[papercreters] Batteries on concrete (was: Re: just wondering)

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, eo greensticks <eogreensticks@...> wrote:
>
> that still doesn't explain why supposedly even a percentage of MgO in the
> concrete mix
> prevents the discharge of batteries from occurring?

Why do you think it does?


> I thought it might have something to do with whatever the galvanic current
> thing is
> in Ferrocement- where the zincalume reacts electrically with Something in
> the concrete to the detriment
> of structural strength and longevity?

how would that have any effect on a lead acid battery?


> or maybe more wives tales?
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:43 AM, prrr.t21@... <prrr@...>wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > AIUI, sitting on concrete made them cold, causing at times
> > a) condensation on the case, discharging it
> > b) condensation in the acid, diluting it and causing it to overflow &
> > again short the battery.
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:22 PM, liberty1_27606
> > > <liberty1@>wrote:it worries me to think of
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eo,
> > > >
> > > > The "batteries on concrete" myth got started in the early days of the
> > > > automobile - think Model T. At that time, the container parts of
> > batteries
> > > > were made from wood. The thinking was that the moisture in the case
> > would
> > > > conduct electricity to the moisture in the concrete and drain the
> > battery.
> > > > Today, battery cases are made from plastic, so I do not think this is a
> > > > real problem.
> > > >
> > > > (Restorers of brass era cars - I don't know if the original myth was
> > true.)
> > > >
> > > > Bobby
> > > >
> > > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, eo greensticks wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > i have been using the ferrocement technique for sculpture and one of
> > the
> > > > > reasons i was interested in MgO was the different electrical
> > > > > characteristics of the MgOPO4 concrete...
> > > > >
> > > > > the 'flaw' in ferrocement is that if you are using chickenwire with
> > > > > galvanized coating (zinc)
> > > > > i understand that there is an electrical interaction in between the
> > zinc
> > > > > and the portland concrete which will eventually deteriorate the
> > > > > sculpture.Portland and copper don't get along either apparently.
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe the MgOPO4 over the chicken wire Might eliminate this problem,
> > does
> > > > > anyone know?
> > > > >
> > > > > what i thought was to then use the papercrete as the *top* layer (the
> > > > other
> > > > > way around to the suggestion)- it would absorb water of course
> > > > > (small test piece indicates that it absorbs an approximate third of
> > its
> > > > > weight in water-hopefully not too much for the engineering of the
> > frame?)
> > > > > but the water would then be released back into the atmosphere from
> > that
> > > > top
> > > > > layer - Would that work?
> > > > >
> > > > > I would *rather* use the MgOPO4 in the papercrete so that it was
> > > > > 'everything proof' ( all fibre encased in chemically bonded ceramic
> > > > sounds
> > > > > great!) but
> > > > > i am still trying to find a source of the raw ingredients at an
> > > > affordable
> > > > > price-
> > > > > it seems that the Granicrete is fairly expensive as well-i would be
> > using
> > > > > it to test if i could get any
> > > > > but no australian supplier yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > i read Somewhere that even a small percentage of MgO in concrete mix
> > for
> > > > a
> > > > > slab means that a
> > > > > battery left overnight on the slab will not be discharged (i did not
> > > > know a
> > > > > battery left on a concrete slab overnight Would be discharged but
> > there
> > > > you
> > > > > go)
> > > > >
> > > > > I have tried using MgO, the reactive kind with the cow on the bag,
> > in the
> > > > > portland mix for ferrocement over galv chicken wire at 2 parts (by
> > > > > volume!) MgO to 1 part Portland and also the other was around (2
> > parts
> > > > > portland to 1 part MgO, by volume again) but hard to say what the
> > > > > difference is and i will not be here in 500 years to know if it
> > failed!
> > > > So
> > > > > far, after 2 years it seems fine...
> > > > >
> > > > > This would Not , of course, be the chemically bonded ceramic that
> > seems
> > > > to
> > > > > have become my 'holy grail' but i was going on the formula
> > reccommended
> > > > by
> > > > > TecEco to the sculptor in west australia who made the beautiful giant
> > > > > Ghekko sculpture (i think he also used flyash and
> > > > > clinoptilolite in his formula though which i did not)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am starting a new sculpture now, having just completed the
> > chickenwire
> > > > > armature-having failed
> > > > > to find a source of the dead burned MgO i will use portland but
> > thinking
> > > > > about coating the wire with something to isolate it from the
> > portland-i
> > > > may
> > > > > use reactive MgO in the portland mix for what it's worth but as i
> > said,
> > > > do
> > > > > not know if that will mitigate the 'electrical' deterioration of the
> > > > > material.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have any ideas about this?
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: at the risk of being longwinded (!) i attended a wooden Boat
> > Festival
> > > > > yesterday where they
> > > > >
> > > > > were making boats with heat shrinkable dacron over cane or wood
> > > > > frames-very lightweight-
> > > > >
> > > > > brought me back to thinking about the patio roof i have been
> > ruminating
> > > > >
> > > > > on for some time- my latest idea had been a lightweight sapling frame
> > > > with
> > > > > rope or wire (or
> > > > >
> > > > > cane?) between the larger woods (which turned out to be exactly how
> > they
> > > > do
> > > > > the boats!)
> > > > >
> > > > > i would then 'skin' this frame (like the boats) with cloth stretched
> > > > > tight onto it and then paint
> > > > >
> > > > > with bondcrete -this would become the interior surface-and would
> > provide
> > > > a
> > > > > stiff enough
> > > > >
> > > > > support capable of holding the weight of a second layer of cloth
> > dipped
> > > > in
> > > > >
> > > > > slurry without any sagging , a design problem which has dogged my
> > > > previous
> > > > > efforts at 'roof'
> > > > >
> > > > > (oh, for the MgOPO4-but i would use PC for availability just to get
> > it
> > > > > done and keep the
> > > > >
> > > > > patio from being washed away by these crazy rains!)
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea is that i could work in courses from the edge to the top so
> > that
> > > > > each completed
> > > > >
> > > > > section would hold my weight to continue the process (i would
> > probably
> > > > use
> > > > > removable supports
> > > > >
> > > > > to be on the safe side...) resulting , if it works, in a curving
> > organic
> > > > > sort of roof shaped so as to
> > > > >
> > > > > shed the water to where i can collect it ..
> > > > >
> > > > > I go around about whether it should then be rendered over or perhaps
> > a
> > > > > renderish layer
> > > > >
> > > > > of..papercrete? sawdustcrete? something...?* between* the cloth
> > layers-
> > > > > maybe not necessary
> > > > >
> > > > > for strength but better for some insulation (my unlined tin roofs
> > 'rain'
> > > > > inside from condensation on
> > > > >
> > > > > cold mornings, not good!)and then some kind of waterproofing safe for
> > > > water
> > > > > collection over the
> > > > >
> > > > > top.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously the MgOPO4 is still the perfect but so far unobtainable
> > > > solution
> > > > > to this design
> > > > >
> > > > > possibility but from what i have done so far and what i saw at the
> > boat
> > > > > festival, i think it may
> > > > >
> > > > > work.
> > > > >
> > > > > there may be some 'tie down' issues to keep the thing
> > > > >
> > > > > on site (!) but it had me surmising that an upturned boat may have
> > been
> > > > > 'the primordial roof'?
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers, eo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:45 AM, seniorfinancialplanningins <
> > > > > devonia111@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *MgO i*s used as an insulator in industrial cables, as a basic
> > > > refractory
> > > > > > material for crucibles and as a principal fireproofing ingredient
> > in
> > > > > > construction materials.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *From:* Garth & Kim Travis
> > > > > > *To:* papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > *Sent:* Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:26 AM
> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [papercreters] just wondering
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greetings,
> > > > > > What is MgO?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bright Blessings,
> > > > > > Garth & Kim Travis
> > > > > > http://www.therosecoloredforest.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bedias, Texas
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2/9/2013 10:59 PM, devonias wrote:
> > > > > > > I was thinking of you using papercrete on a small chicken wire
> > > > structure
> > > > > > > then covering it with MgO...can you shoot MgO from a heavy duty
> > shop
> > > > vac?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _
> > > > > > ****
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>




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