Papercreters: [papercreters] Re: COMPRESSED BLOCKS- CINVA RAM FERNSLER BUILT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Forrest Charnock
<fpcharnock@...> wrote:
>
> At 08:21 AM 11/14/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >I was introduced to CEB - contracted to build a trade show and web
set up
> >for a $250K machine! Their point was to build 1 million blocks
for large
> >projects - then the machine was cost effective. The ram preasure
was 250K
> >- 1 block 15 seconds. The system worked just fine but was rebuilt
after 1
> >million blocks. Good business idea if you can defeat the mud house
> >image. I was then introduced to a series of smaller machines
that did
> >half blocks. This is not DIY! Finally the manual ram and DIY. 5-
10K
> >blocks needed for a house. Is possible if you are a serious DIY.
This
> >company was only interested in business. $12K machine was the DIY
step
> >they offered. I then computed the foundation cost - oops! The
walls were
> >only 20% of the cost of the house - oops! The numbers did not add
up
> >accept when the future utilities savings were discussed. The cost
savings
> >of the CEB block in the construction phase were overstated.
> >
> >I am assuming that the forming of papercrete does not require a
lot of
> >preasure to achieve form, density and imediate handling. CEB likes
a lot
> >of preasure. As an artist I work with large scale paper mache
press
> >projects. That is why I looked at papercrete. My wife looked at
> >papercrete as an outdoor paper mache. The little we have worked
with
> >papercrete - it is very close to paper mache. To press paper
mache you
> >need moderate preasure so you can improvise a system. Manual CEB
press
> >concept is fine for small projects - 12X24" thus far. The reason
we chose
> >to send CEB plans over seas instead of the machine was cost
factor. My
> >assumption was that metal workers are easy to find in 3rd world.
The 3rd
> >world metal workers are probably a lot more inventive that we
are. If
> >they have the concept they will adapt and build. I insisted that
the idea
> >be tested here. Two DIY welders built the CEB machine from
plans. Tested
> >in their backyard. 4 men mixed 5 yards of dirt/clay mix A picnic
was
> >arranged and 50 church families arrived to build blocks. The
missionary
> >directed all! Blocks were built with little effort. 3rd world
> >style. These families were the core supporters that backed the 1
year
> >project. 35 machine designs sent to Africa, South America and
Central
> >America. I have no idea what happened after that. No one
documented
> >beyond a few emails. But the missionary was very happy!
> >
> >Papercrete apeals to my tree hugger heart. It is only possible
when you
> >have free paper? Questions to missionaries have turned up zero
3rd world
> >interest because the paper resource is not valid for them? So
this is a
> >treehugger DIY for me. My original CEB house design calls for
5000 plus
> >12X14X3 blocks. The CEB block builder was reasonable. The
foundation
> >engineer was not. At every corner the assumption was I would buy
a
> >machine and become a block builder - no! One house and that is
it. I
> >joked about buying CEB at Home Depot and renting a small
> >machine. Papercrete? Can you rent a mixing machine or press?
Are blocks
> >shipable? CEB is not. DIY? The point for me is to get 5000 plus
> >blocks. Not design a machine or build a machine. My mission is
to build
> >my design
> >
> >
>
>
> It would seem there is a market for rental equipment. If someone
can
> design "idiot proof" mixers and presses for ceb and papercrete
there are
> people who would rent them. The problem I see is the market is so
small
> finding a cost effective advertising medium would be the problem,.
>
> Finding main stream uses for the material would create a base to
fund the
> growth. Dog houses seem a cool idea , particularly if you could
create a
> forming system to allow them to be shipped and quickly reassembled
by
> unskilled workers or the dog's humans. If boric acid will make it
fire
> resistant then a mixture with a very high paper content might work
very
> well to insulate pipe. if you could get enough pressure to force a
fairly
> dry mix into a pvc pipe that would encase the water pipe.
> On the website http://www.livinginpaper.com/ it says it can be
treated and
> uses as pond making material.material. In that case you
theoretically could
> simply lay a little slurry, lay the pipe., fill the trench and then
cover
> it with dirt. That would be very cost efficient if it actually held
up and
> you could convince enough people it would work.
> Rice hulls would be perfect if you could up come with a system to
install
> them . The paper would shrink to the pipe which is good and the
hulls
> would shrink very little at all , assuming you could pack them
tightly.
> It seems the people in the Western States are more receptive to the
idea
> and they are more spread out population wise so shipping blocks in
much of
> the west is cost prohibitive. An eighteen wheeler load of 15 lbs
blocks { I
> got that from http://www.livinginpaper.com/ for 10x4 x 14 blocks}
would be
> around 3000 blocks . Figuring a minimum charge of 400.00 , a short
run of
> less than 150 miles that is .13 cents a block assuming you have a
forklift
> on the other end. Delivering block within a couple hundred miles
is
> expensive but not a deal killer. All masonry is expensive to
deliver. One
> idea that sounds good to me is making large quantities of
papercrete with
> just paper and water + boric acid , let it dry, crush it and then
bag it.
> Then the customer or their contractor could add water,sand, clay
etc. and
> mix it in a common mortar or cement mixer and pour it into forms.
> Whether that would be cheaper than just using cellulose insulation
I do not
> know.
>
> I wish I knew a lo more about this but I will probably learn it the
way I
> seem o learn everything, hard slow , and expensively :}.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>
> >>----------
> >>
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> >>11/10/2008 7:53 AM
> >
>
Hi Pipe insulation is a good concept for pc up here we get anywhere
from -20c average but in jan,feb, it can get to -50c so it is
fesable.The oilfield up here will go for this if it can be presented
in a profesinal manner ,the other thing is vandilisom,we have had
several bombs set off at well sites in years gone by and if this will
absorb bullets also they will use this no sweat.These well sites are
very remote and is hard for security to keep an eye on all the roads
at one time so this is a fesable product for them if you can coat the
pipe where it comes out of the ground and to the compresser station.I
think some tests at the rifel range will be in the future to see how
thick you would need for protection of the pipe.They use steel
buildings now but building a pc building on site would be the key for
explosion profing these sites.We have alot of sour gas wells up here
so the danger is great for any familys close to any of these well
sites.A table an the next oil mans show is definatly in the
future.Well its time go plow snow now so have a great day,Clair