[papercreters] Progress pictures

www.starship-enterprises.net/Domes/2vtoppent/assembly/

This slideshow needs java enabled, starts in 3D crosseyed view but can be set to any of several formats including 2D like "normal" photos.

Got the new frame and covering papercrete triangles installed this morning on the top pent. Thunderstorm blew up in the afternoon, but it was dry and cozy inside. Even with the V gaps between the triangles, no rain made it past the papercrete.

In the next few days I'll put a cover a couple of inches thick from heavy papercrete keyed into the grooves between the triangles. I anticipate a warmer winter this year without all that airflow out the top of my dome.

--  spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.

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[papercreters] Re: Outdoor papercrete planters

One problem I see with the site, http://www.gardenguides.com/85041-make-concrete-perlite-flower-pots.html,  is that they refer to "CEMENT" as concrete, it is plan to see that their mixture is with cement and not "CONCRETE" it would not be like a 'MUD PIE" if it were concrete, which contains cement, sand and stones'.

Otherwise I believe their mixture would work very well, even if you replaced one of the ingredients with paper pulp.

BTB

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
> You might want to look at this site > BTB
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "proctorlogic" proctorlogic@ wrote:
> >
> > Greetings, all --
> >
> > I am new to this group, and eager to get your individual and collective advice on the best method(s) for creating outdoor papercrete planters for use in the U.S. Northeast (i.e., where they must withstand repeated freezing and thawing).
> >
> > Anyone out there have some tips for me before I launch into full-scale production?
> >
> > - Jeremy, Manhattan
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: Outdoor papercrete planters

You might want to look at this site http://www.gardenguides.com/85041-make-concrete-perlite-flower-pots.html
BTB

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "proctorlogic" <proctorlogic@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all --
>
> I am new to this group, and eager to get your individual and collective advice on the best method(s) for creating outdoor papercrete planters for use in the U.S. Northeast (i.e., where they must withstand repeated freezing and thawing).
>
> Anyone out there have some tips for me before I launch into full-scale production?
>
> - Jeremy, Manhattan
>

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof

If you're describing a 2 leaf cavity wall there, no vb is needed, the cavity acts similarly to one.

NT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "IPMNV" <ipmnv@...> wrote:
>
> I have been following this thread about vapor barrier and have the following
> question;
>
>
>
> There are four areas to which the vapor barrier can be attached. Described
> as follows which is the correct most effective location?
>
>
>
> Inside of inner wall?
>
>
>
> Outside of inner wall?
>
>
>
> Inside of outer wall?
>
>
>
> Outside of outer wall?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Quentin-E: Thornton
>
>
>
> From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of countryatheartok
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:56 AM
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 30 Yearss ago when I built my 2100 sq ft house, I put a 6 mill vapor
> barrier through out the entire interior of all exterior walls and I
> also did the entire house ceiling. To me at the time the ceiling was
> more important than the walls. It has proved to be a wise decision after
> all these years. I have never had a sweating problem with walls, windows
> or doors, and it gets quite cold here in the winter, sometimes well
> below -zero. I don't know if it is necessary with PC or not.
>
> BTB
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "prrr.t21@" <prrr@> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of buildings in general rather than papercrete
> specifically...
> >
> > In a damp climate its necessary to use a vapour barrier on the
> interior side of walls, otherwise as damp interior air cools on its way
> outward it condenses, and water builds up.
> >
> > On occasion people add a vb on the outside to damp walls in the
> mistaken belief it'll stop rain soaking in. It may do, but it also
> prevents evaporation, resulting in greater dampness in the wall.
> >
> > Warm interior air holds much more water vapour than even wet outdoor
> air in winter, hence the dew point is reached when it cools. The vapour
> flow in housing walls is from interior out, not the other way. (If it
> were the other way, houses would flood.)
> >
> >
> > Another damp problem happens when a wall has insufficient insulation
> to prevent condensation occurring on the interior surface. Only a very
> small amount of insulation is needed to stop this though, at least here
> down to -20C, so I doubt that would be an issue with papercrete, unless
> you're building somewhere extremely cold.
> >
> >
> > NT
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com> , "ndgogiraf" ndgogiraf@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I think it depends on the outside temperature, inside humidity and
> insulation of the roof. Does it get really cold there?
> > >
> > > If it is very cold outside and cold enough on the inside layer of
> the roof vapor barrier such that the humidity inside will condense on
> that barrier,
> > > AND
> > > there is not enough papercrete to insulate the inside air humidity
> from this vapore barier so that the temperature differenc of the moist
> air when it finally reaches the barrier through the papercrete is ...
> something about the dew point.
> > >
> > > Basicly, if you have enough insulation (papercrete or whatever)
> between the inside of the room and the outside vapour barrier, so that
> by the time the moist air reaches the vapore barrier through the
> papercrete , as it moves through it changes it's ability to hold water
> so it will change it's tendency to condense on colder surfaces, and you
> will be fine. However if the insulation between the inside warm humid
> air and the cold inside of the roof is not enough there may be
> condensation (the dew point will be reached?) and mold may form on the
> innermost areas of the paper crete....
> > >
> > > I think.
> > >
> > > Was hoping some one who knew this stuff better than me was going to
> reply.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com> , Pack McKibben <gakayaker@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I need some input on papercrete roof's.
> > > > I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water
> > > > proofing. My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked
> > > > to one degree or another over the years
> > > > ( http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse#
> <http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse> )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"
> > > >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC
> <http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+habitat&pri
> ntsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book_result
> &ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false>
> &dq=latex+concrete+habitat&\
> printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book\
> _result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House
> papercrete roof. No
> > > > more leaks!
> > > >
> > > > My question is....What do y'all think? Do you think the papercrete
> won't breath
> > > > anymore
> > > > and I'm looking at future problems? The LC roof has been on for
> three months
> > > > and I
> > > > don't see any mold.
> > > >
> > > > Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it? What
> problems did you
> > > > have?
> > > > if any
> > > > PackyMcK
> > > > PackyMcK
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof

For conventional construction, the inside of the inner wall is the only place for a vapor barrier, and is specified in building codes.
There is no other place for it.
The outside skin need only shed the water, it need not stop the vapor.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "IPMNV" <ipmnv@...> wrote:
>
> I have been following this thread about vapor barrier and have the following
> question;
>
>
>
> There are four areas to which the vapor barrier can be attached. Described
> as follows which is the correct most effective location?
>
>
>
> Inside of inner wall?
>
>
>
> Outside of inner wall?
>
>
>
> Inside of outer wall?
>
>
>
> Outside of outer wall?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Quentin-E: Thornton
>
>

------------------------------------

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Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Roof

Sounds like a good idea. Atlanta has been hot and dry this Summer

 

Nameste
Odin

---

From: Pack McKibben <gakayaker@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 10:25:25 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete Roof

 

I appreciate the input!  

I think to be on the safe side I'll design/build an air space

between the papercrete and Latex Concrete roof, with a vapor barrier on the warm

side of the papercrete.  The hobbit house shed is not heated or cooled in any way so

I didn't worry about the dew point being reached inside the papercrete.  My next project

will be a papercrete roof on my home addition and I want to make sure I "do the right thing"

as far as the roof goes.  I live in the Southern USA.  HOT summers, mild winters, rain = 52" per

year.

Is anyone living UNDER a papercrete roof right now? How was it constructed? Vapor 

barrier?  How thick is the papercrete roof?  What mix (paper/cement only; no sand) was used?   
thanks again,

PackyMcK

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[papercreters] Papercrete Roof

I appreciate the input!  

I think to be on the safe side I'll design/build an air space

between the papercrete and Latex Concrete roof, with a vapor barrier on the warm

side of the papercrete.  The hobbit house shed is not heated or cooled in any way so

I didn't worry about the dew point being reached inside the papercrete.  My next project

will be a papercrete roof on my home addition and I want to make sure I "do the right thing"

as far as the roof goes.  I live in the Southern USA.  HOT summers, mild winters, rain = 52" per

year.

Is anyone living UNDER a papercrete roof right now? How was it constructed? Vapor 

barrier?  How thick is the papercrete roof?  What mix (paper/cement only; no sand) was used?   
thanks again,

PackyMcK

__._,_.___

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I have been following this thread about vapor barrier and have the following question;

 

There are four areas to which the vapor barrier can be attached. Described as follows which is the correct most effective location?

 

Inside of inner wall?

 

Outside of inner wall?

 

Inside of outer wall?

 

Outside of outer wall?

Thanks,

 

Quentin-E: Thornton

 

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of countryatheartok
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:56 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof

 

 

30 Yearss ago when I built my 2100 sq ft house, I put a 6 mill vapor
barrier through out the entire interior of all exterior walls and I
also did the entire house ceiling. To me at the time the ceiling was
more important than the walls. It has proved to be a wise decision after
all these years. I have never had a sweating problem with walls, windows
or doors, and it gets quite cold here in the winter, sometimes well
below -zero. I don't know if it is necessary with PC or not.

BTB

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@..." <prrr@...> wrote:
>
> Speaking of buildings in general rather than papercrete
specifically...
>
> In a damp climate its necessary to use a vapour barrier on the
interior side of walls, otherwise as damp interior air cools on its way
outward it condenses, and water builds up.
>
> On occasion people add a vb on the outside to damp walls in the
mistaken belief it'll stop rain soaking in. It may do, but it also
prevents evaporation, resulting in greater dampness in the wall.
>
> Warm interior air holds much more water vapour than even wet outdoor
air in winter, hence the dew point is reached when it cools. The vapour
flow in housing walls is from interior out, not the other way. (If it
were the other way, houses would flood.)
>
>
> Another damp problem happens when a wall has insufficient insulation
to prevent condensation occurring on the interior surface. Only a very
small amount of insulation is needed to stop this though, at least here
down to -20C, so I doubt that would be an issue with papercrete, unless
you're building somewhere extremely cold.
>
>
> NT
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ndgogiraf" ndgogiraf@ wrote:
> >
> > I think it depends on the outside temperature, inside humidity and
insulation of the roof. Does it get really cold there?
> >
> > If it is very cold outside and cold enough on the inside layer of
the roof vapor barrier such that the humidity inside will condense on
that barrier,
> > AND
> > there is not enough papercrete to insulate the inside air humidity
from this vapore barier so that the temperature differenc of the moist
air when it finally reaches the barrier through the papercrete is ...
something about the dew point.
> >
> > Basicly, if you have enough insulation (papercrete or whatever)
between the inside of the room and the outside vapour barrier, so that
by the time the moist air reaches the vapore barrier through the
papercrete , as it moves through it changes it's ability to hold water
so it will change it's tendency to condense on colder surfaces, and you
will be fine. However if the insulation between the inside warm humid
air and the cold inside of the roof is not enough there may be
condensation (the dew point will be reached?) and mold may form on the
innermost areas of the paper crete....
> >
> > I think.
> >
> > Was hoping some one who knew this stuff better than me was going to
reply.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pack McKibben <gakayaker@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > I need some input on papercrete roof's.
> > > I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water
> > > proofing. My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked
> > > to one degree or another over the years
> > > ( http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse# )
> > >
> > >
> > > After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"
> > >
http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+habitat&\
printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book\
_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
> > >
> > >
> > > I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House
papercrete roof. No
> > > more leaks!
> > >
> > > My question is....What do y'all think? Do you think the papercrete
won't breath
> > > anymore
> > > and I'm looking at future problems? The LC roof has been on for
three months
> > > and I
> > > don't see any mold.
> > >
> > > Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it? What
problems did you
> > > have?
> > > if any
> > > PackyMcK
> > > PackyMcK
> > >
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof

30 Yearss ago when I built my 2100 sq ft house, I put a 6 mill vapor
barrier through out the entire interior of all exterior walls and I
also did the entire house ceiling. To me at the time the ceiling was
more important than the walls. It has proved to be a wise decision after
all these years. I have never had a sweating problem with walls, windows
or doors, and it gets quite cold here in the winter, sometimes well
below -zero. I don't know if it is necessary with PC or not.

BTB

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@..." <prrr@...> wrote:
>
> Speaking of buildings in general rather than papercrete
specifically...
>
> In a damp climate its necessary to use a vapour barrier on the
interior side of walls, otherwise as damp interior air cools on its way
outward it condenses, and water builds up.
>
> On occasion people add a vb on the outside to damp walls in the
mistaken belief it'll stop rain soaking in. It may do, but it also
prevents evaporation, resulting in greater dampness in the wall.
>
> Warm interior air holds much more water vapour than even wet outdoor
air in winter, hence the dew point is reached when it cools. The vapour
flow in housing walls is from interior out, not the other way. (If it
were the other way, houses would flood.)
>
>
> Another damp problem happens when a wall has insufficient insulation
to prevent condensation occurring on the interior surface. Only a very
small amount of insulation is needed to stop this though, at least here
down to -20C, so I doubt that would be an issue with papercrete, unless
you're building somewhere extremely cold.
>
>
> NT
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ndgogiraf" ndgogiraf@ wrote:
> >
> > I think it depends on the outside temperature, inside humidity and
insulation of the roof. Does it get really cold there?
> >
> > If it is very cold outside and cold enough on the inside layer of
the roof vapor barrier such that the humidity inside will condense on
that barrier,
> > AND
> > there is not enough papercrete to insulate the inside air humidity
from this vapore barier so that the temperature differenc of the moist
air when it finally reaches the barrier through the papercrete is ...
something about the dew point.
> >
> > Basicly, if you have enough insulation (papercrete or whatever)
between the inside of the room and the outside vapour barrier, so that
by the time the moist air reaches the vapore barrier through the
papercrete , as it moves through it changes it's ability to hold water
so it will change it's tendency to condense on colder surfaces, and you
will be fine. However if the insulation between the inside warm humid
air and the cold inside of the roof is not enough there may be
condensation (the dew point will be reached?) and mold may form on the
innermost areas of the paper crete....
> >
> > I think.
> >
> > Was hoping some one who knew this stuff better than me was going to
reply.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pack McKibben <gakayaker@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > I need some input on papercrete roof's.
> > > I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water
> > > proofing. My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked
> > > to one degree or another over the years
> > > ( http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse# )
> > >
> > >
> > > After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"
> > >
http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+habitat&\
printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book\
_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
> > >
> > >
> > > I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House
papercrete roof. No
> > > more leaks!
> > >
> > > My question is....What do y'all think? Do you think the papercrete
won't breath
> > > anymore
> > > and I'm looking at future problems? The LC roof has been on for
three months
> > > and I
> > > don't see any mold.
> > >
> > > Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it? What
problems did you
> > > have?
> > > if any
> > > PackyMcK
> > > PackyMcK
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Outdoor papercrete planters

Greetings, all --

I am new to this group, and eager to get your individual and collective advice on the best method(s) for creating outdoor papercrete planters for use in the U.S. Northeast (i.e., where they must withstand repeated freezing and thawing).

Anyone out there have some tips for me before I launch into full-scale production?

- Jeremy, Manhattan

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof

Speaking of buildings in general rather than papercrete specifically...

In a damp climate its necessary to use a vapour barrier on the interior side of walls, otherwise as damp interior air cools on its way outward it condenses, and water builds up.

On occasion people add a vb on the outside to damp walls in the mistaken belief it'll stop rain soaking in. It may do, but it also prevents evaporation, resulting in greater dampness in the wall.

Warm interior air holds much more water vapour than even wet outdoor air in winter, hence the dew point is reached when it cools. The vapour flow in housing walls is from interior out, not the other way. (If it were the other way, houses would flood.)

Another damp problem happens when a wall has insufficient insulation to prevent condensation occurring on the interior surface. Only a very small amount of insulation is needed to stop this though, at least here down to -20C, so I doubt that would be an issue with papercrete, unless you're building somewhere extremely cold.

NT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ndgogiraf" <ndgogiraf@...> wrote:
>
> I think it depends on the outside temperature, inside humidity and insulation of the roof. Does it get really cold there?
>
> If it is very cold outside and cold enough on the inside layer of the roof vapor barrier such that the humidity inside will condense on that barrier,
> AND
> there is not enough papercrete to insulate the inside air humidity from this vapore barier so that the temperature differenc of the moist air when it finally reaches the barrier through the papercrete is ... something about the dew point.
>
> Basicly, if you have enough insulation (papercrete or whatever) between the inside of the room and the outside vapour barrier, so that by the time the moist air reaches the vapore barrier through the papercrete , as it moves through it changes it's ability to hold water so it will change it's tendency to condense on colder surfaces, and you will be fine. However if the insulation between the inside warm humid air and the cold inside of the roof is not enough there may be condensation (the dew point will be reached?) and mold may form on the innermost areas of the paper crete....
>
> I think.
>
> Was hoping some one who knew this stuff better than me was going to reply.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pack McKibben <gakayaker@> wrote:
> >
> > I need some input on papercrete roof's.
> > I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water
> > proofing. My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked
> > to one degree or another over the years
> > ( http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse# )
> >
> >
> > After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"
> > http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+habitat&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
> >
> >
> > I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House papercrete roof. No
> > more leaks!
> >
> > My question is....What do y'all think? Do you think the papercrete won't breath
> > anymore
> > and I'm looking at future problems? The LC roof has been on for three months
> > and I
> > don't see any mold.
> >
> > Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it? What problems did you
> > have?
> > if any
> > PackyMcK
> > PackyMcK
> >
>

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Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Roof

In order for mold to flourish the moisture content has to be above 18% or so. While this is somewhat tied to air humidity because your pc will absorb water vapor from the air, it is hard to raise the content to that high number without directly pouring water onto unsealed areas. You need adequate ventilation to stay comfortable, and that constant circulation should keep your interior humidity within reasonable limits. During the cold/heating months your interior humidity often is very low, which would help.

If you weren't getting mold when it was leaking, I would think there would be less chance for mold since you have stopped water from infiltrating.

My papercrete roofs have not yet been sealed. It doesn't rain a lot here, and when it does the pc seems to dry quickly. Areas that have open seams tend to drip a little when it first starts raining, then the drips stop in a few minutes. My theory is that the pc absorbs some rain and swells enough to seal the seams.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.

On 7/25/2010 5:26 PM, Pack McKibben wrote:

I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House papercrete roof.  No more leaks!

My question is....What do y'all think?  Do you think the papercrete won't breath anymore

and I'm looking at future problems?   The LC roof has been on for three months and I

don't see any mold.

Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it?  What problems did you have?

if any

PackyMcK

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Roof

I think it depends on the outside temperature, inside humidity and insulation of the roof. Does it get really cold there?

If it is very cold outside and cold enough on the inside layer of the roof vapor barrier such that the humidity inside will condense on that barrier,
AND
there is not enough papercrete to insulate the inside air humidity from this vapore barier so that the temperature differenc of the moist air when it finally reaches the barrier through the papercrete is ... something about the dew point.

Basicly, if you have enough insulation (papercrete or whatever) between the inside of the room and the outside vapour barrier, so that by the time the moist air reaches the vapore barrier through the papercrete , as it moves through it changes it's ability to hold water so it will change it's tendency to condense on colder surfaces, and you will be fine. However if the insulation between the inside warm humid air and the cold inside of the roof is not enough there may be condensation (the dew point will be reached?) and mold may form on the innermost areas of the paper crete....

I think.

Was hoping some one who knew this stuff better than me was going to reply.

Dan

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pack McKibben <gakayaker@...> wrote:
>
> I need some input on papercrete roof's.
> I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water
> proofing. My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked
> to one degree or another over the years
> ( http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse# )
>
>
> After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+habitat&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
>
> I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House papercrete roof. No
> more leaks!
>
> My question is....What do y'all think? Do you think the papercrete won't breath
> anymore
> and I'm looking at future problems? The LC roof has been on for three months
> and I
> don't see any mold.
>
> Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it? What problems did you
> have?
> if any
> PackyMcK
> PackyMcK
>

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Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Roof

I plan on using "Thompson's Water Seal" as my final coating.
I used some on the walls ;before I got to the dome portion, and it worked wonderfully.
I feel  that as long as you have good air circulation in the interior of your structure,there shouldn't be a need for breathable walls or ceiling.
I have about 8 feet to go before my dome is closed.
I will have a chimney and damper painted black to create a draw. I  have two vents near the floor with doors that will allow as much air in as desired. 

 

Nameste
Odin

---

From: Pack McKibben <gakayaker@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 7:26:49 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete Roof

 

I need some input on papercrete roof's.  

I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water

proofing.  My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked

to one degree or another over the years

(   http://picasaweb. google.com/ owlswamp/ HobbitHouse#     )

After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"

http://books. google.com/ books?id= Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+ habitat&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt 0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw# v=onepage&q&f=false

I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House papercrete roof.  No more leaks!

My question is....What do y'all think?  Do you think the papercrete won't breath anymore

and I'm looking at future problems?   The LC roof has been on for three months and I

don't see any mold.

Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it?  What problems did you have?

if any

PackyMcK
 

PackyMcK

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[papercreters] Papercrete Roof

I need some input on papercrete roof's.  

I'd like to know what folks have been doing as far as water

proofing.  My papercrete roof has, pretty much, always leaked

to one degree or another over the years

(   http://picasaweb.google.com/owlswamp/HobbitHouse#     )

After reading "Latex Concrete Habitat"

http://books.google.com/books?id=Uu11_JPY83UC&dq=latex+concrete+habitat&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=vGtLTNjMOoK78gbt0Ywz&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

I painted a Latex Concrete slury mix over my Hobbit House papercrete roof.  No more leaks!

My question is....What do y'all think?  Do you think the papercrete won't breath anymore

and I'm looking at future problems?   The LC roof has been on for three months and I

don't see any mold.

Have you (if you've built a PC roof) been happy with it?  What problems did you have?

if any

PackyMcK
 

PackyMcK

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[papercreters] Slideshow

http://www.starship-enterprises.net/Domes/2vtoppent/

Updated pictures, with captions. If the predicted weekend thunderstorms don't rewet all the triangles I'll try to get it erected early next week, as soon as the last four get hard enough to install.

--  spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.

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[papercreters] pc triangles

I have completed the 20 triangles needed for my clerestory roof and am now waiting for them to cure. Since this is monsoon season we are getting thunderstorms often. Reasoning that it would be better for one triangle on top of a stack to get wet vs all of them lying on the ground getting wet, I stacked them during the beginnings of a rain two days ago.

Even though the triangles are larger than your typical block, and eight inches thick, I found that I could flip them 24 hours after pouring them. Once you break the ground contact then they dry faster, no longer wicking ground moisture back into the pc. The bit of flash along the edges cleans up easily.

I'm working on pictures and should have some available later today.


3D X format (cross your eyes)

The smaller triangles in the background are made from leftovers at the end of a mix. They are sized for a 6'D doggie dome. The sand stuck to the triangles brushes off once they cure and dry.

--  spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.

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[papercreters] P.S. TO THE T LOX-BLOX

The above photo is a close up of how the wall looks like after the forms are removed and how well the half wall ties to the full wall.

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[papercreters] P.S. TO THE "T LOX-BLOX"

The photo of the first T lock Block is showing the form  removed on one side to show how the T Lock is made, the form was removed the next morning, the block was poured the early evening before and dried overnight. An even faster way to pour PC is the slip form method shown below, I have modified it by not sliping the one form up but by adding more forms on top of the first until I reach the wall height I want.

Next photo is a close up of how it looks after the forms are removed and how well the half wall ties to the full wall.

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[papercreters] Re: New one in Peru -South America-

I don't make blocks, I pour my blocks as seen above, this was my very first try at pouring in place, they are called "T LOX-BLOX" why waste time making blocks that have to dry before you can lay them and then you have to make a batch of PC to lay them with, when it is so simple to just pour the blocks in place and be done with it, they can dry in the wall and they do that really fast with my formula.

BTB

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ashokchand2000" <ashokchand2000@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Countryatheartok,
> May I suggest that you try a small experiment using only half the quantity of clay and sand that you are presently using.
> From what I have read, about 10% by weight of sand/clay gives the optimal strength and R values. Also the blocks remain light wieght.
> Try it on a few blocks and let us know wht you find.
> Regards
> Ashok
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" criswells.ok@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yes my recipe for cement is the same as concrete that is one part cement
> > for every 3 parts paper and 2 parts clay or sand. But cement does not
> > weigh all that much that small one part cement might weigh 9.4 lbs I
> > come up with that number by taking the weight of a bag of cement (94 lbs
> > and dividing it by 10 or about 10 gallons of cement to the 94 lb bag) I
> > suspect the clay weighs much more than the cement and there is twice as
> > much. And there is three times as much paper but it only weighs about
> > the same as the cement. What are you calling the right amounts of clay
> > and pulp? Is that a 50/50 mixture? And how water proof is that mixture?
> > I tried clay and pulp last year left it out in the weathe along side my
> > mixture and it turned to mush in about 6 months. My mixture is still
> > hard and firm, soaks up water if left on the ground but will dry out and
> > remains hard all the time.
> >
> > BTB
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: New one in Peru -South America-

Dear Countryatheartok,
May I suggest that you try a small experiment using only half the quantity of clay and sand that you are presently using.
From what I have read, about 10% by weight of sand/clay gives the optimal strength and R values. Also the blocks remain light wieght.
Try it on a few blocks and let us know wht you find.
Regards
Ashok

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yes my recipe for cement is the same as concrete that is one part cement
> for every 3 parts paper and 2 parts clay or sand. But cement does not
> weigh all that much that small one part cement might weigh 9.4 lbs I
> come up with that number by taking the weight of a bag of cement (94 lbs
> and dividing it by 10 or about 10 gallons of cement to the 94 lb bag) I
> suspect the clay weighs much more than the cement and there is twice as
> much. And there is three times as much paper but it only weighs about
> the same as the cement. What are you calling the right amounts of clay
> and pulp? Is that a 50/50 mixture? And how water proof is that mixture?
> I tried clay and pulp last year left it out in the weathe along side my
> mixture and it turned to mush in about 6 months. My mixture is still
> hard and firm, soaks up water if left on the ground but will dry out and
> remains hard all the time.
>
> BTB
>

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[papercreters] 2v top pent cap pictures slideshow

http://www.starship-enterprises.net/Domes/2vtoppent/

The other day I decided to change horses in midstream and redesigned the top of the dome that I'm living in. If you remember pictures I posted last year, the top right now is a five sided pyramid, more or less. I am now changing that to a 2v 2/6 truncation geodesic for aesthetic reasons. The above link is to a slideshow of pictures starting with a cad drawing of the plan, then various shots of triangle molds filled with papercrete.

The molds are some that I have used for years, adjustable from nearly nothing to four feet per side. The pipes stuck in the pc are for attachment holes, so I don't have to drill later. It'll take five of the AAA triangles and fifteen of the BAB triangles for the whole dome.

I'm back to mixing with my power spray washer. It lets me make a quick batch in the morning before the temperature gets up there, and I don't feel pressed to dispose of a whole no-tow mixer batch in 100 degrees. Right after taking these pictures I pulled the molds. After five hours they are looking good. The smaller molds and triangles are to use up the leftover at the end of a batch. A barrel full does two big triangles with a couple of buckets left over. The small triangles will make a 6' diameter doggie dome. I'll try to add to the slideshow as progress warrants.

--  spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.

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[papercreters] Re: New one in Peru -South America-

Yes my recipe for cement is the same as concrete that is one part cement
for every 3 parts paper and 2 parts clay or sand. But cement does not
weigh all that much that small one part cement might weigh 9.4 lbs I
come up with that number by taking the weight of a bag of cement (94 lbs
and dividing it by 10 or about 10 gallons of cement to the 94 lb bag) I
suspect the clay weighs much more than the cement and there is twice as
much. And there is three times as much paper but it only weighs about
the same as the cement. What are you calling the right amounts of clay
and pulp? Is that a 50/50 mixture? And how water proof is that mixture?
I tried clay and pulp last year left it out in the weathe along side my
mixture and it turned to mush in about 6 months. My mixture is still
hard and firm, soaks up water if left on the ground but will dry out and
remains hard all the time.

BTB

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...>
wrote:

It is possible that the third world countries do not have the obsession
we have for secrecy and as a result would not shred paper as we do over
here. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, your recipe for PC uses as
much cement as a concrete mix hence the extreme weight of the dry blocks
or wall. By not using cement the blocks or wall sections are much
lighter and I would think have a much higher R value. Clay and pulp in
the right amounts makes a very strong, lightweight block with good
insulative qualities. And of course they are much cheaper and much
"greener".

--- On Tue, 7/13/10, countryatheartok criswells.ok@... wrote:

From: countryatheartok criswells.ok@...
Subject: [papercreters] Re: New one in Peru -South America-
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 11:05 AM

If possible do not use Newspaper because of it resale value, surely
there are places that pay to have their paper shredded, show them that
they don't have to pay for that service, that you will soak that paper
in water and pulp it for free. Also don't produce bricks or blocks,
pour the walls in place there by saving a lot of time and labor.
Yesteday I had to cut out a section of wall about 6 inches tall and 12
inches wide and 12 inches long, to make room for a new window. I had
never had to cut my mixture before and I've seen demo's on the net as
how to do it with a chain saw. Well let me tell you my mix must be much
stronger that the ones I've seen cut on the net, it took me about 20
minutes and three tries before I got the small section cut out, I was
shocked at the weight of such a small piece of block, I have not weighed
it yet but I'll bet that small section will top 20 lbs., and it had been
dry for a year now. I calculate it takes about 10
gallons of cement to pour a 12" tall 8" wide by 12 feet long and that
calculates to about $10.00 for less that $1.00 per sq ft of wall, can't
see how you can get much cheaper.
BTB

--- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, "ashokchand2000" <ashokchand2000@
...> wrote:

Dear Marco,

I am trying something similar here in Pune, India.

The first step I am taking is to get the raw material cost of one cubic
foot of papercrete mix below he wholesale price of one cubic foot of
conventional bricks.
This is tough to do as used newsprint as other economic uses in India
and sells at four times the cost of rock aggregate that it replaces in
concrete.

Second I am trying to get a good engineering college to certify the
strength of the bricks reduced.

Thirdly I am looking at uses such as making chicken coops (in good
demand) rather than making houses in which people live. Just imagine a
conversation between yourself and your wife where you tell her that the
first house that the family will own is made of paper!

Let us see how it goes.

Regards
Ashok

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[papercreters] Re: New one in Peru -South America-

They're lined with both ali foil and plastic film. The plastic provides a wipe clean surface, reliable waterproofing and makes it heat sealable, and the ali provides a vapour barrier.

The percentage of these is very low, but its your call if you dont want to try it.

NT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ashokchand2000" <ashokchand2000@...> wrote:
>
> Dear NT,
> To my knowledge, Tetrapack cartons are usually lined with plastic or aluminum foil.
> See the following extract from Wikipedia :
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tetra_Pak
>
> Tetra Pak's first product was a paper carton used for storing and transporting milk. The first product was a package in the shape of a triangular pyramid (or tetrahedron), called the Tetra Classic. Ruben Rausing and his team had been working on the Tetra Classic design since 1944, and by 1952 had perfected techniques for making his cartons fully airtight, using a system of plastic coated paperboard.
> The lining will cause immense grief as cement will not stick to it and the output will have poor strength.
>
> That said I have not practically used Tetrapack in papercrete.
> Regards
> Ashok
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@" <prrr@> wrote:
> >
> > Ashok
> >
> > Have you tried using tetrapaks in place of paper? I havent tried it, but I seem to remember hearing someone that managed to get it to work. I assume they'd be harder to pulp, and might need chopping before pulping. They have far lower value than paper.
> >
> > NT
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ashokchand2000" <ashokchand2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Marco,
> > >
> > > I am trying something similar here in Pune, India.
> > >
> > > The first step I am taking is to get the raw material cost of one cubic foot of papercrete mix below the wholesale price of one cubic foot of conventional bricks.
> > > This is tough to do as used newsprint as other economic uses in India and sells at four times the cost of rock aggregate that it replaces in concrete.
> > >
> > > Second I am trying to get a good engineering college to certify the strength of the bricks produced.
> > >
> > > Thirdly I am looking at uses such as making chicken coops (in good demand) rather than making houses in which people live. Just imagine a conversation between yourself and your wife where you tell her that the first house that the family will own is made of paper!
> > >
> > > Let us see how it goes.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Ashok
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Arq. Marco Bravo Camino" <bravo5_marco@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi to everybody;
> > > >
> > > > I´m writting to all of you who believe in dreams.
> > > > Now i´m trying to realize mine. its about my professional tesis. I studied architecture and want to apply the use of papercrete in houses to poor people in my country. I´ve read almost everything about it and now is the time to make it real. In a short time I´ll move to the town I choose for this application and want to share every step with you all.
> > > > The most difficult item isn´t constructive or technologich, iT´S TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND PAPERCRETE IS A CONVENIENT MATERIAL. If anyone has make has made a similar aplication please contact me. Otherwise i´ll keep in touch to share my experience and hear all your suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > A very huge hug.
> > > > Bach, Arq. Marco Bravo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy!
> > > > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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