Papercreters: January 2009

Saturday, January 31, 2009

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

You gathered incorrectly. Actually I've been to Demming proper about 5 times that I can remember. Different times of the year too. I've lived for a short period of time in Tucson, AZ. I grew up in the desert in California, and am familiar with desert living. I've sweated and labored in one of the hottest deserts in the world. I prefer Deming to any of the other locales of south Arizona, New Mexico or west Texas for many reasons. The biggest reasons are the milder climate and the existence of good water in a decent thick aquifer and the prices of the properties and the posture for future growth at a slow but decent rate (rather than boom-bust). I see little reason to deflate other people's ideas here about where they want to live. Those things have always been and will always be subjective.

My reaction earlier was made on the premise that I'm the kind of guy who pretty much lives his life being direct about things. I state facts, I make honest pleas, project my intention, and am forthright in most every way. I am used to dealing with people who communicate as such rather than slip in through the back door or hit you sideways as a ruse to get someone to smile or get others to think you're snazzy. So I took what spaceman said to be direct. As an attempt to deflate my plan to make it sound undesireable to others, for some personal gain of some kind. Anyhow, perhaps I mistook this forum as a serious forum to discuss a serious topic kind of like in a way nerds and engineers relating tips and facts with each other. I just didn't see any real good reason to deflate someone else's ideas without cause to speak of.

Well whatever, there certainly is a lot of meat in here. I'm just planning to let go of this and move on. In fact I already did so until your comment.

Perry

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com> wrote:

Perry,
Spaceman is not trying to influence you in any way. He is just stating facts. I gather you have never been to Demming or Columbus. It is, uh remote. That is the point he is trying to make. Columbus does not offer much in creature comforts. But if that is what you want. heaf out there. 40 acres for 7K seems a little high for Columbus. If it is in the area I am thinking of it is north of town. There is a LOT of space out there and a bunch of it is for sale.
If that is what you want, go for it.

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Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Perry,
Spaceman is not trying to influence you in any way. He is just stating facts. I gather you have never been to Demming or Columbus. It is, uh remote. That is the point he is trying to make. Columbus does not offer much in creature comforts. But if that is what you want. heaf out there. 40 acres for 7K seems a little high for Columbus. If it is in the area I am thinking of it is north of town. There is a LOT of space out there and a bunch of it is for sale.
If that is what you want, go for it.

__._,_.___

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Friday, January 30, 2009

[papercreters] Re: Shredding CD's and adding to Papercrete

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "funmailforconnie"
<funmailforconnie@...> wrote:
>
> Ugh, what a waste! We sure could have used something like that, but I
> don't suppose any office document shredder would give or sell us
> something like that as that kind of defeats the purpose of their
> contract with those people. Darn!
>
I am sure the Document Shredding company would let you have the
shredded CD's at a reasonable price. The source I referred to in my
first post was willing to let me shred them but they didn't include
any sensitive information.

Dennis

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Re: [papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

My thoughts and factors to consider:

Many floors are not insulated on the bottom because the earth provides heat storage.

An earthen floor of road base is not a massive amount of thermal mass.

A papercrete floor is extremely problematic due to the drying problem previously mentioned, especially if you put it on top of a moisture barrier. If you insist on insulating the floor then buying rigid insulation is a lot more practical and a lot less labor intensive.

The issue of compactor vibrations affecting papercrete depend on how many inches of road base are being compacted. For many reasons papercrete floors are not the best choice for insulation purposes.

Road bases are not all created equal. One good article on using road bases for floors is the following:

http://www.networkearth.org/naturalbuilding/floor.html

Neal

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "joeglory425" <joe_r_richardson@hotmail.com>

Hi all,

I live in Northwest Illinois. It gets cold in the winter. I thought
it would be possible to have both a highly insulated floor and
incorporate massive amounts of thermal mass by having an earthen floor
on top of insulating papercrete.

I thought I'd first excavate out the area, and apply some road base.
I'd compact this down. The purpose of this layer is to discourage any
borrowing animals that may tunnel down and wreck havoc on my moisture
barrier. The next layer would be a few inches of sand, then moisture
barrier, and then a few more inches of sand to protect the moisture
barrier. On top of this would be a layer of papercrete for
insulation. On top of the papercrete would be the earthen floor
(presumably of road base). My concern is if I use a plate compactor to
compact the road base over the papercrete, the papercrete would not be
able to withstand it. Has anyone done any experiments of running a
compactor over pape rcrete? Would the vibrations simply vibrate it to
pieces or compact it?

Joseph in Illinois

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RE: [papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

Hi Joe,

You sound like you know what you’re doing, but just in case, make sure to drain, or daylight all that base. If you don’t, the whole thing will fill up with water. Drainage is Key, even more than insulation.

Janosh

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joeglory425
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:36 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

Hi all,

I live in Northwest Illinois. It gets cold in the winter. I thought
it would be possible to have both a highly insulated floor and
incorporate massive amounts of thermal mass by having an earthen floor
on top of insulating papercrete.

I thought I'd first excavate out the area, and apply some road base.
I'd compact this down. The purpose of this layer is to discourage any
borrowing animals that may tunnel down and wreck havoc on my moisture
barrier. The next layer would be a few inches of sand, then moisture
barrier, and then a few more inches of sand to protect the moisture
barrier. On top of this would be a layer of papercrete for
insulation. On top of the papercrete would be the earthen floor
(presumably of road base). My concern is if I use a plate compactor to
compact the road base over the papercrete, the papercrete would not be
able to withstand it. Has anyone done any experiments of running a
compactor over papercrete? Would the vibrations simply vibrate it to
pieces or compact it?

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

Hi all,

I live in Northwest Illinois. It gets cold in the winter. I thought
it would be possible to have both a highly insulated floor and
incorporate massive amounts of thermal mass by having an earthen floor
on top of insulating papercrete.

I thought I'd first excavate out the area, and apply some road base.
I'd compact this down. The purpose of this layer is to discourage any
borrowing animals that may tunnel down and wreck havoc on my moisture
barrier. The next layer would be a few inches of sand, then moisture
barrier, and then a few more inches of sand to protect the moisture
barrier. On top of this would be a layer of papercrete for
insulation. On top of the papercrete would be the earthen floor
(presumably of road base). My concern is if I use a plate compactor to
compact the road base over the papercrete, the papercrete would not be
able to withstand it. Has anyone done any experiments of running a
compactor over papercrete? Would the vibrations simply vibrate it to
pieces or compact it?

Joseph in Illinois

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[papercreters] Re: New guy

I certainly am not experienced in papercrete (yet) either, but I am
guessing that the shorter paper fibers are the smoother the mix would
be, which I feel would be good for stucco mixes. Just my two cents
worth.

Bob

" I operate a recycling collection and processing site. When making
paper,especially from recovered paper, some of the the paper fibers will
be too short to interlock in the the paper matrix and will settle out of
the mix. This is probably what bargnguy is referring to. A possible
caveat: the same quality that causes the short fiber paper waste to not
become part of the finished paper at the paper mill may also result in a
weaker pc. The longer the fibers, the stronger the finished product. If
used in a non-load bearing application it might be ok. I'm not an
experienced papercreter (yet) but there's my opinion, for what it's
worth."

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[papercreters] Papercrete Construction in Utah County, UT or Salt Lake County, UT

Does anyone know of papercrete constuction that has been done in
Utah County, UT or Salt Lake County, UT?

Thanks,
Victoria

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Thursday, January 29, 2009

[papercreters] Re: New guy

I operate a recycling collection and processing site. When making paper,especially from recovered paper, some of the the paper fibers will be too short to interlock in the the paper matrix and will settle out of the mix. This is probably what bargnguy is referring to. A possible caveat: the same quality that causes the short fiber paper waste to not become part of the finished paper at the paper mill may also result in a weaker pc. The longer the fibers, the stronger the finished product. If used in a non-load bearing application it might be ok. I'm not an experienced papercreter (yet) but there's my opinion, for what it's worth.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Rastra files

I just realized the Rastra files are very large, takes a while to
download. Both the Info and the Install.
Bob

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[papercreters] Re: Construction Question

Tomas, let me see if I am seeing this right. I think I understand you are going to build a 2x6 frame work, with 4' x 92 5/8 " openings ever 4 foot. This would allow you to secure your bottom plate to the floor (ICC 2006 code states it must be bolted no less than 12" from each end/joint and ever 4 foot) but so much for code if you are not building in any city limits.

Or are you going to build an entire wall, say for you shed 12' long on the sides and 16' long on the sides (by our city code, that is the largest out building you can build without a permit). And after you have made the 2x6 wall complete with a double top plate and a single sole plate, you would fill in with your 4' wide and 92 5/8" tall panels with groved ends (kind of like the ones in the Shelterworks folder). If you do this out of wood, I believe you could glue the tongue and grove ends together with wood glue, and then apply PC inside and out for a finished wall. I would use a KREG JIG to apply screws to the sides, tops and bottoms to hold better. I would like to see your results when your finished.

Good Luck

Bob

Hi Bob, Good questions. As far as joints I am think of a tongue and grove that would be actually part of the drying frame mold so that the panels dry in a shape that make them interlocking. Once in place one could come along with a bucket of PC perhaps a bit more portland rich and with a trowel complete the unions thus making the surface look like a uniform panel. As far as the the top plate for joist and rafters goes this would all be a wood frame. Runners along the floor and the plate would act to secure the PC panels in place. This is how I did it with EPS panels in my last home and it worked very well. The house even withstood a 6.2 earthquake 3 weeks ago and we were located only 2 miles away from the epicenter!!!! I hope this makes sense. I have done it with one medium and it just struck me that it could be done with PC panels. I will be working out the kinks in the next month with my shed. Hope this all makes sense. Any observations would be great! -Tomas

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[papercreters] New Information in the files section

I just uploaded two new folders into the files section. One is called
Shelterworks, it is a zip file to open it just double click and wait,
there are seven files inside that one, lots of information. The other
folder is called Rastra there are five files inside, there again lots of
good information.

Bob

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Construction Question

Hi Bob, Good questions. As far as joints I am think of a tongue and grove that would be actually part of the drying frame mold so that the panels dry in a shape that make them interlocking. Once in place one could come along with a bucket of PC perhaps a bit more portland rich and with a trowel complete the unions thus making the surface look like a uniform panel. As far as the the top plate for joist and rafters goes this would all be a wood frame. Runners along the floor and the plate would act to secure the PC panels in place. This is how I did it with EPS panels in my last home and it worked very well. The house even withstood a 6.2 earthquake 3 weeks ago and we were located only 2 miles away from the epicenter!!!! I hope this makes sense. I have done it with one medium and it just struck me that it could be done with PC panels. I will be working out the kinks in the next month with my shed. Hope this all makes sense. Any observations would be great! -Tomas

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Bob <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Bob <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Construction Question
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 6:58 PM

Tomas, I like your idea of light weight panel walls of PC. How would
you attach these each other and to the floor or slab and what about a
top plate for ceiling joist and rafters?

Hi Bob,
Just built a house in Costa Rica using pier and beam foundation and
although I had planned my light weight panel walled construction
before hand it struck me while building that PC wall panels would
have been perfect for the job (light weight, great r-factor, etc.). I
have not heard of PC panel construction mentioned yet in this group,
but for my next construction I am planning on using it. Basically I
am going to pre-make large PC panels approximately 8' by 4' by 5
inches wide and then place them into the frame of the home. I am
currently experimenting with panels of this size with a chicken wire
core and others with treated bamboo to give rigidity to the panels.
My roof will have a large over hang thus limiting the amount of
direct contact with rain. But your idea of piers I think would
greatly increase the viability of PC construction (while taking
advantage of it's light weight, etc.) thus eliminating some of the
hassles of foundation seepage, wicking, etc. prone to PC construction.
I am making a storage shed with this type of construction first here
in the Philly suburbs and hope to get it done by late Feb. depending
on weather.
Tomás from Philly

From: Bob <criswells.ok@ ...>
Subject: [papercreters] Construction Question
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 1:45 PM

My Question is; "Has anyone built a pier and beam foundation, at
least 24" out of the ground, top it with a treated 2x8 mud seal,
applied rim joist and floor joist of treated 2x8's then applied wire
mesh to the bottom of the floor joist after installing rough-in
plumbing, and then filling between the joist on top of the wire mesh
with papercrete, then installing a wood floor and complete the
structure with papercrete walls, topped with a 2x8 treated top plate
and finish off with truss rafters?"

Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: to: New guy

nazufani, I thought that was probably what was ment by short paper
fiber, but was not sure. I have been thinking about contacting a mobile
service company called "Shred-it" which goes all over to places like
banks.....etc and shreds their daily paper. I would think these people
would have tons of the stuff and just maybe would have to be paying to
dudump it some where. I am going to contact them and see if they would
like to dump it on my acreage.
Bob

hello there

short paper fiber is exactly what the name says:
paper fiber that is short....it is recycled paper/post consumer
in the paper industry there is an issue w/using
recycled paper for copier paper
there is more "dust" from recycled short paper fiber
which can cause more problems for the copier itself
maintenance etc.
however........i would guess if you are making a mash
for bricks or whatever....it should not be an issue

nazufani
>

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[papercreters] Re: Construction Question

Tomas, I like your idea of light weight panel walls of PC. How would
you attach these each other and to the floor or slab and what about a
top plate for ceiling joist and rafters?

Hi Bob,
Just built a house in Costa Rica using pier and beam foundation and
although I had planned my light weight panel walled construction
before hand it struck me while building that PC wall panels would
have been perfect for the job (light weight, great r-factor, etc.). I
have not heard of PC panel construction mentioned yet in this group,
but for my next construction I am planning on using it. Basically I
am going to pre-make large PC panels approximately 8' by 4' by 5
inches wide and then place them into the frame of the home. I am
currently experimenting with panels of this size with a chicken wire
core and others with treated bamboo to give rigidity to the panels.
My roof will have a large over hang thus limiting the amount of
direct contact with rain. But your idea of piers I think would
greatly increase the viability of PC construction (while taking
advantage of it's light weight, etc.) thus eliminating some of the
hassles of foundation seepage, wicking, etc. prone to PC construction.
I am making a storage shed with this type of construction first here
in the Philly suburbs and hope to get it done by late Feb. depending
on weather.
Tomás from Philly

From: Bob <criswells.ok@...>
Subject: [papercreters] Construction Question
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 1:45 PM

My Question is; "Has anyone built a pier and beam foundation, at
least 24" out of the ground, top it with a treated 2x8 mud seal,
applied rim joist and floor joist of treated 2x8's then applied wire
mesh to the bottom of the floor joist after installing rough-in
plumbing, and then filling between the joist on top of the wire mesh
with papercrete, then installing a wood floor and complete the
structure with papercrete walls, topped with a 2x8 treated top plate
and finish off with truss rafters?"

Bob

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[papercreters] to: New guy

hello there

short paper fiber is exactly what the name says:
paper fiber that is short....it is recycled paper/post consumer
in the paper industry there is an issue w/using
recycled paper for copier paper
there is more "dust" from recycled short paper fiber
which can cause more problems for the copier itself
maintenance etc.
however........i would guess if you are making a mash
for bricks or whatever....it should not be an issue

nazufani

------------------------------------

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Re: [papercreters] Construction Question

Hi Bob,
Just built a house in Costa Rica using pier and beam foundation and although I had planned my light weight panel walled construction before hand it struck me while building that PC wall panels would have been perfect for the job (light weight, great r-factor, etc.). I have not heard of PC panel construction mentioned yet in this group, but for my next construction I am planning on using it. Basically I am going to pre-make large PC panels approximately 8' by 4' by 5 inches wide and then place them into the frame of the home. I am currently experimenting with panels of this size with a chicken wire core and others with treated bamboo to give rigidity to the panels. My roof will have a large over hang thus limiting the amount of direct contact with rain. But your idea of piers I think would greatly increase the viability of PC construction (while taking advantage of it's light weight, etc.) thus eliminating some of the hassles of foundation seepage, wicking, etc. prone to PC construction.
I am making a storage shed with this type of construction first here in the Philly suburbs and hope to get it done by late Feb. depending on weather.
Tomás from Philly

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Bob <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Bob <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Construction Question
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 1:45 PM

My Question is; "Has anyone built a pier and beam foundation, at least
24" out of the ground, top it with a treated 2x8 mud seal, applied rim
joist and floor joist of treated 2x8's then applied wire mesh to the
bottom of the floor joist after installing rough-in plumbing, and then
filling between the joist on top of the wire mesh with papercrete, then
installing a wood floor and complete the structure with papercrete
walls, topped with a 2x8 treated top plate and finish off with truss
rafters?"

Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Construction Question

My Question is; "Has anyone built a pier and beam foundation, at least
24" out of the ground, top it with a treated 2x8 mud seal, applied rim
joist and floor joist of treated 2x8's then applied wire mesh to the
bottom of the floor joist after installing rough-in plumbing, and then
filling between the joist on top of the wire mesh with papercrete, then
installing a wood floor and complete the structure with papercrete
walls, topped with a 2x8 treated top plate and finish off with truss
rafters?"

Bob

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[papercreters] More Interesting Info

http://www.jerisinger.com/greenstar/MasonGreenstarOriginal/BankMeeting.wmv

http://www.jerisinger.com/greenstar/MasonGreenstarOriginal/masongreenstar.ppt

http://www.jerisinger.com/greenstar/MasonGreenstarOriginal/whatsgoingon.htm

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Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Sorry, it was meant to be funny, not to sting. I live in a similar area and love it. Your third paragraph is so far off that you would laugh if you knew me : )

Spaceman

Perry Way wrote:

Wow, your devil advocacy has a real bite to it. May I suggest that you are wrong about several things but then I don't care to be negative in return. Your real message herein is that you yourself are not interested. Okay fine.

By the way there are more than one main streets in Deming. There is a Walmart there. There are JOBS there, and plenty of growth planned for more JOBS with Homeland Security. That sheriff you're talking about has the support of his constituents and I might add is concerned about keeping the county safe from the problems associated to drug trafficing. So, in my opinion, that's not a negative at all that he looks long and hard at strangers.. that's his job! Oh, and the number of days above 100 degrees is less than El Paso, less than Las Cruces, less than Tucson, less than Phoenix.. in fact, it is mild in comparison to any metropolitan area within 6 to 8 hours or more away. Deming in comparison is a mild climate. I don't squabble over the wind, that can have positives. And lack of shade? Well, you plant trees for that.

Sounds to me like you're more interested in a major metropolitan area which all of its services and its high prices that ensure that you've got to be a player in the dog eat dog slavery so prevalent in 20th-21st Century Earth. Okay, that's fine. But don't undercut Deming. The general area has more agriculture there than anywhere else in the state. That alone may prove it to be of great importance in the ensuing years ahead.

Anyhow, its all subjective...

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

Hi Perry,

Let me play devil's advocate here. This is a very remote area in the
desert near Palomas, MX which is somewhat of a tourist attraction for
cheap pharmaceuticals and terra cotta flower pots. There is a very nice
pink restaurant there. Deming is a tiny town with one main street, not
much to offer except a couple of small grocery stores and a redneck
sheriff who doesn't like outsiders. It is about half way between El Paso
and Tucson, the closest cities of any size. Everything is expensive
because of the cost of shipping. Power poles right down the road could
take many thousands of dollars to extend to your property. The airstrip
is probably used for drug smuggling. The "seasonal creeks" are actually
arroyos that flood during the monsoon season thunderstorms and then are
dry sand the other ten months of the year. The wind blows almost all the
time. It is 110 in the shade in the summer, and the only shade is under
a rattlesnake's belly. Making decent money with 40 acres of desert is
not very likely - there is lots of desert around but nobody is making
any money from it. That $7000 is just the opening bid. If anyone is
interested in the property that could shoot up quickly. Unless you are
the only bidder you won't get it for $7k.

With all that, 40 acres is a lot of room for several houses and various
"projects". Remote may be the best thing as the economy gets worse.
There is plenty of sun and just about anything will grow here if you can
give it enough water, and shade the more sensitive plants from the
intense sun. Solar energy is plentiful and intense. Wind generators are
great. It is quiet enough to hear the tarantulas walking by, and the
coyotes yipping at the moon from miles away. The night sky is amazing. A
well already on the property is a big plus. The property taxes are very
low. The scenic Florida Mts are nearby and are great for hiking and
camping.

Spaceman

I am wrote:
> Hey everyone, I've just come across an excellent opportunity. I've
> spent hours today researching a trustee sale for a bankruptcy. It's
> a large 40 acre parcel nearby the City of the Sun in southwest New
> Mexico. It is within 5 miles of the city of Columbus and about 15 -
> 20 miles from Deming. There is good quality aquifer below the ground
> and a well already on the property! Electricity power poles are
> right down the road. There is an airstrip one mile away too. Homes
> in the area and seasonal creeks too. Let's see.. what else? Oh, and
> the sale will occur in two days. The opening bid is $7,000. I've
> got half that in cash today. Could scrounge around for more but not
> much more, in two days time. I'm looking for a partner or group of
> partners who want to build an intentional community oriented towards
> both papercrete homes as well as subsistence living. I've got some
> real good ideas on how to make decent money with a property of this
> size.
>
> Interested parties please email me directly at perryway at gmail dot
> com because I have many forums and places I am putting this
> information I may forget to check one forum, so please email me
> directly and let's see if we can't get something going for a steal of
> a deal.
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>

> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] SORRY ABOUT ALL THE POST OF THE SAME SUBJECT

http://www.jerisinger.com/greenstar/MasonGreenstarOriginal/stresstestvideo.wmv is the correct link, had to go to rich text to get it right.

Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: New guy

In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "bargnguy" <bargnguy@...> wrote:

This looks like a great place to learn. I've been looking at
papercrete for a few years now. I've stumbled upon a supply of short
fiber paper waste. I've made a few test blocks and it seems like it
will work well. Does anyone here have any experience using it?

WHAT IS SHORT FIBER PAPER WASTE?

BOB

------------------------------------

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Wednesday, January 28, 2009

[papercreters] Interesting Video

This is a video of Mason Greenstar Blox with buyers and bankers
http://www.jerisinger.com/greenstar/MasonGreenstarOriginal/stresstestvid
eo.wmv

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Blox

This is a very interesting video for the bankers and buyers. Check it
out
http://www.jerisinger.com/greenstar/MasonGreenstarOriginal/stresstestvid
eo.wmv

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] New guy

This looks like a great place to learn. I've been looking at papercrete
for a few years now. I've stumbled upon a supply of short fiber paper
waste. I've made a few test blocks and it seems like it will work well.
Does anyone here have any experience using it?

------------------------------------

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

I'm sure you can get it shredded from whomever the recyclers are selling it to, but I'm also sure that it would cost more.

Jerry

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:04 PM

That's too bad, but I suppose that's to be expected.

Greg

From: Jerry Fant <jerryfant@verizon. net>
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:48:45 PM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

From what I have seen of the bales I will have to part it myself.

Jerry

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

Hey Jerry,

When you get the cardboard and paper from the recycyling plant, is it already shredded, or do you have to do that part yourself?

Greg

From: "jerryfant@verizon. net" <jerryfant@verizon. net>
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:19:20 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

Mark,

It looks like when I add my cost together which is Portland cement and
sand to the mix I am getting about 8.7 cents per cubic foot or $2.35
per cubic yard. I am not counting water since I am on a well in
Central Texas. I have been looking at buying cardboard and paper from
a local recyling center in San Marcos, this is usually around $50 -
$150 per 1800 pounds depending on the going rate of paper. Not sure
yet how far 1800 pounds of paper will go yet???

Jerry

> Hi all,
> I've followed this forum for a while and found it very informative
> as well as interesting. Does anyone have a ballpark way of estimating
> the material cost per cubic foot/cubic yard to make your own
> papercrete - assuming you can get the paper [and water] for free? I
> have a structure I want to put up where I intend to use stuccoed
> papercrete as a non load-bearing infill within a post&beam supported
> roof. I am trying to come up with some cost estimates compared to
> other methods of construction. Maybe this info is on site somewhere,
> but I didn't see it. Thanks!
> MarkC
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

That's too bad, but I suppose that's to be expected.

Greg

From: Jerry Fant <jerryfant@verizon.net>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:48:45 PM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

From what I have seen of the bales I will have to part it myself.

Jerry

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

Hey Jerry,

When you get the cardboard and paper from the recycyling plant, is it already shredded, or do you have to do that part yourself?

Greg

From: "jerryfant@verizon. net" <jerryfant@verizon. net>
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:19:20 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

Mark,

It looks like when I add my cost together which is Portland cement and
sand to the mix I am getting about 8.7 cents per cubic foot or $2.35
per cubic yard. I am not counting water since I am on a well in
Central Texas. I have been looking at buying cardboard and paper from
a local recyling center in San Marcos, this is usually around $50 -
$150 per 1800 pounds depending on the going rate of paper. Not sure
yet how far 1800 pounds of paper will go yet???

Jerry

> Hi all,
> I've followed this forum for a while and found it very informative
> as well as interesting. Does anyone have a ballpark way of estimating
> the material cost per cubic foot/cubic yard to make your own
> papercrete - assuming you can get the paper [and water] for free? I
> have a structure I want to put up where I intend to use stuccoed
> papercrete as a non load-bearing infill within a post&beam supported
> roof. I am trying to come up with some cost estimates compared to
> other methods of construction. Maybe this info is on site somewhere,
> but I didn't see it. Thanks!
> MarkC
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Wow, your devil advocacy has a real bite to it. May I suggest that you are wrong about several things but then I don't care to be negative in return. Your real message herein is that you yourself are not interested. Okay fine.

By the way there are more than one main streets in Deming. There is a Walmart there. There are JOBS there, and plenty of growth planned for more JOBS with Homeland Security. That sheriff you're talking about has the support of his constituents and I might add is concerned about keeping the county safe from the problems associated to drug trafficing. So, in my opinion, that's not a negative at all that he looks long and hard at strangers.. that's his job! Oh, and the number of days above 100 degrees is less than El Paso, less than Las Cruces, less than Tucson, less than Phoenix.. in fact, it is mild in comparison to any metropolitan area within 6 to 8 hours or more away. Deming in comparison is a mild climate. I don't squabble over the wind, that can have positives. And lack of shade? Well, you plant trees for that.

Sounds to me like you're more interested in a major metropolitan area which all of its services and its high prices that ensure that you've got to be a player in the dog eat dog slavery so prevalent in 20th-21st Century Earth. Okay, that's fine. But don't undercut Deming. The general area has more agriculture there than anywhere else in the state. That alone may prove it to be of great importance in the ensuing years ahead.

Anyhow, its all subjective...

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

Hi Perry,

Let me play devil's advocate here. This is a very remote area in the
desert near Palomas, MX which is somewhat of a tourist attraction for
cheap pharmaceuticals and terra cotta flower pots. There is a very nice
pink restaurant there. Deming is a tiny town with one main street, not
much to offer except a couple of small grocery stores and a redneck
sheriff who doesn't like outsiders. It is about half way between El Paso
and Tucson, the closest cities of any size. Everything is expensive
because of the cost of shipping. Power poles right down the road could
take many thousands of dollars to extend to your property. The airstrip
is probably used for drug smuggling. The "seasonal creeks" are actually
arroyos that flood during the monsoon season thunderstorms and then are
dry sand the other ten months of the year. The wind blows almost all the
time. It is 110 in the shade in the summer, and the only shade is under
a rattlesnake's belly. Making decent money with 40 acres of desert is
not very likely - there is lots of desert around but nobody is making
any money from it. That $7000 is just the opening bid. If anyone is
interested in the property that could shoot up quickly. Unless you are
the only bidder you won't get it for $7k.

With all that, 40 acres is a lot of room for several houses and various
"projects". Remote may be the best thing as the economy gets worse.
There is plenty of sun and just about anything will grow here if you can
give it enough water, and shade the more sensitive plants from the
intense sun. Solar energy is plentiful and intense. Wind generators are
great. It is quiet enough to hear the tarantulas walking by, and the
coyotes yipping at the moon from miles away. The night sky is amazing. A
well already on the property is a big plus. The property taxes are very
low. The scenic Florida Mts are nearby and are great for hiking and
camping.

Spaceman

I am wrote:
> Hey everyone, I've just come across an excellent opportunity. I've
> spent hours today researching a trustee sale for a bankruptcy. It's
> a large 40 acre parcel nearby the City of the Sun in southwest New
> Mexico. It is within 5 miles of the city of Columbus and about 15 -
> 20 miles from Deming. There is good quality aquifer below the ground
> and a well already on the property! Electricity power poles are
> right down the road. There is an airstrip one mile away too. Homes
> in the area and seasonal creeks too. Let's see.. what else? Oh, and
> the sale will occur in two days. The opening bid is $7,000. I've
> got half that in cash today. Could scrounge around for more but not
> much more, in two days time. I'm looking for a partner or group of
> partners who want to build an intentional community oriented towards
> both papercrete homes as well as subsistence living. I've got some
> real good ideas on how to make decent money with a property of this
> size.
>
> Interested parties please email me directly at perryway at gmail dot
> com because I have many forums and places I am putting this
> information I may forget to check one forum, so please email me
> directly and let's see if we can't get something going for a steal of
> a deal.
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

From what I have seen of the bales I will have to part it myself.

Jerry

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

Hey Jerry,

When you get the cardboard and paper from the recycyling plant, is it already shredded, or do you have to do that part yourself?

Greg

From: "jerryfant@verizon. net" <jerryfant@verizon. net>
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:19:20 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

Mark,

It looks like when I add my cost together which is Portland cement and
sand to the mix I am getting about 8.7 cents per cubic foot or $2.35
per cubic yard. I am not counting water since I am on a well in
Central Texas. I have been looking at buying cardboard and paper from
a local recyling center in San Marcos, this is usually around $50 -
$150 per 1800 pounds depending on the going rate of paper. Not sure
yet how far 1800 pounds of paper will go yet???

Jerry

> Hi all,
> I've followed this forum for a while and found it very informative
> as well as interesting. Does anyone have a ballpark way of estimating
> the material cost per cubic foot/cubic yard to make your own
> papercrete - assuming you can get the paper [and water] for free? I
> have a structure I want to put up where I intend to use stuccoed
> papercrete as a non load-bearing infill within a post&beam supported
> roof. I am trying to come up with some cost estimates compared to
> other methods of construction. Maybe this info is on site somewhere,
> but I didn't see it. Thanks!
> MarkC
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

You just about described our area up in the Sierra Nevadas and we are doing intentional community!! We have three owners and are commited to building green and living sustainably. Water is the most impartant thing!! Don't give up.

--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 9:05 AM

Hi Perry,

Let me play devil's advocate here. This is a very remote area in the
desert near Palomas, MX which is somewhat of a tourist attraction for
cheap pharmaceuticals and terra cotta flower pots. There is a very nice
pink restaurant there. Deming is a tiny town with one main street, not
much to offer except a couple of small grocery stores and a redneck
sheriff who doesn't like outsiders. It is about half way between El Paso
and Tucson, the closest cities of any size. Everything is expensive
because of the cost of shipping. Power poles right down the road could
take many thousands of dollars to extend to your property. The airstrip
is probably used for drug smuggling. The "seasonal creeks" are actually
arroyos that flood during the monsoon season thunderstorms and then are
dry sand the other ten months of the year. The wind blows almost all the
time. It is 110 in the shade in the summer, and the only shade is under
a rattlesnake' s belly. Making decent money with 40 acres of desert is
not very likely - there is lots of desert around but nobody is making
any money from it. That $7000 is just the opening bid. If anyone is
interested in the property that could shoot up quickly. Unless you are
the only bidder you won't get it for $7k.

With all that, 40 acres is a lot of room for several houses and various
"projects". Remote may be the best thing as the economy gets worse.
There is plenty of sun and just about anything will grow here if you can
give it enough water, and shade the more sensitive plants from the
intense sun. Solar energy is plentiful and intense. Wind generators are
great. It is quiet enough to hear the tarantulas walking by, and the
coyotes yipping at the moon from miles away. The night sky is amazing. A
well already on the property is a big plus. The property taxes are very
low. The scenic Florida Mts are nearby and are great for hiking and
camping.

Spaceman

I am wrote:
> Hey everyone, I've just come across an excellent opportunity. I've
> spent hours today researching a trustee sale for a bankruptcy. It's
> a large 40 acre parcel nearby the City of the Sun in southwest New
> Mexico. It is within 5 miles of the city of Columbus and about 15 -
> 20 miles from Deming. There is good quality aquifer below the ground
> and a well already on the property! Electricity power poles are
> right down the road. There is an airstrip one mile away too. Homes
> in the area and seasonal creeks too. Let's see.. what else? Oh, and
> the sale will occur in two days. The opening bid is $7,000. I've
> got half that in cash today. Could scrounge around for more but not
> much more, in two days time. I'm looking for a partner or group of
> partners who want to build an intentional community oriented towards
> both papercrete homes as well as subsistence living. I've got some
> real good ideas on how to make decent money with a property of this
> size.
>
> Interested parties please email me directly at perryway at gmail dot
> com because I have many forums and places I am putting this
> information I may forget to check one forum, so please email me
> directly and let's see if we can't get something going for a steal of
> a deal.
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Hi Perry,

Let me play devil's advocate here. This is a very remote area in the
desert near Palomas, MX which is somewhat of a tourist attraction for
cheap pharmaceuticals and terra cotta flower pots. There is a very nice
pink restaurant there. Deming is a tiny town with one main street, not
much to offer except a couple of small grocery stores and a redneck
sheriff who doesn't like outsiders. It is about half way between El Paso
and Tucson, the closest cities of any size. Everything is expensive
because of the cost of shipping. Power poles right down the road could
take many thousands of dollars to extend to your property. The airstrip
is probably used for drug smuggling. The "seasonal creeks" are actually
arroyos that flood during the monsoon season thunderstorms and then are
dry sand the other ten months of the year. The wind blows almost all the
time. It is 110 in the shade in the summer, and the only shade is under
a rattlesnake's belly. Making decent money with 40 acres of desert is
not very likely - there is lots of desert around but nobody is making
any money from it. That $7000 is just the opening bid. If anyone is
interested in the property that could shoot up quickly. Unless you are
the only bidder you won't get it for $7k.

With all that, 40 acres is a lot of room for several houses and various
"projects". Remote may be the best thing as the economy gets worse.
There is plenty of sun and just about anything will grow here if you can
give it enough water, and shade the more sensitive plants from the
intense sun. Solar energy is plentiful and intense. Wind generators are
great. It is quiet enough to hear the tarantulas walking by, and the
coyotes yipping at the moon from miles away. The night sky is amazing. A
well already on the property is a big plus. The property taxes are very
low. The scenic Florida Mts are nearby and are great for hiking and
camping.

Spaceman

I am wrote:
> Hey everyone, I've just come across an excellent opportunity. I've
> spent hours today researching a trustee sale for a bankruptcy. It's
> a large 40 acre parcel nearby the City of the Sun in southwest New
> Mexico. It is within 5 miles of the city of Columbus and about 15 -
> 20 miles from Deming. There is good quality aquifer below the ground
> and a well already on the property! Electricity power poles are
> right down the road. There is an airstrip one mile away too. Homes
> in the area and seasonal creeks too. Let's see.. what else? Oh, and
> the sale will occur in two days. The opening bid is $7,000. I've
> got half that in cash today. Could scrounge around for more but not
> much more, in two days time. I'm looking for a partner or group of
> partners who want to build an intentional community oriented towards
> both papercrete homes as well as subsistence living. I've got some
> real good ideas on how to make decent money with a property of this
> size.
>
> Interested parties please email me directly at perryway at gmail dot
> com because I have many forums and places I am putting this
> information I may forget to check one forum, so please email me
> directly and let's see if we can't get something going for a steal of
> a deal.
>
>
> Perry
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
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mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

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Papercreters

Saturday, January 31, 2009

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Friday, January 30, 2009

[papercreters] Re: Shredding CD's and adding to Papercrete

Re: [papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

RE: [papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

[papercreters] Using papercrete under earthen floor

[papercreters] Re: New guy

[papercreters] Papercrete Construction in Utah County, UT or Salt Lake County, UT

Thursday, January 29, 2009

[papercreters] Re: New guy

[papercreters] Rastra files

[papercreters] Re: Construction Question

[papercreters] New Information in the files section

Re: [papercreters] Re: Construction Question

[papercreters] Re: to: New guy

[papercreters] Re: Construction Question

[papercreters] to: New guy

Re: [papercreters] Construction Question

[papercreters] Construction Question

[papercreters] More Interesting Info

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

[papercreters] SORRY ABOUT ALL THE POST OF THE SAME SUBJECT

[papercreters] Re: New guy

Wednesday, January 28, 2009

[papercreters] Interesting Video

[papercreters] Blox

[papercreters] New guy

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete cost estimating

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

Re: [papercreters] Anyone interested in an intentional community near the City of the Sun?

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