[papercreters] Re: pole barn (house) construction with PC infill

Spaceman's comments are right on target.

I'll attempt to expand and add more detailed suggestions.

Keep in mind that there are several different methods of accomplishing things. The following are just one way.

You may already know this, but for those that do not...
Timberframes and Pole Barns have many similarities, but usually a Timberframe is a more specific description. It appears you are building a Timberframe, which is a wicked-cool structure with wooden supports and beams and fancy wood joinery. The frame itself is a work of art. Almost always the wooden framework is exposed on the inside to show off the awesomeness of the beauty of the structure itself.

Pole barns are often utility structures that may appear to be similar at first glance on paper, but are often built from metal and use all sorts of mechanical fasteners, that are often less attractive. No big deal leaving pole barn structures exposed in a shop or a barn, but in a house, pole barn structure elements usually get buried in the walls to hide them. (Once in a while they are left exposed, but usually not.)

Spaceman's responses to your query were right on target. I'll attempt to expand with more of those details you asked for.

Foundation
This is the first place to look. Many timberframes or pole barns are built on pier foundations. This is not a problem, and you can still build the frame of the structure with this type of foundation if you choose.

However, you will still need a foundation to support your papercrete walls. This can take many forms. Options include:

Rubble trench foundation, Earthbag gravelbag stemwall. (Cheapest, but hardest to get code approval for.)

Rubble Trench Foundation, Poured concrete or cement block, or stone masonry stemwall. (Modest price, modest difficulty in code approval.)

Pier and Beam foundation. (Build a platform suspended above the ground with a crawlspace underneath. With good drawings, code approval is fairly easy. Expense can vary dramatically depending upon what is used to build the platform and how much work you do yourself.)

Traditional poured concrete footers and poured stemwalls or concrete block stemwalls. (Most expensive, but easiest to get approved.)


Where do you place that foundation? Depends on where you want your walls.

Pier and beam can share the foundation of the Timberframe or Pole Barn, but those piers will need to be large enough to handle the load of the frame as well as the rest of the structure. Calculate accordingly.

If you are building a pole barn and want to hide the post structure from view by burying the posts inside the walls, then run the trenches for rubble trench or poured concrete footers between the piers.

If you are building a Timberframe and want to show off the magnificent wooden frame on the inside, then run the trenches on the outside of the piers. Contrastingly, if you want to show off the wooden frame on the outside and keep seamless walls on the interior, then run the trenches inside the Timberframe piers.

Search the web for more information about each different type of foundation.

Toe Ups.
I recommend toe ups for your walls. Toe ups are a practice commonly used in Strawbale construction. You build a platform that extends a few inches above finished floor height out of materials that drain well and handle water well. This is added insurance, and very cheap to do. The point is to have the bottom few inches of the wall above finished floor height be able to easily withstand any plumbing pipe breaks and small interior flooding with ease. This prevents your papercrete walls from getting wet and wicking moisture up into the wall, always a good thing. Make sure your Toe ups are completely sealed to keep your wall from having air leaks. Nobody wants a draft on their feet in the winter.

Search "Strawbale Wall Toe Ups" for more information.


Constructing your walls.
Spaceman's advice is solid. Slipforms are less work than laying blocks. However, I would offer the suggestion that a hybrid wall may be easiest. Slipform using the posts to help hold formwork in place until you run out of space to pour in more slurry at the top of the wall near the roof. Then use papercrete blocks to finish the top of the wall before a box beam, and then above a box beam to fill gaps as necessary. It's probably best to pour your blocks early in the project so that they will be dry by the time you need to handle them when your walls get tall. Dry blocks are much lighter and easier to handle than partially dried once. They are far far less fragile too.

You also can consider pouring entire full height wall sections at once. The posts of the Timberframe would make excellent joint locations. The key to making this system work well is to be able to make a large enough amount of slurry continuously. In other words, complete a section between two posts in one day, maybe two if you work all night and aren't afraid of losing some sleep. Plan your papercrete mixer size and power accordingly. This method can move constuction pace along extremely quickly if you have the right equipment or craploads of helpers doing the manual labor. I recommend a really good reliable trash pump and the biggest mixer you can build for this technique to work well. Preparation and attention to details beforehand is a must. Keep your form work extremely strong so you don't have blowouts at the base of a wall. That would be a nasty mess to clean up. Better safe than sorry. Build strong forms.

No matter what system you choose, make certain to secure the walls to the posts of the frame as you go. You don't want a wall to fall over once you remove the formwork.


Box Beam/Bond Beam.

Once your walls are near full height, you want to build a beam across the top of the wall that will tie the top of the wall to the posts. Even though a Timberframe or Pole Barn won't be relying on the tensile strength of the wall to keep the roof from blowing off, I still recommend running twine or strapping from the box beam/bond beam all the way down to the foundation. It just makes everything stronger and more stable. The entire wall will stiffen up significantly. These twines and straps can get buried inside plaster and stucco, or underneath other wall finishes.

Plastering.
Keep in mind that you can choose to use other finishing methods. You can use shingles, clapboards, board/batten, various siding options, stone or brick vaneer if you want. Plaster and Stucco is usually the least expensive. However, exterior plaster and stucco are also the least forgiving as far as continual maintenance. One exterior crack can allow rain to penetrate the wall and soak your papercrete. This needs to be avoided.

If you use plaster or stucco mesh. Consider using ties that also attach the mesh to the Timberframe posts. This will add a lot of structural strength to the walls.


HVAC.
Where you can, run HVAC ductwork near the timberframe, under the floor if you have an insulated crawl space, in the attic, and/or in interior partition walls. Plan ahead and think it through before you even start building your foundation. Have a plan drawn on paper, but be prepared to adapt as you build. Plans always seem to have a way of changing unexpectedly.

If it becomes necessary to run ductwork along a papercrete exterior wall, consider a mechanical bumpout. Try to work it into the plan to become some kind of interesting architectural feature instead of a strange drywall box attached to the wall with ductwork inside. Make it blend in. Let the bump out help frame a doorway or window opening, or some other architectural feature if possible.

Plumbing.
As in standard construction, plan ahead carefully. It's best to avoid wall penetrations. Run pipes under the ground just after the foundation is dug, but before the foundation is laid. Insulate any hydronic heating tubing feed conduits as necessary, and any hot water piping that you plan to bury. Nothing particularly unusual about this practice as it concerns papercrete. Just follow standard procedures for underground plumbing right after digging the foundation.

Electrical
Best to run conduits in the attic or underground just after the foundation is dug, but before the foundation is laid down.

Ideally, use electrical conduit and attach it to the posts so that it will get covered by papercrete as the walls go up. Just leave the conduit runs a little long so that they will stick out of the wall as the wall is built. You can cut them off later. Might be good to cover each end with a block of wood or something to avoid harpooning your leg as you walk by during construction. Remove the safefy block when you cut off the conduits.

For places where you need an outlet on an exterior wall that is not next to a post, you have several options.
1. Conduit underground, poking out at the wall location.
2. Bury conduit inside the wall as you pour it/lay it up with blocks. (Awkward, but doable. Best to not do this very often, but once or twice should not be too much frustration.)
3. Put a spacer in your formwork to leave a channel in the papercrete to add conduit or wiring later.
4. Cut a channel in the wall after the wall is built using a chainsaw or other saw. Then run the rough wiring, and patch the wall.

Electrical boxes will attach well to papercrete, but you'll want to use screws instead of nails.


Making a quality home is all about the details. You are wise to ask about them and think ahead.


--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "overogypsy" <overogypsy@...> wrote:
>
> I was looking through all the post and could not find any DETAILED instruction (except for country ???) to tell us how to do what we are trying to do and if it will work.
> This is what we are trying to do.
> We are going to build a pole barn (house) and infill between the space with PC blocks. It will be a two story 35X35 house with clerestory windows. Like the one shown here.
>
> Salt Box House Plan Has Clerestory Windows For Passive Solar Heating
> nwjoinery.com
>
> Our question is. If we fill in the space between the posts wouldn't we lose the R value at the posts ?
> Also, if we spray PC on the inside and outside of the PC walls how do we keep with from gathering moisture in the wall as many others have mentioned. What would be a better finish that the PC to protect from moisture?
> We live in MT and it gets rather cold here :-(
> Thank you for the help
>




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