Thursday, December 30, 2010

[papercreters] Ontario



Dear All,
recently I had been to a paper mill that was making paper ( white board actually) using a mix of virgin pulp sheets and some recycled paper and straw.
It generates a solid waste that consists of fine wooden fibre that cannot be captured in the mill as well as white pigment used to coat the board.
This sort of waste would be available in HUGE quantities in Canada.
If there is papercrete activity there, then could someone try a mix where this waste is used in part replacement of newsprint.

 
Regards
Ashok




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Wednesday, December 29, 2010

[papercreters] Ontario

Hi,
I Would like to connect with anybody working with papercrete in Southern Ontario the GTA area
I am new in the hobby!? and want to get dirty time and then ....
I can certainly help anybody as a volunteer to get starting
Let me know
Thanks

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[papercreters] Ontario

Hi There,
I am looking for some papercrete group / activity in Ontario ....
Anybody outthere papercreeting in the freezing weather now ... I would be happy to join ...
Thanks

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Tuesday, December 21, 2010

Re: [papercreters] Concrete Block machine



yes
http://www.livinginpaper.com/

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jeff <jnlgomes@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried to form the papercrete blocks in a forming machine they use for the concrete blocks?




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Monday, December 20, 2010

[papercreters] Concrete Block machine

Has anyone tried to form the papercrete blocks in a forming machine they use for the concrete blocks?

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[papercreters] Re: LOOKING FOR LOCAL PAPERCRETE ACTION,

Check out www.evesgarden.org I believe they are in Marathon Texas. It's an amazing display of papercrete construction.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mojojoyce" <mojojoyce@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I ma looking for any projects in south Texas, I am one hour forty min south of San Antonio. I've been researching PC for a while and looking to build near Fredericksburg in the spring. I am interested in doing a slip mold. Thanks for any help. Michael
>


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Saturday, December 18, 2010

[papercreters] LOOKING FOR LOCAL PAPERCRETE ACTION,

Hi I ma looking for any projects in south Texas, I am one hour forty min south of San Antonio. I've been researching PC for a while and looking to build near Fredericksburg in the spring. I am interested in doing a slip mold. Thanks for any help. Michael

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Wednesday, December 15, 2010

[papercreters] Re: How About Transparent Papercrete?

The other way of dealing with ASR is to add pozzolan to the cement mix to decrease its alkalinity. (* Alkaline Silica Reaction)

I can think of much cheaper ways to get light in though.


NT


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Tuesday, December 14, 2010

Re: [papercreters] How About Transparent Papercrete?



Well, thanks for the compliment, but I just make it up as I go along. We don't talk about the ones that don't work out.  : )

Considering the effect that portland cement has on glass, I think the fibers would have to be coated with something to prevent deterioration. Mono-filament fishing line should not have that problem. I wonder how well mono-filament transmits light, though. Sure it is transparent in a thin rod, but how about when it is a foot thick?  Someone should try embedding a bundle of it into a pc block and then trim the ends to see how it works out. It is an interesting idea and would probably be better insulation than a bottle wall. I have too much on my plate right now, so I probably would not get round tuits anytime soon.

Last year I looked for glass fiber to embed in the planned underground dome, with the upper ends above ground to be gathered into a solar concentrator. I never did find a good source of cheap fiber and then the project got put on indefinite hold, so I stopped looking. 

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/14/2010 10:17 PM, Perry Way wrote:
This is a really cool idea, I'll second Wayne's exuberance.  Though I don't think you would want to pin a lover against the wall and make-out with the lights on because then people'd know what you were up to even if they couldn't see you exactly.  The only thing is this is very spendy.  Very very spendy Wayne.... I agree it's a great idea but the price is prohibitive.  Would be nice to see if anyone could come up with a secondary approach.  Like.. perhaps using fishing line.  Maybe someone could invent a mechanism to needle fishing line through forms and then you pour the papercrete in once it's been threaded up.  Then to remove the forms you have to razor off the ends to be able to lift it off.  I dunno.. Spaceman.. what do you think?  You're quite the "rough and ready" engineer!




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Re: [papercreters] How About Transparent Papercrete?



This is a really cool idea, I'll second Wayne's exuberance.  Though I don't think you would want to pin a lover against the wall and make-out with the lights on because then people'd know what you were up to even if they couldn't see you exactly.  The only thing is this is very spendy.  Very very spendy Wayne.... I agree it's a great idea but the price is prohibitive.  Would be nice to see if anyone could come up with a secondary approach.  Like.. perhaps using fishing line.  Maybe someone could invent a mechanism to needle fishing line through forms and then you pour the papercrete in once it's been threaded up.  Then to remove the forms you have to razor off the ends to be able to lift it off.  I dunno.. Spaceman.. what do you think?  You're quite the "rough and ready" engineer!



On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Wayne <huon@intas.net.au> wrote:
 

Sasha, this is fantastic. I see soooooo much potential for something like
this. Walls with fantastic R value that allow daylight inside, but give
privacy. The window with curtains and blinds is now out of date. We
could go back to having solid shutters on windows to block the view and
decrease heat loss. I am keen to hear more.

Wayne



> I just found this interesting material/idea which may be applicable to
> papercrete.
>
> www.litracon.hu
>
> Transparent Concrete
>
> Thousands of optical glass fibres form a matrix and run parallel to each
> other between the two main surfaces of each block. The proportion of the
> fibres is very small (4%) compared to the total volume of the blocks.
> Moreover, these fibres mingle in the concrete because of their
> insignificant size, and they become a structural component as a kind of
> modest aggregate. Therefore, the surface of the blocks remains homogeneous
> concrete. In theory, a wall structure built from light-transmitting
> concrete can be several meters thick, because the fibres work without
> almost any loss in light up until 20 meters. Load-bearing structures can
> be also built of these blocks, since glass fibres do not have a negative
> effect on the well-known high compressive strength value of concrete. The
> blocks can be produced in various sizes and with embedded heat-isolation.
>
> Also uploaded some new studio photos to the gallery.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sasha
>


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Re: [papercreters] How About Transparent Papercrete?

Sasha, this is fantastic. I see soooooo much potential for something like
this. Walls with fantastic R value that allow daylight inside, but give
privacy. The window with curtains and blinds is now out of date. We
could go back to having solid shutters on windows to block the view and
decrease heat loss. I am keen to hear more.

Wayne


> I just found this interesting material/idea which may be applicable to
> papercrete.
>
> www.litracon.hu
>
> Transparent Concrete
>
> Thousands of optical glass fibres form a matrix and run parallel to each
> other between the two main surfaces of each block. The proportion of the
> fibres is very small (4%) compared to the total volume of the blocks.
> Moreover, these fibres mingle in the concrete because of their
> insignificant size, and they become a structural component as a kind of
> modest aggregate. Therefore, the surface of the blocks remains homogeneous
> concrete. In theory, a wall structure built from light-transmitting
> concrete can be several meters thick, because the fibres work without
> almost any loss in light up until 20 meters. Load-bearing structures can
> be also built of these blocks, since glass fibres do not have a negative
> effect on the well-known high compressive strength value of concrete. The
> blocks can be produced in various sizes and with embedded heat-isolation.
>
> Also uploaded some new studio photos to the gallery.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sasha
>
>


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[papercreters] How About Transparent Papercrete?

I just found this interesting material/idea which may be applicable to
papercrete.

www.litracon.hu

Transparent Concrete

Thousands of optical glass fibres form a matrix and run parallel to each other between the two main surfaces of each block. The proportion of the fibres is very small (4%) compared to the total volume of the blocks. Moreover, these fibres mingle in the concrete because of their insignificant size, and they become a structural component as a kind of modest aggregate. Therefore, the surface of the blocks remains homogeneous concrete. In theory, a wall structure built from light-transmitting concrete can be several meters thick, because the fibres work without almost any loss in light up until 20 meters. Load-bearing structures can be also built of these blocks, since glass fibres do not have a negative effect on the well-known high compressive strength value of concrete. The blocks can be produced in various sizes and with embedded heat-isolation.

Also uploaded some new studio photos to the gallery.

Cheers,

Sasha

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Sunday, December 5, 2010

Re: [papercreters] Door question



I got into historic restoration way back when dirt was new. Renovators Supply used to have hardware for doors like these.

http://www.rensup.com/?adsrc=9000910&gclid=CK7x55zB1qUCFRhzgwodxnX_jw

Clarissa



--- On Sun, 12/5/10, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Door question
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 5, 2010, 8:37 PM

 

Definitely not your usual door handle. Is there evidence on the other side of a surface mounted locking mechanism? It appears that the latch would be a box on the inside of the door, with a matching box on the other door. Since there is no mortise on the edge then the lock was probably on the surface.

this is the sliding latch I mentioned. One at the top and one at the bottom, inside. After the first door is open you slide these to open the second one.

I did a quick search and did not turn up appropriate hardware. It might be easier, and definitely cheaper, to fill the holes and start over with standard modern locksets.


spaceman

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are subject to change without notice
upon receipt of new information.

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On 12/5/2010 6:01 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
There was one more pic that I meant to include. It shows the holes for the hardware. Also my D key is sticking so if you ever see a word that looks weird try to picture it with a D somewhere in it.


Re: [papercreters] Door question



Definitely not your usual door handle. Is there evidence on the other side of a surface mounted locking mechanism? It appears that the latch would be a box on the inside of the door, with a matching box on the other door. Since there is no mortise on the edge then the lock was probably on the surface.

this is the sliding latch I mentioned. One at the top and one at the bottom, inside. After the first door is open you slide these to open the second one.

I did a quick search and did not turn up appropriate hardware. It might be easier, and definitely cheaper, to fill the holes and start over with standard modern locksets.


spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/5/2010 6:01 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
There was one more pic that I meant to include. It shows the holes for the hardware. Also my D key is sticking so if you ever see a word that looks weird try to picture it with a D somewhere in it.



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RE: [papercreters] oor question [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]

There was one more pic that I meant to include. It shows the holes for the hardware. Also my D key is sticking so if you ever see a word that looks weird try to picture it with a D somewhere in it.


"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith





To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: williams_judith@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:39:22 -0700
Subject: [papercreters] oor question [3 Attachments]

 
[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below] I've been looking around for a pic of the window we put in a few weeks ago but can't find it. I did come across these of the french doors I will be putting in on the south wall. I think I will have to hire someone to install them because I have no idea how to do it and they are so big and heavy. I bought them at Habitat and there was a note attached that I would need to buy special hardware. It gave me the name of the place to get what I will need, but I bought these things 5 years ago so am not sure it I can get the parts.  From the pics it looks as if they will need a separator between them, something for them to affix to when they are closed.

Any advice or observations are welcome.

"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith




Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS

1 of 1 Photo(s)


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Re: [papercreters] oor question



A lot of double doors use a sliding latch at the top and bottom on one door to hold it in place, which makes it rigid when you close the other door. This requires matching holes above and below in the frame and floor. Other than that they normally have standard hinges. No separator, that would divide the opening and negate the advantage of having a double wide door opening. The mortise on the second picture looks pretty deep so a standard hinge might not fit without some modification. Can't really see any details where the knobs/handles would attach but those also look non-standard. You could always fill the openings and go to standard modern hardware.

Nice color, that should look good surrounded by your brownish pc.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/5/2010 5:39 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
I've been looking around for a pic of the window we put in a few weeks ago but can't find it. I did come across these of the french doors I will be putting in on the south wall. I think I will have to hire someone to install them because I have no idea how to do it and they are so big and heavy. I bought them at Habitat and there was a note attached that I would need to buy special hardware. It gave me the name of the place to get what I will need, but I bought these things 5 years ago so am not sure it I can get the parts.  From the pics it looks as if they will need a separator between them, something for them to affix to when they are closed.

Any advice or observations are welcome.

"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 426/3296 - Release Date: 12/04/10



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[papercreters] oor question [3 Attachments]

[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]

I've been looking around for a pic of the window we put in a few weeks ago but can't find it. I did come across these of the french doors I will be putting in on the south wall. I think I will have to hire someone to install them because I have no idea how to do it and they are so big and heavy. I bought them at Habitat and there was a note attached that I would need to buy special hardware. It gave me the name of the place to get what I will need, but I bought these things 5 years ago so am not sure it I can get the parts.  From the pics it looks as if they will need a separator between them, something for them to affix to when they are closed.

Any advice or observations are welcome.

"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS

2 of 2 Photo(s)

1 of 1 File(s)


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[papercreters] Re: Newbie building code question.

I think the problems that you are going to run into in Canada are related to CMHC (canada mortgage housing company). It's just a insurance company owned by the Gov't that guarantees that the banks get their money if you default on the mortgage. The house has to comply with Canada House Standards and use CMHC approved building products. Theirs 5 levels of inspections to be approved. In 1977 when I built a house in Moose Jaw he only showed up after I was all done. Cities and provinces will require some inspections like checking your gas line, plumbing, roof trusses, and wiring. I didn't get a CMHC mortgage but payed to have the inspections done (ah ah) so I could sell my house. There really isn't a lot of cash buyers out there. So if you built a house with cash you could circumvent half the inspection process. But good luck on getting CMHC recirtifying your house if you want to sell it later. Obviously this information is dated.

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RE: [papercreters] Judith's projects was/Newbie building code question.



We got a late start but did get the window in. It is a fixed window, about 6' by 4' and very heavy. If you conjure up a picture of the 3 stooges installing a window, well then you may as well have been there. But it looks fabulous. Then we cut some plywood an boarded up the big south facing french door space. Now the inside of the building is warm and comfy. Just one more door to hang and it will be all closed in. With that done I will be able to work on getting the interior walls ready for plaster.

It was cold and windy by the time we left so I didn't get any pictures but will post one soon.

"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith





To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 13:37:10 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Judith's projects was/Newbie building code question.

 
It is beautiful here too, ranging from the high 60's to the low 70's depending on which side of the dome you're reading the thermometer. No wind either, which makes a world of difference.

With the window in, how close are you to being weather tight? You'll post pictures, of course?

Last week I spent some time finding and stopping air leaks around windows and door of my little dome, and suddenly I can't stand to run the little propane heater inside. It gets too hot, a few nights ago when I lit it because it was so cold outside, it quickly got up to 78 inside and I turned the heater off. It'll have to get a lot colder before I need the heater again.  

spaceman

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On 12/5/2010 12:49 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
I was just curious to see what anyone who clicked the link would see. Yes you gave me a bunch of pictures and I have Ev's too. Scott and Tom an I are on our way to put in the big window with the million dollar view. We've had such cold windy weather since before Thanksgiving that we haven't been able to get anything done. Today is beautiful.


"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith





To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 10:44:05 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Newbie building code question.

 
There is a script that runs and shows the pictures in several 3D formats or as "normal" flat pictures. You need to enable java in your browser for it to work. If someone is on dial-up or a slow connection, it's going to take a while. Once it loads and displays a photo, clicking a photo and then pressing H will get you help explaining how to change settings like the format, slideshow speed, etc.  Well, I just checked to confirm and it works except that the help comes up in what looks like maybe German, which I don't speak. Oh well, most of the controls should be pretty much obvious.

These photos are the ones I took at your place 2009/09. You've seen these photos before and are in several of them. Didn't I give you a copy of them?   : )

I'm sure I've posted links to those test files several times over the years, but it is easy for stuff to get lost in the shuffle. The links are now in the group links section.

There is another set of pictures that Evelyn took and gave me permission to put online, at
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/pcgathering1/evelynspix/
These are all 2D, "normal" photos and that page does not require java.

spaceman

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On 12/5/2010 10:02 AM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
Thanks for the files on testing results.I am often asked about the load bearing properties of papercrete and appreciate having some facts to support my claims that is indeed load bearing. How do I view Judith's Projects? Must I download something from the site that comes up when I click the link?


"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith





To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 20:12:38 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Newbie building code question.

 
Since the code does not include papercrete, the legal result is that it is not legal to build with it in areas that have adopted the code. Often talking to an open minded inspector can get a variance that will let you use it, but barring that you will be building without a permit with the possibility that your project can be red tagged and condemned.

Who said pc isn't load bearing? With compression strength of several hundred psi a 12" thick wall will support tons per running foot, assuming that the wall is made properly, and with a good foundation. Check out Judith's projects. Her 12" thick walls support logs for vigas (beams) and a thick papercrete roof, and no doubt would support a lot more.

The pc would nicely replace siding/insulation/drywall but not without interference from the code enforcing authorities. Most inspectors/building departments do not allow anything that isn't code approved because that puts any liability on them, and they don't want that. They do it by the book for the most part so they can't be sued. At least that is the situation most places in the US, I don't know anything about Canada except it gets really cold and there are lots of trees  : )

An 18" thick wall would give you in the range of R50. But the authorities probably won't recognize that without certified lab tests. There are some test results at
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/files/pc%20tests%20astm.jpg
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/files/papercrete%20strength%20tests.jpg
that you might use when you are talking to inspectors. Whether or not they recognize them is iffy at best. ASTM is a standard test organization here but that still doesn't get pc into the code. Several years ago a committee of members of this group started working on having pc written into the building code, but that effort fell apart after a while.

There are various opinions about whether it is better to talk to the authorities first or just build and hope. Some say it is easier to get forgiveness than permission, but you can't count on that.

spaceman

All opinions expressed or implied
are subject to change without notice
upon receipt of new information.

http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/4/2010 7:27 PM, amherstburg46 wrote:
I understand that its very tough to get a papercrete building approved in many locations because of the lack of recognition in building codes.

However, I am not sure what the lack of building code support prevents you from doing. I understand that using it to support a load is out of the question, but I am not sure to what extent it could be used in non load bearing situations.

Assuming you go with a traditional style of house construction, could a solid papercrete wall replace the siding, insulation and drywall without interference from the building code ?

Could it replace some and not others. Certainly a 18 inch wall would meet the insulation requirements of the area I live (Ontario), but would its R value be considered because the the lack of standards and testing ?




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Re: [papercreters] Judith's projects was/Newbie building code question.



It is beautiful here too, ranging from the high 60's to the low 70's depending on which side of the dome you're reading the thermometer. No wind either, which makes a world of difference.

With the window in, how close are you to being weather tight? You'll post pictures, of course?

Last week I spent some time finding and stopping air leaks around windows and door of my little dome, and suddenly I can't stand to run the little propane heater inside. It gets too hot, a few nights ago when I lit it because it was so cold outside, it quickly got up to 78 inside and I turned the heater off. It'll have to get a lot colder before I need the heater again.  

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/5/2010 12:49 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
I was just curious to see what anyone who clicked the link would see. Yes you gave me a bunch of pictures and I have Ev's too. Scott and Tom an I are on our way to put in the big window with the million dollar view. We've had such cold windy weather since before Thanksgiving that we haven't been able to get anything done. Today is beautiful.


"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith





To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 10:44:05 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Newbie building code question.

 
There is a script that runs and shows the pictures in several 3D formats or as "normal" flat pictures. You need to enable java in your browser for it to work. If someone is on dial-up or a slow connection, it's going to take a while. Once it loads and displays a photo, clicking a photo and then pressing H will get you help explaining how to change settings like the format, slideshow speed, etc.  Well, I just checked to confirm and it works except that the help comes up in what looks like maybe German, which I don't speak. Oh well, most of the controls should be pretty much obvious.

These photos are the ones I took at your place 2009/09. You've seen these photos before and are in several of them. Didn't I give you a copy of them?   : )

I'm sure I've posted links to those test files several times over the years, but it is easy for stuff to get lost in the shuffle. The links are now in the group links section.

There is another set of pictures that Evelyn took and gave me permission to put online, at
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/pcgathering1/evelynspix/
These are all 2D, "normal" photos and that page does not require java.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/5/2010 10:02 AM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
Thanks for the files on testing results.I am often asked about the load bearing properties of papercrete and appreciate having some facts to support my claims that is indeed load bearing. How do I view Judith's Projects? Must I download something from the site that comes up when I click the link?


"If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy" - James Madison

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith





To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 20:12:38 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Newbie building code question.

 
Since the code does not include papercrete, the legal result is that it is not legal to build with it in areas that have adopted the code. Often talking to an open minded inspector can get a variance that will let you use it, but barring that you will be building without a permit with the possibility that your project can be red tagged and condemned.

Who said pc isn't load bearing? With compression strength of several hundred psi a 12" thick wall will support tons per running foot, assuming that the wall is made properly, and with a good foundation. Check out Judith's projects. Her 12" thick walls support logs for vigas (beams) and a thick papercrete roof, and no doubt would support a lot more.

The pc would nicely replace siding/insulation/drywall but not without interference from the code enforcing authorities. Most inspectors/building departments do not allow anything that isn't code approved because that puts any liability on them, and they don't want that. They do it by the book for the most part so they can't be sued. At least that is the situation most places in the US, I don't know anything about Canada except it gets really cold and there are lots of trees  : )

An 18" thick wall would give you in the range of R50. But the authorities probably won't recognize that without certified lab tests. There are some test results at
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/files/pc%20tests%20astm.jpg
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/files/papercrete%20strength%20tests.jpg
that you might use when you are talking to inspectors. Whether or not they recognize them is iffy at best. ASTM is a standard test organization here but that still doesn't get pc into the code. Several years ago a committee of members of this group started working on having pc written into the building code, but that effort fell apart after a while.

There are various opinions about whether it is better to talk to the authorities first or just build and hope. Some say it is easier to get forgiveness than permission, but you can't count on that.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 12/4/2010 7:27 PM, amherstburg46 wrote:
I understand that its very tough to get a papercrete building approved in many locations because of the lack of recognition in building codes.  However, I am not sure what the lack of building code support prevents you from doing.  I understand that using it to support a load is out of the question, but I am not sure to what extent it could be used in non load bearing situations.  Assuming you go with a traditional style of house construction, could a solid  papercrete wall replace the siding, insulation and drywall without interference from the building code ?  Could it replace some and not others.  Certainly a 18 inch wall would meet the insulation requirements of the area I live (Ontario), but would its R value be considered because the the lack of standards and testing ?     ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 426/3296 - Release Date: 12/04/10   


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 426/3296 - Release Date: 12/04/10



No virus found in this message.
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Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 426/3296 - Release Date: 12/04/10



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