I just looked at your http://starship-enterprises.net/Papercrete/Mixer/index.html -- that's exactly what I needed. Was trying to explain it to a local guy yesterday and your pics are worth several thousand words. Thanks!
I'll send you an email too.
Christine
At 10:43 AM 10/20/2010, you wrote:
Hi Christine,
Thanks for the links. Being a desert dweller myself, I found some interesting tidbits.
I have built several tow mixers for different people and have assisted several others in building their own. If you are interested, contact me off list and we can talk.
spaceman All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information. http://Starship-Enterprises.Net
On 10/20/2010 12:58 AM, Christine Baker wrote:
Hi all, I've just been lurking here because I have nothing to contribute about papercrete yet. We're using adobe and would like to use papercrete above windows and doors and possibly for the roof and some projects, but we are off the grid in the high desert (NW Arizona) and don't have enough power to run a mixer a lot. Need to have someone make a tow mixer for us or somehow figure out how to mix without burning a lot of fuel unless we get the $$$ for more solar panels.
We also don't want to work for "the man" and started organic gardening (permaculture) and sure are learning a lot. Fortunately our dirt isn't particularly problematic (aside from lots of rocks and caliche and little organic matter) and we have good water, but have to haul it.
We were inspired by Greening the Desert at http://permaculture.org.au/2009/12/11/greening-the-desert-ii-final/ and this Australian site has great resources.
I also highly recommend the organic gardening Yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GardeningOrganically/
So we decided that it was more important to improve our soil and to get trees and bushes started (the wind is more destructive than the sun) than to continue building. We started with covered garden beds and purchased mulch, but are now in the process of using cover crops and landscape waste from neighbors to build up soil on our 1 acre and we just planted almost 50 bushes and trees.
Find out what other LOCALS are growing. We learned a lot by checking out garage sales and talking to people and we offer free pickup of downed Joshua trees. Desert people are often not very social, many moved to the desert to get away from people, just like us. :)
You have your work cut out for you and it's going to be tough if you're by yourself. We try to document how things work out for us at http://trado.info/permaculture/, hopefully we'll catch up posting a gazillion pictures of our first growing season in winter.
Hope you can make it work, your water is what worries me most. You can amend soil, but it'll be a hassle and possibly expensive if you have to filter the water for your garden.
Christine
At 07:08 PM 10/19/2010, you wrote:
Hi Joel, I know where you're talking about in a general sense. Are you east of the lake? There's a large whitened section of land on Google Maps. If that's anywhere near you then I think we both have similar issues.
My first orientation regarding soil is vegetation! I don't want to retire in some desert where I can't grow my veggies and always have more than I need so I can trade or sell things as my ultimate goal is to be self sufficient, no longer working for the man, and living a life from morning to night exactly how I want to which is independent and free. I'm nearly vegetarian, I would say 90% vegetarian, so it's important to me to have a working setup. If I have to do raised beds for veggies, no problem, thats a pretty good way of going about things. I am prepared for that. But at the moment my heart sank because I have asked more questions and gotten more responses from the lady at the Community Center. Looks like fruit trees are out of the question for the time being :( I can say that because I've gotten a lot of clues to go by. I am close to saying this is Sodium Carbonate. Possibly Sodium Bicarbonate which is baking soda. It is gritty and pure white and gets really small pieces that rub your skin smoother when you rub them together with some wetted down. I'm told the water in my area tastes like baking soda. But I recall somewhere some time ago a word or two regarding Soda Lake not being baking soda but very similar which is why I say Sodium Carbonate.
Oh that reminds me, you asked where my property is. Okay, my property is located nearest to Coalinga Trail and Clarksberg Road in California Valley. Here's a map centered on my property. It is 330 x 330 feet or 2.5 acres and next to the northwest corner lot. All lots in California Valley are 2.5 acres unless they are odd shaped or different. It's interesting how that works out, you start off with 640 acre section and then start dividing it down in 1/4's and you eventually get to 2.5 acres, and you will find that pattern all over the west, and perhaps even the midwest. So when you zoom out you will start to see little squares on the landscape and thats lots with homes or lots cleared and left empty or abandoned properties.
California Valley is in the center of the Carrizo Plain, which is one of the or the newest member in the Federal Park system. Bill Clinton signed that one into existence and I thank Bill for that as the land was being razed every year and turned into a dust bowl. The Carrizo Plain National Monument/Park is being returned to its bygone era where there is seasonal grazing and they do not allow the ranchers to graze forever, they have time permits with BLM overseers. This is like enforcing a level of use that allows it to simulate nature as the Carrizo is long called the Serengeti of North America. The spring time is magnificent. I do not think you would disagree with me there. Look at this one photograph I took entitled " The Mountains and the Purple Majesty" That is just a taste of the beauty there which is a rainbow of yellows, oranges, blues, purples, browns (chocolate lily), greens obviously, reds, whites and what else am I leaving out? But that beauty is short lived, as the Serengeti of Africa is. But I kind of think it's beautiful just vast empty land with interesting mountains on all sides, it's very picturesque I think.
Soda Lake is the main centerpiece of the Carrizo Plain. I am very drawn to it. It can be absolutely breath taking. The wildflowers grow next to the salt brush lining the shores. A special variety of the same flowers found elsewhere. They have adapted to the soda water and they try very hard to live, and I solute them for what they are, prime examples of urge energy. That's why I uploaded this particular photograph.
You mentioned silt on your site. I think I have plenty of that too, actually. I did such a cursory inspection last weekend, next weekend I will be armed with more information and a great curiousity, I'm going to take a soil sample and send it to Western Laboratories. Maybe I should take two. One on one of the whitened areas, and one of the non-whitened areas. Well I am getting excited. I don't care if this property has problems. Shoot man, life has problems everywhere. Might as well pick a place to stop moving so you can start building a future based on what you can afford. I don't have it in me to slave for the man for another 30 years with a death-pledge (mort-gage), and post business failure I lack the savings I had before so I don't care if I have to work the soil for a long time to make it better. I am investigating things and I'll come up with some solution that works for me.
Thanks for the interest and best wishes on your site too. Can you share some more about your property too?
Perry
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 5:52 PM, joel <joelincalif@aim.com> wrote:
- Interesting story Perry! I'm interested to see what you find out.
- I too bought some land in California, mine is north of Reno just on the California side - sorta near Honey Lake. Mine is covered with a layer of silt and scrub plants from a very old lake bed. Where is your place?
- Perhaps some of the farm extension offices in Central California would be able to provide some help to define the soil quality and what those crystals are.
- Joel
- --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Perry Way <perryway@...> wrote:
- >
- > Hello papercreters, I have some happy news and not so happy news. First the
- > happy news, I bought a parcel of land! It is 2.5 acres in the Central
- > Californian outback. It is off the grid but if I want to pipe into
- > electricity it is one lot away.
- >
- > The not so happy news stems from my newfound apprehension about my first
- > holes dug on the property.
- >
- > I need to find someone who has some knowledge or experience on soil. Before
- > I build I need to know what I'm up against on this property. There are
- > patches of the soil which are thin of vegetation and has a white powder on
- > the surface. So I dug some holes, the white part seemed to be kind of
- > shallow and once I got down deeper than that it looked like very very nice
- > clay-loam soil. Easily breaks up and all probably because it is all fluffed
- > up from vegatation with a kazillion microscopic roots in just one shovel
- > full. As I dug deeper though, the soil looked very nice. It has
- > practically no sand, but it has a lot of loam. So I grabbed a handful to do
- > a compression test on it. Squeezed and released and it stuck together real
- > good and it got smaller too. So I kept squeezing to see how compact I could
- > get it with just my hand and it had to have compressed at least 1/3 to 1/2.
- > Suddenly I had visions of a cob house. This soil is really good for cob, I
- > think. But maybe not.... A day later, I'm at work to pass the good news to
- > my buddy about buying this land. So I found my clay ball, it had lots of
- > white crystals forming on the surface! Now hours later, the area I swiped
- > with my finger is regrowing little hairs little crystals forming on the
- > surface. Now this soil came from deep in the hole I dug. It had nothing
- > visible white about it at all. It was only moist. (we just had a spot of
- > rain a couple of times in the past week at that location). Fast forward to
- > another hole I dug, I dug about half a dozen holes in various places. This
- > other hole I dug I got down to the clay where it is noticeably clay and hard
- > to dig and I got a half a shovel full of it and noticed white specks in the
- > clay. More than specks actually. About 1/4 inch in size they were
- > everywhere equally. Not so the clay looked white, but more like how much
- > chocolate is in chocolate chip ice cream on one of the cheap brands. Back
- > to the clay ball forming white powder on surface, I had had visions of
- > perimeter fruit trees, some row crops (its 2.5 acres) and an off the grid
- > cob house which is dirt cheap (haha) but now I'm wondering about soil
- > quality not just for the fruit trees in my mind but also for anything that
- > would use the soil. In other words I'm wondering if I would be able to use
- > this soil in papercrete as an additive, or rammed earth, or cob or adobe or
- > whatever uses there are for soil for that matter.
- >
- > Back to finding someone with knowledge or experience on soil, if anyone has
- > someone they could direct me to, I'd appreciate it a lot!
- >
- > Perry
- >
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