[papercreters] Re: tote mixers

Ahhhhhhh.... "Tote"

No wonder I couldn't fine those things with any internet search I
tried. I didn't know that they were called "totes" so I wasn't using
the correct search term.

$20-$40/each sounds great. New ones tend to run 5 to 10 times that
amount.

It appears that they are also called "IBC tanks".
IBC=Intermediate Bulk Container
http://tinyurl.com/592njw

How did any of us survive before Google existed?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Sklar <sklarm-yahoo@...>
wrote:
>
> I did my first two papercrete mixes with a borrowed tow behind.
That
> mixer was made from a 275 gallon tote. These totes are very
> affordable on the used market. Normally $20 - $40 each. My problem
> with it was the height. It was very difficult to get the mix out.
We
> could have added a large ball valve to release the mix, but it was
> not mine to modify. The owner who still has it tried adding auger
to
> move the mix, but the motor was too slow. In the end we just
tipped
> the tote over and shoveled out the mix. That mixer is probably for
> sale if anyone is interested.
>
> I have found four sources for these totes near Animas Creek, Las
> Cruces, Derry, and Silver City, NM. The totes were originally used
to
> hold different things such as animal feed supplements, bentonite
> clay, vinegar and so on. I use two of the vinegar totes for water
> catchment off my roof. They are also great for waste veggie oil
storage.
>
> -Mikey
> http://blog.holyscraphotsprings.com
>

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[papercreters] tote mixers

I did my first two papercrete mixes with a borrowed tow behind. That mixer was made from a 275 gallon tote. These totes are very affordable on the used market. Normally $20 - $40 each. My problem with it was the height. It was very difficult to get the mix out. We could have added a large ball valve to release the mix, but it was not mine to modify. The owner who still has it tried adding auger to move the mix, but the motor was too slow. In the end we just tipped the tote over and shoveled out the mix. That mixer is probably for sale if anyone is interested.

I have found four sources for these totes near Animas Creek, Las Cruces, Derry, and Silver City, NM. The totes were originally used to hold different things such as animal feed supplements, bentonite clay, vinegar and so on. I use two of the vinegar totes for water catchment off my roof. They are also great for waste veggie oil storage.

-Mikey

http://blog.holyscraphotsprings.com

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[papercreters] Plastic Tanks -was- Re:Udi Update? & A QUESTION...

Do you mean a tank like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQZcuSB9CI
(video by Mikey Sklar)

It doesn't look like Mikey's mixer, but it seems that he got his
start with a plastic tank.

I suspect that the reason you see more metal tanks is because the
metal stock tanks are available at most farm and livestock stores.
It's easily located. The plastic tanks are out there too, but they
don't seem to show up at the common retail stores that most people
will tend to shop. Just a theory.

I keep thinking that there probably large plastic containers that get
used to ship various liquid materials in bulk that could be
resued/recycled. Other than the standard barrels, I don't see many
large plastic containers that can be snapped up on the cheap. Maybe
others are aware of good sources?

On another note:

Has everyone seen you seen YouTube/Papercreters?
http://www.youtube.com/groups_videos?name=papercreters

If you have a papercrete related video, please feel free to join that
group and add it.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ehud Ben-Shabat"
<levecosolutions@...> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I have a small Question for EVERYONE.
> since I'm planning on building a mixer soon- Why does no one use
Plastic
> (PET or HDPE) for the toe mixer Tank?
>

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[papercreters] tire benches stucco issues

Hi everyone
I've sent a link to some pics of |PC sitting areas based on used tires filled with agragates as structure, wire mesh and PC stucco.
so... I've learnt some info I'd like to share:
a. keep your structure firm and tight- put rebars if needed, screws and all- the tighter it is you'll have less work fixing it.
b. paper can beseficiantly ground using no machinary- just a lot of kids stomping it inside a big concrete tub (1x2x0.30 meters). be careful not to injure yourself though.
c. On the blue sitting area, I've used 2 kinds of stucco. the FIRST layer was very thick, in order to fill the gaps, and it consisted of 3 buckets (approx. 8 liter) of ground paper and half a bucket of WPC -white portland cement. The SECOND layer was very thin (approx. 0.5-1 cm or half an inch max) and consisted of 2 buckets of paper, 1 bucket of WPC and 1 liter (2 pounds) of fine yellow clay.
the second layer dried or might I say cured (heated up a  bit as well) quiet fast, about 4 hours, while being sponged with blue water based pigment.
this application is much stronger than a simple 1 thick layer of stucco which I've previousely done.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO UPLOAD THIS RECIEPES TO THE PC DATABASE?

would like to hear comments & improvement suggsestions
Have a Great summer
udi

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Re: [papercreters] Re:Udi Update? & A QUESTION...

Some do use plastic tanks. There is no reason not to, and some good reasons to use plastic, including corrosion and metal fatigue. In my case the galvanized metal cattle tank was available and the right size so that's what I used.

Spaceman

Ehud Ben-Shabat wrote:

I have a small Question for EVERYONE.
since I'm planning on building a mixer soon- Why does no one use Plastic (PET or HDPE) for the toe mixer Tank?

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[papercreters] Re:Udi Update? & A QUESTION...

Hi slurryguy & All.
have been reading but not sending mails thats true
also been busy building some (stick-frame, PC sitting areas, wetlands...) summer is busy busy here!
this is a link for some projects I have\doing on,

http://picasaweb.google.com/LevEcoSolutions

besides I'm now waiting for an order of a PC+recycled wood cupboard & would send more Pics if it'll happen...

I have a small Question for EVERYONE.
since I'm planning on building a mixer soon- Why does no one use Plastic (PET or HDPE) for the toe mixer Tank?

--
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[papercreters] Re: Extreme Makeover

An engineer, and the local building department.

If you have an engineer's stamp, the rest is usually easy. (not
always)

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspector@...> wrote:
>
> But who is going to sign off on the permits?
>
> --- On Wed, 7/30/08, slurryguy <slurryguy@...> wrote:
>
> From: slurryguy <slurryguy@...>
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Extreme Makeover
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 2:21 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A Papercrete Blitz Build isn't completely unreasonable. It's all
about
> planning, preparation, organization, and staging of materials.
>
> 1. They'd certainly want to use a post and beam frame to support
the
> roof. That would allow roofers to be working while wall work is
still
> going on.
>
> 2. Already dry papercrete panels could be used. Like SIP's, but not
> structural. Keep in mind, that TV show will use a big crane just
for
> fun. Tool rental fees are not any constraint. If they made sure the
> panels were carefully trimmed so that they were already tight
fitting,
> they could just run a bead of construction adhesive to glue them to
> each other. No mortar required.
>
> 3. Don't stucco. Use some kind of siding. Probably clapboards,
> shingles, steel siding, or vinyl siding. They don't require any
drying
> time.
>
> 4. The interior of the panels could already be smoothed and pre-
> plastered. A little touchup on the seams would be all they need to
> do. Perhaps mud and tape the joints just like drywall.
>
> 5. The panels could have channels already inside them for
> plumbing/electrical /etc.
>
> With enough preparation and planning, they wouldn't even need to
have a
> papercrete mixer on site. All the difficult tedious work would have
> been done long in advance before the week started.
>
> Of course, none of the fancy construction techniques help with the
> forclosure isses. I think that's essentially a function of building
a
> house that's way too big. Extreme Makeover tries to build gigantic
> over the top houses. I wouldn't be surprised if the property taxes
> alone on some of those are beyond the financial means of some of
the
> families that are expected to live in them. The utility bills are
also
> crazy high for those monsters.
>
> I'm not saying every foreclosure is for the same reason, but in the
> Extreme Makover situation, it doesn't take a financial genius to
> recognize the fundemental problem. TOO MUCH HOUSE.
>
> KISS... not just Keep it Simple Stupid....
>
> Keep it Simple (and) SOLVENT!
>
> --- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, Pat B Parham
> <texasweldinginspec tor@> wrote:
> >
> > I saw were there is one of Extreme Makeover's house going for
> foreclosure, would like to see them try a papercrete job in one
week.
> >
>

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[papercreters] Foundation Handbook

I managed to find a pretty good free online handbook about building
foundations.

It's from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

This would be very good reading for anyone thinking about building
something.

This handbook does not cover the use of "alternative" foundation
systems. I know many in this group want to use alternative systems.
I personally ENCOURAGE that. However, I do NOT encourage someone to
build a substandard foundation for a structure no matter what systems
are used.

This handbook does a really good job of giving detailed information
about how footings, drainage, waterprooofing, insulation, radon
control, and a variety of factors that are important even if a rubble
trench is your foundation of choice.

If someone adapts the fundemental principles described in this
handbook to an "alternative" foundation system, you'll probably end
up with a much better foundation than you would otherwise.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/foundation/ORNL_CON-295.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/5cn8cu

PLEASE PUT THIS LINK IN YOUR PERSONAL LIBRARY!

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Extreme Makeover

But who is going to sign off on the permits? --- On Wed, 7/30/08, slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote: From: slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Extreme Makeover To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 2:21 AM A Papercrete Blitz Build isn't completely unreasonable. It's all about planning, preparation, organization, and staging of materials. 1. They'd certainly want to use a post and beam frame to support the roof. That would allow roofers to be working while wall work is still going on. 2. Already dry papercrete panels could be used. Like SIP's, but not structural. Keep in mind, that TV show will use a big crane just for fun. Tool rental fees are not any constraint. If they made sure the panels were carefully trimmed so that they were already tight fitting, they could just run a bead of construction adhesive to glue them to each other. No mortar required. 3. Don't stucco. Use some kind of siding. Probably clapboards, shingles, steel siding, or vinyl siding. They don't require any drying time. 4. The interior of the panels could already be smoothed and pre- plastered. A little touchup on the seams would be all they need to do. Perhaps mud and tape the joints just like drywall. 5. The panels could have channels already inside them for plumbing/electrical /etc. With enough preparation and planning, they wouldn't even need to have a papercrete mixer on site. All the difficult tedious work would have been done long in advance before the week started. Of course, none of the fancy construction techniques help with the forclosure isses. I think that's essentially a function of building a house that's way too big. Extreme Makeover tries to build gigantic over the top houses. I wouldn't be surprised if the property taxes alone on some of those are beyond the financial means of some of the families that are expected to live in them. The utility bills are also crazy high for those monsters. I'm not saying every foreclosure is for the same reason, but in the Extreme Makover situation, it doesn't take a financial genius to recognize the fundemental problem. TOO MUCH HOUSE. KISS... not just Keep it Simple Stupid.... Keep it Simple (and) SOLVENT! --- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, Pat B Parham <texasweldinginspec tor@...> wrote: > > I saw were there is one of Extreme Makeover's house going for foreclosure, would like to see them try a papercrete job in one week. >

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Re: [papercreters] More pictures of foundation fix

Hi Harold   Eddie Bishop here,(30 years master plumber) Harold first do you have the time to do it. Second find out what the frost level is in your area. This will estimate of how deep the water line should be; unless it is a new line you have installed. If it is a black roll /or galvanized pipe I would suggest you replace it all as soon as possible. If it is PVC check to see if it is schedule 40. Regussrdless of which it is when water pipe goes under or penetrate a concrete it should have a larger diameter pipe to sleeve it. You can go toHD or Lowes and buy a pipe probe for about $25 if you really need it. Locate the pipe and dig a little below it, clear the water out; all this being done with the water off. next have some one to turn on the water just slightly enough to see the meter turn-- what you will be looking for is which side of the ditch does the water come from and dig in this direction. You will know when you reach the leak because it will most likely have eroded a hole in the ground. If it is copper use a fitting called a "Shark Bite coupling" the will need to be able to move enough to slide them on. If it is PVC use a sliding/ telescoping coupling and 2 regular couplings---USE ONLY PVC RATED GLUE-- clean with a clear cleaner and glue > If black roll 2 insert couplings and 8 clamps 2 on each end.. If galvanizes  get out the saw/ if you have a saw zaw then great but do not cut the pipe straight  through in one line. Stop just short of cutting through and cut a V or wedge out before cutting through the pipe . This will prevent the pipe from shaking very much as you cut all the way through. One side of the ditch will need to be dug out about 2 feetso you can slightly pull up. next get a pair of channel lock or pliers and slightly grab the pipe on both cut ends and go all away aroud the pipe to remove the scaled rust. You will need a galvanized dresser coupling. Buy one from  a plumbing supplier--the quality is is better than HD or Lowes. Clean the pipe the total length of the coupling on both sides with the channel locks then wipe it with a rag the remove any loose scales. Unscrew both nuts and remove the rubber washers; be aware that some have an additional metal friction washer next to the nut. Start buy pulling up on the pipe just enough to slide on the nut;if it stops this just indicates where there is rust that still needs to be removed. Slide the nut back far enogh to equal the lengthof the center piece. Next slide on the rubber washer and friction washer if there is one. Then slide on the center piece the do the same for the other side; only slide it back half the length of the center piece. pull the ceter piece over to it and hand tighten. Slide the other nut and washer over and hand tighten. This last nut and washer may need some help; hold the channel locks behind the metal nut grabbing around the pipe loosely and tap the channel locks with a hammer until it meets the center piece. Then hand tighten. Finally hold the center piece with one pair of channel locks while tightning the nuts; do not allow the center piece to move while tightning.  If you have a leak too large form the middle to cover you will need a short piece of galvanized pipe and 2 dresser couplings. Most likely it will be 3/4 inch or 1/2 inch---GOOD LUCK           Eddie Bishop, owner Carolina Plumbing 864-621-9762 --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Harold "Hal" Schmidt <haroldschmidt@swbell.net> wrote: From: Harold "Hal" Schmidt <haroldschmidt@swbell.net> Subject: [papercreters] More pictures of foundation fix To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:32 PM Slurryguy and others, I added more pictures of the foundation fix.  See http://www.flickr. com/photos/ halschmidt/ sets/72157605880 299140/ I just uncovered another problem today, the water line going into the house leaks badly. I turned the water on and check the changes I made inside, and all was OK.  I went to lunch and came back, checked the meter and it was running.  I then found a big mud puddle next to where the pipe enters the house. Start digging and or call a plumber.  Good bye $$$ Hal

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[papercreters] Re: Extreme Makeover

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16980412/detail.html

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspector@...> wrote:
>
> I saw were there is one of Extreme Makeover's house going for
foreclosure, would like to see them try a papercrete job in one week.
>

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[papercreters] Re: Extreme Makeover

A Papercrete Blitz Build isn't completely unreasonable. It's all about
planning, preparation, organization, and staging of materials.

1. They'd certainly want to use a post and beam frame to support the
roof. That would allow roofers to be working while wall work is still
going on.

2. Already dry papercrete panels could be used. Like SIP's, but not
structural. Keep in mind, that TV show will use a big crane just for
fun. Tool rental fees are not any constraint. If they made sure the
panels were carefully trimmed so that they were already tight fitting,
they could just run a bead of construction adhesive to glue them to
each other. No mortar required.

3. Don't stucco. Use some kind of siding. Probably clapboards,
shingles, steel siding, or vinyl siding. They don't require any drying
time.

4. The interior of the panels could already be smoothed and pre-
plastered. A little touchup on the seams would be all they need to
do. Perhaps mud and tape the joints just like drywall.

5. The panels could have channels already inside them for
plumbing/electrical/etc.

With enough preparation and planning, they wouldn't even need to have a
papercrete mixer on site. All the difficult tedious work would have
been done long in advance before the week started.

Of course, none of the fancy construction techniques help with the
forclosure isses. I think that's essentially a function of building a
house that's way too big. Extreme Makeover tries to build gigantic
over the top houses. I wouldn't be surprised if the property taxes
alone on some of those are beyond the financial means of some of the
families that are expected to live in them. The utility bills are also
crazy high for those monsters.

I'm not saying every foreclosure is for the same reason, but in the
Extreme Makover situation, it doesn't take a financial genius to
recognize the fundemental problem. TOO MUCH HOUSE.

KISS... not just Keep it Simple Stupid....

Keep it Simple (and) SOLVENT!

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspector@...> wrote:
>
> I saw were there is one of Extreme Makeover's house going for
foreclosure, would like to see them try a papercrete job in one week.
>

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[papercreters] more preliminaries

I kept the 25 gram paper products; had to add 4 tablespoons water then
removed 2 1/2 tablespoons from the newspaper to process it - all the
others were standard 2 cups water. Early comments - the white copy
paper is very smooth, blended beautifully. The manila folder is
fluffier than newspaper and blended as well as the copy paper.
Cardboard was a surprise - took longer to pulp and looks more like
concrete than the others and was the only one that needed to be mixed
by hand. Camera is charging so hopefully pictures tomorrow.

1/4 cup of portland cement was added to each type of paper; paper was
pulped in the soaking water between 45-60 seconds, blended with cement
for 30 seconds. The blender was rinsed between batches. 16 fluid oz
of margarita mix, 4 oz of tequila and six ice cubes were added to the
experimenter to help with processing.

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[papercreters] Extreme Makeover

I saw were there is one of Extreme Makeover's house going for foreclosure, would like to see them try a papercrete job in one week.

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[papercreters] Re: PC+Woodchips+sawdust = OK?

I hadn't thought about lime, but it makes sense. I'll make sure I have
some on hand when I start doing test blocks. Unfortunatly that will
not be for a couple of weeks.

I do have some latex paint, and I'm planning on trying adding it too.

I was going to ask if you knew the R-value for mother-in-laws, but
since they tend to generate so much heat, I should ask for a BTU rating.

==>paul

>
> Add lime to your papercrete. It will help it adhere to things
> better. This is not a panacea, but it's helpful.
>
> Generally speaking. Papercrete doesn't really like to stick to
> things very well.
>
> Well... maybe it does. I just sticks to the wrong things.
>
> It sticks to my hair pretty well.
> It likes sticking to my clothes, especially my socks.
> It seems to be very attracted to anything that has a pretty paint job
> or finish... like cars... or furniture...
>
> I wonder how well it would stick to ... A MOTHER IN LAW?
> (I'll allow someone else to report on that experiment. Pictures
> requested!)
>

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[papercreters] Creative use of PC!! -artsy stuff

OH! my favorite topic!! non-house build use of PC-type recipes

Like I say.. it's an IDEA so many ways to use it. this is where that
CELLULOSE newspaper insulation comes in strong. also just paper +
clay can work great too.

I made up lime + clay + cellulose mix into a mold.. it is good for
plaster as I've said, , not PC blocks.. but the fluffy cotton-candy
like cellulose takes well to shaping into small forms, molds, etc.

CROWN MOLDING- I save the long cardboard V shaped slats that come from
washing machine and stove shipping boxes. these are 4' long, can have
pc mix applied onto them, and sculpted or embed items into to make a
'ceiling molding' or wall trim, picture frame

Modern molding is heavy resin or styrofoam type stuff anyway-- the
ceiling medallions are too. so you could make your own. Making a
bunch of small shapes - flowers, dots, etc then attaching to the PC
medallion form, then paint.. save your self $50 for a blank
medallion.

I found that using the Chinese lime+ paper recipe** see below that I
can make the poured/cast gypsum stuff so big in the 19405- 50s

all those plaques of dancing girls, pink cherubs, sail boats, Spanish
dancers on the walls of homes were cast plaster of Paris.)

I tried using fine cross shredded paper, with the lime soaked for a
month, then pressed into a mold.. I used copper cookie molds, and
anything deep enough to make a pattern show up on top.

I did not do fine scroll work or lacy stuff.. but there is a web site
that does this with gyp and plaster Paris, very popular and fancy
sheet molds are sold.
www.victorialarsen.com
She sells mostly lacy "ladies" stuff for decoration.. but a fine
papercrete mix could certainly be painted, once molded and dried.

cookie cutters in heart shape, etc let you do a nice practice run.

I used to make heart shaped samples of fibercrete and my guy customers
thought I was flirting! ( well...maybe I was <wink> a new husband
could come in handy sometime!)

Also what came out GREAT for art was a PC/fibercrete mix cut into
thick hearts, with a hole in the top. I tied raffia paper string
thru, and bundled 6 hearts with raffia tied around the neck of a large
jug..so I made a nice look.

Paper beads, face masks, yard art stuff can be sculpted with PC. the
trick is to let it DRAIN on a screen, keep going back and testing by
shaping with your hands.. when it is best workable for you is the
time to start making shapes. use wire armature, etc like papier
mache. adding more real clay- fire clay ( the stuff used in pottery)
clay to these mixes makes them more workable too..
--

Chinese Lime Plaster recipe I made a drinking cup by molding this
stuff over a glass.. turned back to limestone... used it for a flower
jar until i broke it.

Chinese recipe for Paper Lime plaster [interior use]

By WEIGHT-1 part (lb.) chopped/shredded paper-office paper – or
newspaper insulation to 10 parts (lb.) soft lime putty (type N or S
hydrated lime soaked in water 48 hours)

Mix well in large bucket or bin with tight lid. Seal lid.

Let mellow 2-4 weeks, stir in 1/2-1 parts sharp sand to make more trowelable.

Mix with paint stem/paddle blade to make creamy..

Spread on wall by hand or trowel. Sculpt and dry. feather edges thin
at stop points.

Can be limewashed; embed tiles while soft.

Adding extra sand gives a stronger, more old world plaster/mortar
look; for outdoor use eliminate paper or coat with sealer, or
waterglass.

Note from Charmaine: Successfully applied to new and old DRYWALL,
particle board on my work studio & bathroom walls.

resources:
National Lime Assoc www.lime.org/
Pargeting-decorative lime www.kettlenet.co.uk/ << gorgeous UK
fancy molding
US Parks Building articles: www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/presbhom.htm
Lime plaster on Straw Bales: http://solarhaven.org/Construction4Lime.htm
Tadelakt lime plaster- www.naturalpaint.com.au/
Building Conservation-Lime articles: www.buildingconservation.com/

Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
Toll Free Order: 1-888-441-1632
www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534

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Many intricate moldings were originally made in paper mache from molds. They would be quite light and easily installed.

 

Lisa
WYGODSKY@Comcast.Net

---

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of slurryguy
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:30 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Art + Architecture

 

Susan's birdbath got me thinking.

I'm curious how our artistic members would approach some of the more
decorative items that are commonly found in a house.

How would our artists think about creating an intricate crown
molding? Some of them can get very intricate. Here's a few very
traditional examples:
http://www.buffaloah.com/a/del/864/int/image/19.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/5kzcnc
or
http://blogs.move.com/first-time-home-buyers/wp-
content/blogs.dir/21/files/2007/07/1282844_14f8cd2f2d.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/635byx
or
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/graphics/articles/art_60493_moldmagicle
ad.gif
http://tinyurl.com/6mm2zk

I'm not necessarily interested in duplicating something like that,
but many people might be.

You can easily imagine someone getting really involved with it if
they wanted to.

It seems to me that something like that could get intalled into just
about any standard stick-built home that is getting built today. I
can easily imagine a good artist selling very intricate custom
moldings for very high-end homes. You wouldn't be making large
volumes of papercrete, but you certainly could make a large
impression.

I'm wondering how difficult it might be to create a fancy form that
can create the patterns into a glorified block that can then be
installed after it dries.

What about other embellishments in a house?

What about other moldings?

This is clearly an area beyond my expertise. I have less artistic
talent than these artists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KW5y7SmQq4

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[papercreters] Udi Update?

I just realized that it has been a long time since Udi, sheelakasha,
first posted some pictures of the outdoor furniture he built.

Have you built anything more with papercrete since then?

What?

Where?

Any more pictures?

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[papercreters] Re: PC+Woodchips+sawdust = OK?

Add lime to your papercrete. It will help it adhere to things
better. This is not a panacea, but it's helpful.

Generally speaking. Papercrete doesn't really like to stick to
things very well.

Well... maybe it does. I just sticks to the wrong things.

It sticks to my hair pretty well.
It likes sticking to my clothes, especially my socks.
It seems to be very attracted to anything that has a pretty paint job
or finish... like cars... or furniture...

I wonder how well it would stick to ... A MOTHER IN LAW?
(I'll allow someone else to report on that experiment. Pictures
requested!)

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Paul S. Hetrick"
<homesteadpaul@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Before I got a tow mixer, I was considering a German-style woodchip
> and clay slurry, but if I can get the PC to stick to the wood, it
> should be stronger.
>
> The sawdust I plan on trying is course flakes from a large saw.
I'm
> guessing it would make a tougher block than fine sawdust will.
>
> I wonder if I could distill off some escential oil from some cedar
> and add it to the mix....
>
> I'm hoping the more input I get, the less experimenting I'll have
to
> do before I build, and the first shed will be an experiment
itself.
>
> ==>paul
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Alan Stankevitz of daycreek.com tried something like that and
> didn't
> > like the results as much as just using paper only.
> >
> > I think either James Juczak or Paul Reavis worked hard on
> developing
> > a sawdust recipe and ended up switching to papercrete. I'm not
> > certain if I'm remembering things correctly or not. Both of them
> > eventually converted over to using mostly paper in their mixes.
> >
> > I've only tried 2 little batches with sawdust. I dumped the dust
> > collection bag from my belt sander into a batch. It was a
mixture
> of
> > soft and hardwood sawdust.
> >
> > My results were very weak blocks. They were crumbly compared to
> > paper only. Needless to say I wasn't impressed and haven't tried
> it
> > again.
> >
> > With more experimentation perhaps it can be improved. I do not
> know.
> >
> > I suspect that wood chips will make it even more crumbly, but
I've
> > never tried it.
> >
> > I have had the idea in the back of my mind of trying to include
> cedar
> > sawdust into a papercrete mix to create a kind of aromatic mix.
> > Cedar is also naturally pest resistant. I have no idea if it
would
> > work. Too many ideas to try and not enough time, energy, or
money
> to
> > try everything my demented mind comes up with.
> >
> > I strongly recommend that you TEST what you want to try before
> > comitting to it. Make sure it will work as you expect.
> >
> > When you do try it, please be certain to post about your efforts
> and
> > maybe even post a few pictures. Whether it works as you hoped or
> > not. We'll all learn from your efforts either way.
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Paul S. Hetrick"
> > <homesteadpaul@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Has anybody ever combined papercrete with woodchips and
sawdust?
> > What
> > > I'm thinking about doing is using woodchips with enough sawdust
> > added
> > > to fill in the larger gaps between the chips and then enough
> > papercrete
> > > to bind it all together. This would be for in-fill in a
> > timberframe
> > > house. The walls will be about 7" thick.
> > >
> > > The wood chips will be from the local recycling center, mostly
> > ground
> > > up shipping pallets. They shred pallets that are beyond repair
> and
> > > sell it as mulch. The sawdust will be course green stuff from
> > local
> > > sawmills, mostly oak, but I won't have a choice for what I get.
> > >
> > > I'm hoping to get a small shed (probably 10x12') built this
fall
> > before
> > > freezing weather sets in. If it goes well, I'll cut logs and
get
> > > started on the frame for the main house this winter and do the
in-
> > fill
> > > in the spring.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: More pictures of foundation fix

Thanks for the pictures, Hal.

This type of problem is not all that unusual when you jack up a house.

Keep watching all the windows and doors all over the house. It's
really easy to mess them up severely. Keep checking them every day
for a few weeks after a lift. The house will continue to resettle
back down on the new foundation and things can get out of whack.

If a load bearing beam cracked during the lift, major problems can
hide and then show themselves very quickly. If you see something
starting to sag, you'll need to quickly create some kind of shoring
support structure to hold it up while you figure out what happened.

Broken water feed?

Yeah... that's annoying, but it sounds like you caught it before it
became a flood and caused a lot of damage. You're doing very well if
that's the only problem you've had. I'd rather fix a broken pipe
than a cracked or broken beam any day.

You're moving tons of house around. Stuff is bound to happen.

Stay Safe.

===========================
Hal wrote:

I added more pictures of the foundation fix. See

http://www.flickr.com/photos/halschmidt/sets/72157605880299140/

I just uncovered another problem today, the water line going into the
house leaks badly. I turned the water on and check the changes I made
inside, and all was OK. I went to lunch and came back, checked the
meter and it was running. I then found a big mud puddle next to
where the pipe enters the house. Start digging and or call a
plumber. Good bye $$$

Hal

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[papercreters] Art + Architecture

Susan's birdbath got me thinking.

I'm curious how our artistic members would approach some of the more
decorative items that are commonly found in a house.

How would our artists think about creating an intricate crown
molding? Some of them can get very intricate. Here's a few very
traditional examples:
http://www.buffaloah.com/a/del/864/int/image/19.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/5kzcnc
or
http://blogs.move.com/first-time-home-buyers/wp-
content/blogs.dir/21/files/2007/07/1282844_14f8cd2f2d.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/635byx
or
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/graphics/articles/art_60493_moldmagicle
ad.gif
http://tinyurl.com/6mm2zk

I'm not necessarily interested in duplicating something like that,
but many people might be.

You can easily imagine someone getting really involved with it if
they wanted to.

It seems to me that something like that could get intalled into just
about any standard stick-built home that is getting built today. I
can easily imagine a good artist selling very intricate custom
moldings for very high-end homes. You wouldn't be making large
volumes of papercrete, but you certainly could make a large
impression.

I'm wondering how difficult it might be to create a fancy form that
can create the patterns into a glorified block that can then be
installed after it dries.

What about other embellishments in a house?

What about other moldings?

This is clearly an area beyond my expertise. I have less artistic
talent than these artists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KW5y7SmQq4

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[papercreters] Re: Recipe spreadsheet - suggestions?

>early answers: cardboard - this was a standard packing box run
dry through a four-sheet shredder from WalMart. The shreds are
approximately 1/8" wide. Now that it's soaked for 25 1/2 hours,
I'll have to have maybe double the cardboard dry weight to make a
thick enough slurry. If I were making any quantity of this and not
trying to have completely standardized ingredients, I would either
soak the boxes first so that a blade mixer (NOT a kitchen blender)
could shred the cardboard. The other thing I would wonder about is
whether or not the dry boxes could be cut with some type of saw.

About A, B, and F: My very first block was newspaper; the second
magazine. So far, they are different in appearance and I suspect,
physical properties. Due to the clay content of the magazine paper,
the magblock is heavier and has a smoother finish. The newsblock
more "popcorn" in appearance, and lighter in color and weight.
Slurryguy has mentioned that the newsblocks should be slightly better
for insulation.
>
> about the tests, I presume A,B & F will be very similiar in results.
about
> cardboard- I would like to see results & a description of the proces-
eg how
> hard was it to grind it 0:0
>
> good luck & thank you for taking this journy with al of us
> udi
>
> --
> ל×` פתרונות אקולו×'יים ×`× ×™-קיימא
> או×"×™ ×`ן ש×`ת | 077-3211225 | 052-2867971
>

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[papercreters] Re: PC+Woodchips+sawdust = OK?

Thanks,

Before I got a tow mixer, I was considering a German-style woodchip
and clay slurry, but if I can get the PC to stick to the wood, it
should be stronger.

The sawdust I plan on trying is course flakes from a large saw. I'm
guessing it would make a tougher block than fine sawdust will.

I wonder if I could distill off some escential oil from some cedar
and add it to the mix....

I'm hoping the more input I get, the less experimenting I'll have to
do before I build, and the first shed will be an experiment itself.

==>paul

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@...>
wrote:
>
> Alan Stankevitz of daycreek.com tried something like that and
didn't
> like the results as much as just using paper only.
>
> I think either James Juczak or Paul Reavis worked hard on
developing
> a sawdust recipe and ended up switching to papercrete. I'm not
> certain if I'm remembering things correctly or not. Both of them
> eventually converted over to using mostly paper in their mixes.
>
> I've only tried 2 little batches with sawdust. I dumped the dust
> collection bag from my belt sander into a batch. It was a mixture
of
> soft and hardwood sawdust.
>
> My results were very weak blocks. They were crumbly compared to
> paper only. Needless to say I wasn't impressed and haven't tried
it
> again.
>
> With more experimentation perhaps it can be improved. I do not
know.
>
> I suspect that wood chips will make it even more crumbly, but I've
> never tried it.
>
> I have had the idea in the back of my mind of trying to include
cedar
> sawdust into a papercrete mix to create a kind of aromatic mix.
> Cedar is also naturally pest resistant. I have no idea if it would
> work. Too many ideas to try and not enough time, energy, or money
to
> try everything my demented mind comes up with.
>
> I strongly recommend that you TEST what you want to try before
> comitting to it. Make sure it will work as you expect.
>
> When you do try it, please be certain to post about your efforts
and
> maybe even post a few pictures. Whether it works as you hoped or
> not. We'll all learn from your efforts either way.
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Paul S. Hetrick"
> <homesteadpaul@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anybody ever combined papercrete with woodchips and sawdust?
> What
> > I'm thinking about doing is using woodchips with enough sawdust
> added
> > to fill in the larger gaps between the chips and then enough
> papercrete
> > to bind it all together. This would be for in-fill in a
> timberframe
> > house. The walls will be about 7" thick.
> >
> > The wood chips will be from the local recycling center, mostly
> ground
> > up shipping pallets. They shred pallets that are beyond repair
and
> > sell it as mulch. The sawdust will be course green stuff from
> local
> > sawmills, mostly oak, but I won't have a choice for what I get.
> >
> > I'm hoping to get a small shed (probably 10x12') built this fall
> before
> > freezing weather sets in. If it goes well, I'll cut logs and get
> > started on the frame for the main house this winter and do the in-
> fill
> > in the spring.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>

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[papercreters] PC-Sawdust or WCC-works perfect- no cement needed

yes I use sawdust and chips almost exclusively.. NO mixer is needed,
just a hand drill for smaller projects.

Redwood sawdust when mixed with lime and clay make a perfect
fibercrete fopr infill, wall plaster and sculpted items. I dont use
cement..but gert good results in all I do with these materials.

there are germans methods that and NOT papercrete- two different
aniumals...and it's been used for 800 years so I know it is a good
material to use. 8 story building in germany are simply timber framed
with infill of wc , clay, small stones ( called nogging) clay and
lime.

try everything.search for light straw clay too.

while papecrete is focused on using cement.. it should not be compared
to the more natural mixes which produceexcellent results.

checl out the articles oon www.papercrete.com MANY people use what
they have.. which is chips or sawdust..easy to mix and use. Steve
Chappell in Fox Maple, Joiners Quarterly mag, teaches classes on wall
infill for a natural no burn wall mix. ( yes the studs can burn, but
clay does not) when coated over chips and straw it make is too hard
to flame.

there is a good article at JQ magazine online about wood chip clay--
search "proclay" and see the German article.

--
Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
Toll Free Order: 1-888-441-1632
www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534

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[papercreters] More pictures of foundation fix

Slurryguy and others,

I added more pictures of the foundation fix.  See

http://www.flickr.com/photos/halschmidt/sets/72157605880299140/

I just uncovered another problem today, the water line going into the house leaks badly. I turned the water on and check the changes I made inside, and all was OK.  I went to lunch and came back, checked the meter and it was running.  I then found a big mud puddle next to where the pipe enters the house. Start digging and or call a plumber.  Good bye $$$

Hal
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[papercreters] Birdbath -was- Re: very fine paper pulp

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@...>
wrote:
>
> Welcome to the group, Susan.
>
> Nice birdbath.
>
> How difficult is it to keep clean? Do droppings stick to it?

I get a few bird droppings, not many, and those are easily taken care
of with a toothbrush. I guess my birds are pretty polite.
>
> Please keep sharing and helping others. You might find a few ideas
> here that can help you also. Do you have more pictures that you
can
> post that show the process you use to sculpt with your custom
version
> of papercrete?

I definitely will keep reading and learning. Don't expect I'll ever
be in a position to build a papercrete house, but the process
fascinates me and there's sure to be some tricks that might be useful
for the sculpture I do.

I will take some digital photos of the next batch of papercrete clay
I make and of it's application. And I'll see if I can make some notes
and get a more definitive recipe, too.

Thanks for all the nice comments about my work.

Susan
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "sryanart" <sryanart@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ngrdh" <hnegaard@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I am looking for suggestions on how to get a very finely ground
> > slurry paper pulp. I don't
> > > want the normal bumps and pieces that normal papercrete has;
I'd
> > like it to be very smooth
> > > and finely chopped so you would not even know that it is paper.
> > >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I was going to start with a more formal introduction--I am the
> Susan
> > Ryan who has been mentioned recently on this list--but I work
with
> a
> > version of pulp that produces a clay that gives me a nice
> > hard,surface.
> >
> > This is not, however, realistic for large quantities.
> >
> > Very quickly--
> >
> > 1. I use torn newspaper--torn to about 2" by 2". Believe it or
not,
> > size makes a difference. Movement in water helps to break down
the
> > fibers smoothly. Shredded newspaper actually seems to take longer
> to
> > break down.
> >
> > 2. I cover the newspaper with water and soak 1-3 days.
> >
> > 3. I bring the newspaper water to a boil on the stove and then
> > (carefully) break it up into a smooth gray pulp (looks like gray,
> > fluffy cream of wheat) using a paint mixer attachment on an
> electric
> > drill. There can't be too much paper in the water or the
newspaper
> > won't move properly and break down. Too much water, and it moves
> > around too much and doesn't break down easily either.
> >
> > 4. Once cooled, I slop a few handfulls at a time into a cotton
dish
> > rag and twist it up to squeeze most of the water out.
> >
> > 5. To this semi-moist pulp I add: Elmers white glue and a little
> > vermiculite and then knead with my hands. Depending on the feel
of
> > the clay, I can add a little more water, a little more glue,
and/or
> a
> > little more vermiculite.
> >
> > 6. Once I have a clay that fels nice, I throw on a dusting of
> > portland cement and mix in with my hands. The grittiness of the
> > cement seems to help tear the fibers into a finer clay.
> >
> > At least I think this is how I do it. :>) It's a lot like
cooking...
> > I don't have a definitive recipe. I mix by feel and sight. The
glue
> > makes the clay silky and workable, but too much makes it too
> stickly
> > to work. Too much water makes the clay too sloppy and results in
> too
> > much shrinkage. Too dry and the clay is unworkable. Vermiculite
can
> > dry up clay that's too wet, but too much can make it lumpy.
> >
> > Sometimes I add Plaster of Paris or Rock Hard water putty to the
> clay
> > and this gives me a finished product that has a nice, hard
surface.
> > It can be sawed and sanded.
> >
> > One critical element in getting a smooth finished surface is in
> > letting the clay dry more slowly (not direct heat--like with a
> lamp)
> > and in keeping the water content down.
> >
> > A few years ago I found through the papercreters site and was
> > absolutely impressed and charmed by the wonderful structures you
> all
> > were building. That's when I decided to try adding portland
cement
> to
> > my clay. All I had to go by was some comment from one of
> > the "builders" that it only takes a small amount of cement in the
> > slurry.
> >
> > So, when I added cement to my clay I called it papercrete--for
lack
> > of a better name. I hope this is OK and doesn't step on
anyobody's
> > toes.
> >
> > I messed around a little with papercrete because I was looking
for
> > something that could hold up to being outside. Don't know if I
got
> > that something or not. I am definitely still experimenting.
> >
> > However, in regards to the birdbath I made out of papercrete--I
> used
> > a silicon-based exterior water sealer on it. Sealed the raw PC
with
> > it and then applied coats of sealer with artists oils added to
make
> > stains. It held up well through last summer, though some moisture
> was
> > wicked up through the feet, but not in any way that damaged
either
> > finish of form. I took it in for the winter and put it back
outside
> > recently.
> >
> > Yes, I did worry about the birds taking water from something that
> was
> > sealed with this stuff, but I thought that once it had dried it
> would
> > not be a danger.
> >
> > I am definitly no expert with papercrete. I have done a lot more
> work
> > with the regular paper pulp and know much more about that. But if
I
> > can answer any questions, I'll be glad to give it a shot.
> >
> > BTW. This is my first post. Ever--anywhere. So I hope I have not
> done
> > anything inappropriate.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Susan
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: very fine paper pulp

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ngrdh" <hnegaard@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for suggestions on how to get a very finely ground
> slurry paper pulp. I don't want the normal bumps and pieces that
> normal papercrete has; I'd like it to be very smooth and finely
> chopped so you would not even know that it is paper. I'm thinking
> along the lines of a industrial blender with a cutting action?

With a rotary nozzle on the pressure washer I can make pulp as smooth
as I want. Takes a bit more time, but you can get it down to a thick
batter consistency as opposed to the normal oatmeal consistency. Will
require a bit of water being drained off for sculpting use, I suspect.

If you are not sure about putting a couple hundred into the washer and
nozzle, try borrowing one from a friend or neighbor first. Worst case,
you can rent one at your local rental outlet for around $50.

- Ernie

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[papercreters] Re: PC+Woodchips+sawdust = OK?

Alan Stankevitz of daycreek.com tried something like that and didn't
like the results as much as just using paper only.

I think either James Juczak or Paul Reavis worked hard on developing
a sawdust recipe and ended up switching to papercrete. I'm not
certain if I'm remembering things correctly or not. Both of them
eventually converted over to using mostly paper in their mixes.

I've only tried 2 little batches with sawdust. I dumped the dust
collection bag from my belt sander into a batch. It was a mixture of
soft and hardwood sawdust.

My results were very weak blocks. They were crumbly compared to
paper only. Needless to say I wasn't impressed and haven't tried it
again.

With more experimentation perhaps it can be improved. I do not know.

I suspect that wood chips will make it even more crumbly, but I've
never tried it.

I have had the idea in the back of my mind of trying to include cedar
sawdust into a papercrete mix to create a kind of aromatic mix.
Cedar is also naturally pest resistant. I have no idea if it would
work. Too many ideas to try and not enough time, energy, or money to
try everything my demented mind comes up with.

I strongly recommend that you TEST what you want to try before
comitting to it. Make sure it will work as you expect.

When you do try it, please be certain to post about your efforts and
maybe even post a few pictures. Whether it works as you hoped or
not. We'll all learn from your efforts either way.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Paul S. Hetrick"
<homesteadpaul@...> wrote:
>
> Has anybody ever combined papercrete with woodchips and sawdust?
What
> I'm thinking about doing is using woodchips with enough sawdust
added
> to fill in the larger gaps between the chips and then enough
papercrete
> to bind it all together. This would be for in-fill in a
timberframe
> house. The walls will be about 7" thick.
>
> The wood chips will be from the local recycling center, mostly
ground
> up shipping pallets. They shred pallets that are beyond repair and
> sell it as mulch. The sawdust will be course green stuff from
local
> sawmills, mostly oak, but I won't have a choice for what I get.
>
> I'm hoping to get a small shed (probably 10x12') built this fall
before
> freezing weather sets in. If it goes well, I'll cut logs and get
> started on the frame for the main house this winter and do the in-
fill
> in the spring.
>
> Thanks
>

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