video and based on my mixer style, I will follow his lead to begin today. If I have failures in recipes until I get it right, I'm simply going to pour it at the end of my greenhouse to keep critters from digging under.Â
> Â
> I like the idea of adding some fibers. I have some supplies from my hypertufa recipes that may go nicely. I also bought some cement dyes to knock some of the grey out - think that will work out?
> Â
> Mother
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Barry Norris <barry.pomaikai@...>
> To: mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Borax
>
> Â
>
> Mother, if you are still watching the thread, I took your request to be how to proportion your Portland cement, sand, paper pulp, and water to either pour in place or mold some panels [ ? 2 by 4 feet but how thick? - height x length x thickness = volume]. I don't have that answer, but there are lots of well-qualified papercreters who could help you calculate that mix, I think. Just to spike up some more opinion, how about adding PVA fibers, admix or fortifier, or a pozzolan like silica fume or metakaolin (which are considered part of the cementitious component, I think), and even some superplasticizer to reduce the water needed to make it pour easier. So, are you thinking of rebar or wire mesh for added strength? And would you be sinking the wall into a trench or anchoring it?
> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 4:16 PM, spaceman <Spaceman@...> wrote:
>
> >Â
> >Some of the calcium changes into lime when reacting with the water. Here
> >OPC does not contain lime, it changes into lime in the chemical
> >reaction. Even your EU standards don't include lime except possibly in
> >the unspecified "other compounds" which are a small part at best. What
> >you posted does not say lime is part of those compounds.
> >
> >If it makes you happy, sure I use lime in my pc, even though none of the
> >ingredients I put in the mix contain lime. I give up. You win.
> >
> >Since the cement reacts and becomes partially lime, and lime absorbs CO2
> >to eventually become limestone, I mix my pc with limestone.
> >
> >This whole discussion has been a waste of time and contributed nothing.
> >I apologize to the group for being drawn into it. It won't happen again.
> >
> >On 5/27/2013 4:34 PM, mailto:prrr.t21%40btinternet.com wrote:
> >> The point is that opc does contain some Calcium hydroxide, aka lime.
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com, spaceman <Spaceman@> wrote:
> >>> I'm not sure what your point is. While portland cement MAY contain other
> >>> compounds, those compounds generally are not lime. The portland cement I
> >>> buy complies with the standard I posted yesterday and has no lime. Are
> >>> you still trying to insist that I use lime in my papercrete? I do not.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/27/2013 4:14 AM, prrr.t21@ wrote:
> >>>> Wikipedia:
> >>>>
> >>>> When traditional Portland cement is mixed with water the dissolution of calcium, sodium and potassium hydroxides produces a highly alkaline solution (pH ~13):
> >>>>
> >>>> Calcium hydroxide is building lime.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> European Standard EN197-1:
> >>>>
> >>>> Portland cement clinker is a hydraulic material which shall consist of at least two-thirds by mass of calcium silicates (3 CaO·SiO2 and 2 CaO·SiO2), the remainder consisting of aluminium- and iron-containing clinker phases and other compounds. The ratio of CaO to SiO2 shall not be less than 2.0. The magnesium oxide content (MgO) shall not exceed 5.0% by mass.
> >>>> So upto a third by weight of cement is other things than calcium silicates.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> (For some reason its not quoting your post.)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
__._,_.___
