--
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__._,_.___
Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." (Obamacare)
I use bales of cellulose because they are very convenient (compressed, dry, ready to mix). In my formula I use about 1/3 of a bale (which cost about $8-9 around here) and one bag of portland, along with about 5-7 cubic feet of EPS beads to make one batch of fairly stout EPIC. Adding more EPS will give more volume but less strength.
The blown cellulose fiber is treated with boric acid which reacts with the portland to give off a nasty ammonia smell so its not suitable for indoor use. I use either a gas powered (towable) mortar mixer or an electric hand held mortar mixer, depending on how many batches I need to make.
A set of pictures of the dome built from this material is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/album/861895350/pic/list
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[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]
Hi Judith,
How are you doing? Hope your summer is going well.
We have decided to sell our fibercrete mixer and I am not on the Yahoo site for papercrete anymore and was wondering if you knew of anyone who might be interested in buying this mixer?
It has a Tecumsah engine with approx 50 hours on it. Mixes 50 gallons of paper and water. Was very efficient and fast and is
still in great condition, we will throw in the cart as well. My squidoo lens shows pictures of Aaron using the mixer and cart,http://www.squidoo.com/buildagreenhome. We are asking $500.00 for mixer and cart. If you know anyone, Aaron's number is 719-937-1607. Current Pictures are below.
Thanks,
Sharron
Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS
3 of 3 Photo(s)
AIUI the main purpose of siding (we seldom use it here) is to keep rain off, and contain fibreglass insulation. So burlap plus bitumen would make more sense, it would make basic homebrewed shingles.
But like pvc, bitumen forms a vapour barrier and if you have that on the outside of insulation it must be vented enough to allow condensation to run out, dont try and seal it up tight.
If you could use synthetic scrap cloth rather than burlap it would last longer. Use fibreglass and it lasts even longer.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, calle vallede <valledecalle@...> wrote:
>
> Hi we bought an old old old old fixer upper house.
>
> We can not afford to rebuild after the fire last yr.
>
> The siding on.this house is bad very very bad. Can not afford to replace.
>
> I.do have a free supply of burlap bags.
>
> Could we dip them in papercreate and nail them up or is somekind of cheap cement mix.
>
> It looks so bad and I would love to do something this fall.
>
> Please any and all ideas welcome.
>
> C
>
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No go on the newspaper rolls here. Yes they give it away but there is a $2 deposit on the core which you get back when you return it. With price of gas its not worth the bother. Just our situation here in Dallas. Might work elsewhere.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@...> wrote:
>
> our local small newspaper always is offering the ends of the paper
> rolls..these are prolly big, but not unmanageable, and as it's newsprint,
> it may break down easier in mixer..and it will be clean for sure.
>
> i'd call the news paper publisher in your area.
> --
> *Charmaine *
>
> Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
> PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
> www.papercrete.com
>
> *Robert Heinlein* (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a
> man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be
> good for him." (Obamacare)
>
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In our community, we have developmentally disabled adults who shred for all of the local companies. I picked up three hundred trash bags of shred last week-end.
I'm just starting papercrete, but it's nice to know that I have two people shredding forty hours per week to provide me with paper. Having it all shredded makes for easy mixing.
Hmmm... I'm going to have to pick up some more today... hope it's not too much...
- Paul
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Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." (Obamacare)
I had the opposite experience here. Everyone I talked to had a contract
with a Mexican company that buys the paper from them and hauls it across
the border. Nobody would tell me the name of the company or give me any
contact information.
I had friends save their newspapers and junk mail for me but that wasn't
enough and they eventually got tired of it. I ended up buying paper at
three times the market value from a recycling company, in 1,500# bales.
Thankfully one of the company's drivers lives not far from me, and will
make me his last load of the day on the way home. It's not easy getting
a bale off a flatbed without a forklift!
Living on the border isn't good if you want junk or recyclables. That
sort of thing is valuable "over there".
spaceman
On 7/20/2013 10:25 AM, zenseeker70 wrote:
> I just call the local trash company and ask them what they do with their paper. Typically they have to truck it long distances and are not compensated much for it. They just barely break even on hauling it. So I asked them if they would give me some paper, they were not only more than happy to drop off 2-4 ton at a time, but said it saved them alot of work and headache to do so.
>
> It is alot of paper to deal with at one time, but it's worth it.
>
> Tad
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "JayH" <slurryguy@...> wrote:
>> Many banks, hospitals, lawyers' offices, accountants, and other offices that deal with very large amounts of confidential paperwork often pay for professional shredding services to come and take stuff by the ton to destroy for them.
>>
>> In the right situation, an enterprising Papercreter might actually be able to set up a small business where one could make some money chopping up large amounts of paper by the ton.
>>
>> You'd need to be able to respond to requests on the customer's timetable though. You won't win many customers over by responding, "I'll be over to pick it up in the late spring once construction season starts." You also won't be allowed to pick up the documents and hold them till you need to build something.
>>
>> It probably makes sense for someone that is planning on making lots of blocks, and has an indoor area where they can mix papercrete and make blocks year round.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ion Gorun <gorunweb@> wrote:
>>> Banks have to shred all paper they thorw away.
>>>
>>> Furniture stores throw away tons of cardboard.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> -----
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I just call the local trash company and ask them what they do with their paper. Typically they have to truck it long distances and are not compensated much for it. They just barely break even on hauling it. So I asked them if they would give me some paper, they were not only more than happy to drop off 2-4 ton at a time, but said it saved them alot of work and headache to do so.
It is alot of paper to deal with at one time, but it's worth it.
Tad
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "JayH" <slurryguy@...> wrote:
>
> Many banks, hospitals, lawyers' offices, accountants, and other offices that deal with very large amounts of confidential paperwork often pay for professional shredding services to come and take stuff by the ton to destroy for them.
>
> In the right situation, an enterprising Papercreter might actually be able to set up a small business where one could make some money chopping up large amounts of paper by the ton.
>
> You'd need to be able to respond to requests on the customer's timetable though. You won't win many customers over by responding, "I'll be over to pick it up in the late spring once construction season starts." You also won't be allowed to pick up the documents and hold them till you need to build something.
>
> It probably makes sense for someone that is planning on making lots of blocks, and has an indoor area where they can mix papercrete and make blocks year round.
>
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ion Gorun <gorunweb@> wrote:
> >
> > Banks have to shred all paper they thorw away.
> >
> > Furniture stores throw away tons of cardboard.
> >
> >
>
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Many banks, hospitals, lawyers' offices, accountants, and other offices that deal with very large amounts of confidential paperwork often pay for professional shredding services to come and take stuff by the ton to destroy for them.
In the right situation, an enterprising Papercreter might actually be able to set up a small business where one could make some money chopping up large amounts of paper by the ton.
You'd need to be able to respond to requests on the customer's timetable though. You won't win many customers over by responding, "I'll be over to pick it up in the late spring once construction season starts." You also won't be allowed to pick up the documents and hold them till you need to build something.
It probably makes sense for someone that is planning on making lots of blocks, and has an indoor area where they can mix papercrete and make blocks year round.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ion Gorun <gorunweb@...> wrote:
>
> Banks have to shred all paper they thorw away.
>
> Furniture stores throw away tons of cardboard.
>
>
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Feedbags to feed a papercrete mixer. Seems appropriate.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> In some cities, plucking the newspaper from the recycle boxes can get
> you charged with theft. Find out first what your cities attitude is.
>
> Another suggestion: If you local feed mill uses all paper bags, they
> are great and most recycle places won't take them.
>
> Bright Blessings,
> Garth & Kim Travis
> www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> Bedias, Texas
>
> On 7/18/2013 7:58 AM, john mcginnis wrote:
>
> > * In areas where paper is part of the muni recycle mantra just pluck it
> > out of the green boxes on trash day.
> >
>
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That is an awesome arrangement.
I suspect that each postmaster is different and may or may not cooperate in such an arrangment, but it's a great idea.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Vickey McDonald <vickeym@...> wrote:
>
> The local post office has been great for us! Phone books...they usually
> get lots more than their box holders need. They also get all kind of sales
> circulars, ours frequently gets little newspapers than many box holders
> don't want and more than they can use.
>
> We talked to the postmaster there, and they now leave a package pickup slip
> in our box when they have some for us.
>
> Vickey in Alaska
>
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Banks have to shred all paper they thorw away.
Furniture stores throw away tons of cardboard.
Good suggestions all, John. Thanks.
Keep them coming folks.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, john mcginnis <maruadventurer@...> wrote:
>
> * Walk into a Sams Club and talk to a manager. The ones around here bale
> their cardboard then it sits outside. If it gets wet it has no value to
> them or their recycling partner. They will most likely thank you for
> hauling it off for them. Otherwise its in the trash.
>
> * Ask you neighbors to set aside their paper products and collect them once
> a week.
>
> * In areas where paper is part of the muni recycle mantra just pluck it out
> of the green boxes on trash day.
>
> * Schools. If they don't already recycle set up a bin for them.
>
> * Copy centers. Tons of waste paper flows thru them. Work up a deal.
>
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "JayH" <slurryguy@...> wrote:
>
> I just thought of another category of ideas that really should be included in this thread.
>
> TOOLS OF THE TRADE.
>
> Please mention any tools, equipment, or other items that make the process of collecting, and hauling paper easier, cheaper, and quicker. Obviously this begins with a good truck and/or a good trailer that can be used to haul paper. However, don't limit your thinking to transportation only. Perhaps you have a really cool setup for loading, unloading, sorting, etc, etc, etc. which saves lots of time and money. Please let everyone know.
>
> So... that makes 3 categories of ideas for this thread, (and perhaps more categories as we think of them)
>
> SOURCES OF PAPER
> METHODS OF COLLECTION
> TOOLS OF THE TRADE
>
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Greetings,
In some cities, plucking the newspaper from the recycle boxes can get
you charged with theft. Find out first what your cities attitude is.
Another suggestion: If you local feed mill uses all paper bags, they
are great and most recycle places won't take them.
Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas
On 7/18/2013 7:58 AM, john mcginnis wrote:
> * In areas where paper is part of the muni recycle mantra just pluck it
> out of the green boxes on trash day.
>
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Good suggestions all, John. Thanks.
Keep them coming folks.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, john mcginnis <maruadventurer@...> wrote:
>
> * Walk into a Sams Club and talk to a manager. The ones around here bale
> their cardboard then it sits outside. If it gets wet it has no value to
> them or their recycling partner. They will most likely thank you for
> hauling it off for them. Otherwise its in the trash.
>
> * Ask you neighbors to set aside their paper products and collect them once
> a week.
>
> * In areas where paper is part of the muni recycle mantra just pluck it out
> of the green boxes on trash day.
>
> * Schools. If they don't already recycle set up a bin for them.
>
> * Copy centers. Tons of waste paper flows thru them. Work up a deal.
>
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "JayH" <slurryguy@...> wrote:
>
> I just thought of another category of ideas that really should be included in this thread.
>
> TOOLS OF THE TRADE.
>
> Please mention any tools, equipment, or other items that make the process of collecting, and hauling paper easier, cheaper, and quicker. Obviously this begins with a good truck and/or a good trailer that can be used to haul paper. However, don't limit your thinking to transportation only. Perhaps you have a really cool setup for loading, unloading, sorting, etc, etc, etc. which saves lots of time and money. Please let everyone know.
>
> So... that makes 3 categories of ideas for this thread, (and perhaps more categories as we think of them)
>
> SOURCES OF PAPER
> METHODS OF COLLECTION
> TOOLS OF THE TRADE
>
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There is a video of cellulose insulation being mixed in a normal concrete mixer at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbBxpDTFduc&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLXpLRUWa3Pn0
I used a few bales. First, it is very expensive at about $6 a cubic foot here. As Charmaine says, it stinks like a cat box. That does decrease upon drying.
The panels I cast had a tendency to crumble, no tensile strength to speak of. When you hit one of these panels you get a dull thud instead of a nice ringing knock that sounds like wood with normal pc. I have one bale that I never used, been sitting in the back of my truck for over a year. Nope, didn't like it!
The only advantage that I see is that it does mix easily. Way too many disadvantages to counter that, though.
spaceman
On 7/17/2013 1:10 PM, Charmaine Taylor wrote:
I got some free broken bales of the blow in type..Cocoon brand, they are treated with fire retarder and stink like urine when wet, very acrid, ...smell goes away once dry, also gives no 'omph" or bulk like shredded paper does. so there is no tensile strength with paper fibers going every direction..
It IS good when mixed with plaster of paris or clay or lime for a wall plaster tho. very smooth and goes on nice with a trowel over most surfaces.the paper is so microscopically shredded it is like cotton candy,
when dry and blown it it traps air, and offer good insulation just not for casting PC blocks,,,in my experience.
if I had some free i''d add it to a real papercrete mix, just to use it up.
like to hear if some has made a successful PC product with it.
--
Charmaine
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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I just thought of another category of ideas that really should be included in this thread.
TOOLS OF THE TRADE.
Please mention any tools, equipment, or other items that make the process of collecting, and hauling paper easier, cheaper, and quicker. Obviously this begins with a good truck and/or a good trailer that can be used to haul paper. However, don't limit your thinking to transportation only. Perhaps you have a really cool setup for loading, unloading, sorting, etc, etc, etc. which saves lots of time and money. Please let everyone know.
So... that makes 3 categories of ideas for this thread, (and perhaps more categories as we think of them)
SOURCES OF PAPER
METHODS OF COLLECTION
TOOLS OF THE TRADE
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First, let me start by apologizing. I know it. This topic has been discussed before. Several times we have talked about it.
In spite of that fact, I think there are still lessons to be learned.
Any time I see a thread on papercreters discussing using cellulose insulation in papercrete, I always end up asking myself, "Why? Paper is everywhere. Why would someone pay for a raw material that they can get for free?" Whenever this question pops into my head, I end up with the same 2 answers.
A1. Someone doesn't have a papercrete mixer that is capable of chopping up used paper, and is intimidated, or otherwise restricted, at the prospect of building a papercrete mixer, so they resort to purchasing cellulose insulation instead.
A2. Can't find free paper.
Each person needs to do what is best for their own situation, but I find both answers to be lacking.
So, once again, I think it is appropriate to discuss how, where, when to find free paper (and cardboard.) I invite all of our long time members who have gone down this path before to bear with me, and even to suck it up and contribute to this topic another time.
This time, I want to break this topic up into several categories that I see as important in the paper gathering process.
SOURCES OF PAPER
These are places where people should be encouraged to search for free paper (and cardboard).
METHODS OF COLLECTION
This focuses on tips and tricks of the trade. Not so much where to get the paper, but how. Please discuss the techniques you use that make the process easier, less time consuming, and limit the travel/hauling distances required to collet the paper and transport it to your construction site.
I really would like everyone to contribute in creating a thread that contains every idea for a place to get paper, and every easy method to get the paper where it is needed with minimal effort and minimal cost. I also suggest that our long time members bookmark this thread from the Papercreters message archive, and refer back to it in the future. Every time someone mentions a new source of paper, or a neat trick that makes the collection process easier, quicker, less expensive, or better in any other way, to add it to this thread.
The goal is for this thread to become the authoritative comprehensive how-to reference source for getting free paper. Have every conceivable idea get added to this thread. Even several years from now, if a new idea gets mentioned in another thread, I hope someone will post another new reply to this thread and keep adding to it. At the same time, any time someone asks about finding paper, which is a frequently asked question, it would be great to simply refer them to this forever expanding thread that hopefully will contain just about everything there is to know about collecting paper.
Just a note... I will reply with my own thoughts on this topic later, but I prefer to give everyone else first crack at it.
So, ladies and gents. Dump your paper here.
Your paper collection ideas and suggestions, that is.
Think of this thread as one big giant blue recycling box just for paper collecting ideas.
What works for you? Where are the best places you have found paper/cardboard? Lets get all these answers in one easy to find location.
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