Papercreters: November 2008

Saturday, November 29, 2008

[papercreters] sawdust fibercrete bricks

Hi Charmaine

Does it matter what kind of sawdust? Do the bricks come out any more
uniform than papercrete? Can this mix withstand exposure to the
weather at all?
TIA

++++++++++++++++++

Yes they are solid and strong- and i have left them exposed to the elements on the back deck for 3 years as a test, and they slowly round down their edges, but stay intact unless handled roughly.. since one will plaster over papecrete and bricks anyway this is my easy solution to building, less mold issues, and faster as no big honking barrell mixer and blade is needed to shred the paper.

I bet if cement were added my bricks would be the same as reg. papercrete, and similar in weight/maybe better in insulation.

I do use clay and lime- no cement for a more natural mix, am using infilled not loadbrearing blocks, and am happy with the easy building it affords me.

be sure to "cure" any fresh sawdust for 6- 8 weeks- but just letting it set around in bins or bags, or exposed to light. the sugars will affect the cement strength and wont set up if you just took a fresh pile of sawdust and used it.

we have mills here and small operators who have big piles of sawdust avail outside free for the taking... you can find a local wood ship too, they make bags of dust daily. a local place makes wood cutting boards, guitar pieces, decorative wood pieces and I get huge sacks od sawdust (mostly hardwood) from them.

I do not know the diff. in soft vs hard, but the US forestry labs in MI and IL have tons of reports on this.. search online
--
Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534

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Friday, November 28, 2008

[papercreters] Re: AUGER- vs MY wringer WASHMACHINE MIXER

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Charmaine Taylor"
<dirtcheapbuilderbooks@...> wrote:
>
> Charmaine has used an old washing machine and had good batches,
> but IIRC it took quite a while to break up. Correct me if I'm
> wrong, Charmaine.
>
> --
>
> hI spaceman- nope, you iz wrong.. I usly only redwood sawdust and
fine
> cross shredded paper,and have had great success as a MIXER using the old
> wringer washer it just agitates the small paper and sawdust very well..
> does not chop.. so for a nice slow mixer -- I fill with water 1/3
full, add
> wet clay and sawdust and some lime, and let it run -- chuga chuga--
for 30
> minutes, and have the perfect wet mix to pour into blocks--- or I
place A
> window screen over the washer, and dump a bucket of mix on it, and
let it
> drain a bit-- the longer it drains the stiffer and more sculptable
the mix--
> great for making shaped objects-- like animal figures, pottery -over
wire
> mesh type work. or into a block form, and then left to dry in the
sun...
> since I do not add cement I need not worry over it sitting in the
washer
> for days on end, just add more water and turn on again to stir it up.
>
> the 3 winged upright blade of the washer agitator just swivels sharply
> back and forth- in a 90 deg. arc, so it blends in all the clay
well.. and
> has a nice sound to work by.... kinda the "female touch" to alt.
> building.. but themn I started out making "kitchencrete" with my
blender and
> fppd propcessors, using strainers, cookie pans, big forks, tuna cans to
> bake test samples in a roaster bag to mimic 90 day cure--- and
branched out
> to bigger equirment like the wringer washer <grin>
>
> Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
> www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
> PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534
>

Hi Charmaine

Does it matter what kind of sawdust? Do the bricks come out any more
uniform than papercrete? Can this mix withstand exposure to the
weather at all?
TIA

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Re: [papercreters] pole auger

Pictures can be posted on the list, but they will not be archived, and will not appear in the digest. Only people getting individual messages will see them. The better way would be to upload them into the files section of the list. I say files rather than photos because photos are derezed by the yahooligans and become low quality. Files are not tampered with, and if you click on a link to a jpg, it will open in your browser at the original resolution.

Actually, both would be good. Include the picture in your post, but also upload it as a file at the group home page, and include the link in your message. That way everyone on the list will have a chance to see it.

http://starship-enterprises.net/spraypercrete/smallerfiles/

Spaceman

Bob Gilbert wrote:

I also am following this thread as I have an auger. could you send me  pictures also.  Thanks, Bob   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Charmaine Taylor" <dirtcheapbuilderbooks@gmail.com> To: <papercreters@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: [papercreters] pole auger

Here is my next "out of the box" idea.  A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.  Any thoughts?  Thanks,  Tom --    Tom- the use of a small boat turbine blade on the end of a stem powered by a 1/2 HP motor has shredded paper very well in a plastic drum.. so on design principle it might work....  I can email you a pic on request   Ms. Charmaine  Taylor/ Taylor Publishing 707 441-1632 www.dirtcheapbuilder.com   www. papercrete.com

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[papercreters] AUGER- vs MY wringer WASHMACHINE MIXER

Charmaine has used an old washing machine and had good batches,
but IIRC it took quite a while to break up. Correct me if I'm
wrong, Charmaine.

--

hI spaceman- nope, you iz wrong.. I usly only redwood sawdust and fine cross shredded paper,and have had great success as a MIXER using the old wringer washer it just agitates the small paper and sawdust very well.. does not chop.. so for a nice slow mixer -- I fill with water 1/3 full, add wet clay and sawdust and some lime, and let it run -- chuga chuga-- for 30 minutes, and have the perfect wet mix to pour into blocks--- or I place A window screen over the washer, and dump a bucket of mix on it, and let it drain a bit-- the longer it drains the stiffer and more sculptable the mix-- great for making shaped objects-- like animal figures, pottery -over wire mesh type work. or into a block form, and then left to dry in the sun... since I do not add cement I need not worry over it sitting in the washer for days on end, just add more water and turn on again to stir it up.

the 3 winged upright blade of the washer agitator just swivels sharply back and forth- in a 90 deg. arc, so it blends in all the clay well.. and has a nice sound to work by.... kinda the "female touch" to alt. building.. but themn I started out making "kitchencrete" with my blender and fppd propcessors, using strainers, cookie pans, big forks, tuna cans to bake test samples in a roaster bag to mimic 90 day cure--- and branched out to bigger equirment like the wringer washer <grin>

Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] pole auger

I also am following this thread as I have an auger. could you send me
pictures also.

Thanks,
Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charmaine Taylor" <dirtcheapbuilderbooks@gmail.com>
To: <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:05 PM
Subject: [papercreters] pole auger

> Here is my next "out of the box" idea.
>
> A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
> this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
> a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
> keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> --
>
>
> Tom- the use of a small boat turbine blade on the end of a stem
> powered by a 1/2 HP motor has shredded paper very well in a plastic
> drum.. so on design principle it might work.... I can email you a pic
> on request
>
>
> Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
> 707 441-1632
> www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1803 - Release Date: 11/21/2008
9:37 AM

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: pole auger

Little caution- I have used an auger to mix the heavies- works good
-remember the auger is strong enough to throw you and it over an 8
foot fence- be safe - Clyde--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com,
"Charmaine Taylor" <dirtcheapbuilderbooks@...> wrote:
>
> Here is my next "out of the box" idea.
>
> A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
> this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
> a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
> keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> --
>
>
> Tom- the use of a small boat turbine blade on the end of a stem
> powered by a 1/2 HP motor has shredded paper very well in a plastic
> drum.. so on design principle it might work.... I can email you a pic
> on request
>
>
> Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
> 707 441-1632
> www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
> PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Update on press

Well we have had good progress this week the base is mounted the
motor and punps are mounted the hyd levers too.Are starting to mount
the cylinders today and make the gate,push ram.Iv made some test
bricks 1 pc and portland 50/50/compressed 50%,2 pc/portland silica
sand ,3 pc/drywall silica sand.Paper,portland,silica when compressed
makes a nice solid brick,we put it into our hyd stand press just to
see if it would work.At 500 psi it was 2 min and we took it out ,was
nice and solid,just paper and portland compressed to much.The drywall
portland and silica and paper hmmm bruce dint mush it up well and it
has lumps but more experiments instore for the weekend.We saw a
friend from an oil company and showed him a test brick ,i have
imbeded a pice of drill stem into a block of pc and silica mix and
compressed it 50% in 1 hr you could lift it buy the pipe is very
dense,he will be taking it to Calgary for testing by the company he
works for as soon as it cures.He called them and they want to see it
asap.We have had lots of people shooting at the well sites and
bursting pipes ,if we can encase them with this it will be huge.I
also contacted the center for reserch and innovation and they will
help document this stuff for free and help us get gov grants for
testing, recycling.Has been a awsome week.Well dont eat to much
turkey and just remember who your giving thanks to this weekend,God
bless chat to you soon,Clair.ps will post some pics tonight.

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[papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?

Sounds good but i think it will be to slow,im building a 55 gal one
with a lawnmower eng attached at the bottom with a plate and strong
post and bushing will be done tomorrow.Will post some pics.

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?

I have had better luck with faster speeds with my mixers. You want the paper to completely come apart into individual fibers, and slow agitation just doesn't seem to break it up very fast. Charmaine has used an old washing machine and had good batches, but IIRC it took quite a while to break up. Correct me if I'm wrong, Charmaine.

Does the auger reverse? I've been thinking about a mixer that would push paper through a heavy grill, using something like that auger put into a pipe that fits snugly. It might push pulp through a steel grate, grinding it along the way.

At first I was thrilled with the spray washer mixing, but I'm looking for parts to fix the big no-tow mixer now. The spray washer does a good job, it just takes too long compared to that whirling blade. I bought the biggest power washer I could find, powered by a 13hp motor and making 4,000 psi at 3.6gpm, so even though I normally run it at about 3/4 throttle that should be plenty of power. It takes a 50 gallon drum about 20 minutes to fill up. In the same time I can do 150 gallons in the large mixer, don't have to stand there and wiggle the wand, and don't get wet from splashback. I toss in paper and turn on the water, start the engine, let out the clutch, set the throttle, and walk away for 15 minutes. By then the paper is pretty much pulped and the tank is full so I come back and turn off the water, and rev the engine a few times to make sure there are no hidden lumps, and it's done. Much easier and 3x as fast in production. Plus I can work on something else during those 15 minutes, like setting up the next load with paper and additives measured out, working on forms, unclogging the pump, stuff like that.

Spaceman

synergialearning wrote:

Well the unit I am looking at puts out 150 ft lb of torque! Remember these things are designed to dig through hard dirt. I have seen some folks here using drill motors for 55 gallon batches. I think this would have more torque. Slower rpm though so I am still wondering about that. What is the rpm of the average tow mixer?  Thanks for any input.  Tom

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Thursday, November 27, 2008

[papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?

Well the unit I am looking at puts out 150 ft lb of torque! Remember
these things are designed to dig through hard dirt. I have seen some
folks here using drill motors for 55 gallon batches. I think this
would have more torque. Slower rpm though so I am still wondering
about that. What is the rpm of the average tow mixer?

Thanks for any input.

Tom

In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "David-\"The Hern\"" <jerrydave1@...>
wrote:
>
> Sounds good to me homey, but I wonder if a lack of torque torque might
> ness you up.
>
> Try it and see!
>
> Dave.
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "synergialearning" <tweistar@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Here is my next "out of the box" idea.
> >
> > A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
> > this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
> > a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
> > keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "David-\"The Hern\""
<jerrydave1@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds good to me homey, but I wonder if a lack of torque torque might
> ness you up.
>
> Try it and see!
>
> Dave.
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "synergialearning" <tweistar@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Here is my next "out of the box" idea.
> >
> > A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
> > this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
> > a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
> > keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
Lack of torque? I don't think so... A post hole digger can knock you n
your butt. I think its a good idea. I would want to make it so it
can't jump out of the bottom bushing though, or you could have a good
bit of excitement when it starts banging around in the barrel at 160RPM
MarkC

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?

Most post hole augers that I have used do not lack in torque so it might be a great alternative to try.

Ben

--- On Thu, 11/27/08, David-"The Hern" <jerrydave1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: David-"The Hern" <jerrydave1@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:18 PM

Sounds good to me homey, but I wonder if a lack of torque torque might
ness you up.

Try it and see!

Dave.
--- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, "synergialearning" <tweistar@.. .>
wrote:
>
> Here is my next "out of the box" idea.
>
> A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
> this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
> a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
> keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Power post hole auger mixer?

Sounds good to me homey, but I wonder if a lack of torque torque might
ness you up.

Try it and see!

Dave.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "synergialearning" <tweistar@...>
wrote:
>
> Here is my next "out of the box" idea.
>
> A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
> this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
> a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
> keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] pole auger

Here is my next "out of the box" idea.

A Power post hole auger in side a 55 gallon drum. Has any one tried
this? You could put a cutter type blade on the bottom of the auger and
a steel plate in the bottom of the barrel with a centering bushing to
keep the auger centered. The auger rpm is about 160.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom
--

Tom- the use of a small boat turbine blade on the end of a stem
powered by a 1/2 HP motor has shredded paper very well in a plastic
drum.. so on design principle it might work.... I can email you a pic
on request

Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
707 441-1632
www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534

------------------------------------

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Re: [papercreters] Re: 11/27/08

Well at least it's the dry and dusty side of Texas. haha

--- On Thu, 11/27/08, Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: 11/27/08
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 6:06 PM

Same to you from the Giant Side of Texas!

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, peddler8111 <fpcharnock@earthlin k.net> wrote:

From: peddler8111 <fpcharnock@earthlin k.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: 11/27/08
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:21 PM

--- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspec tor@...> wrote:
>
> Hope all have a GREAT and safe turkeyday.
>

You to!

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: 11/27/08

Same to you from the Giant Side of Texas!

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, peddler8111 <fpcharnock@earthlink.net> wrote:

From: peddler8111 <fpcharnock@earthlink.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: 11/27/08
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:21 PM

--- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspec tor@...> wrote:
>
> Hope all have a GREAT and safe turkeyday.
>

You to!

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Power post hole auger mixer?

Here is my next "out of the box" idea.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom

------------------------------------

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Wednesday, November 26, 2008

[papercreters] Re: 11/27/08

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspector@...> wrote:
>
> Hope all have a GREAT and safe turkeyday.
>

You to!

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[papercreters] 11/27/08

Hope all have a GREAT and safe turkeyday.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Friday, November 21, 2008

[papercreters] Hyd. pump

Hi everyone.well my partner and i have the motor and hyd pumps mounted
on a base now.My partner (bruce aka shrek) has used 2 1980s dodge power
steering pumps.They have a built in relife valve and have adiquit power
for the 2 cylinders we will be using.He also said buy removing the
pully and a washer thats in behind it you can increse the output of the
punp.You can always find one if it dies in the middle of a job prety
much anywhere.We have a 13hp honda clone motor to run them with and a
two stage pully.I have rangeld the camera from my dauter and will take
some pics today Have a great friday ,Clair ps it would be nice to see
some profile pics ,will make it more of a community .Just make sure you
dont put a full face view ,have a photo with some one in it or some
thing like a phone or a brick have to be safe.

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[papercreters] papercret Travel Trailer

Greetings all,Just curious but..Has anyone out there tried building a
travel trailer or any other kind of RV with Papercrete. I think it
would work great but am not sure about the papercretes resistance to
vibration.??I covered two walls on my back outside porch about 4 years
ago with it and put two coats of latex paint on it. It still looks
great.{Except one area that was exposed to run off from the roof
outside of the porch.}
keep up the great work!!
Thank You,
Dave B.

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Thursday, November 20, 2008

[papercreters] Re: Compressed Blocks

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "smt460" <smt460@...> wrote:
>
> -
> Hi Ernie,what about adding a bonding agent to the stucco mix? Like
> drywall which in essance is plaster of paris it can also replace
> the portland cement powder,i have read this on living in paper or
> the press can have small groves when its pushed out.I dont see a
> problem with it sticking because of its molecular structure they
> are both the same product.

In this case, the latex paint is acting as a bonding agent. Others
have I believe used hydrated lime plasters (Charmaine?), someone long
ago used ground up wall board (gypsum plaster). Others use a variety
of additives which might have a bonding agent effect, such as prickly
pear juice or various pozzolans via clay or other kaolin derivatives.

I think in the end it just comes down to testing it out and making
sure that whatever you use meets your particular bonding needs. There
are many roads here, all leading in the same direction.

- Ernie

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[papercreters] Re: Compressed Blocks

-
Hi Ernie,what about adding a bonding agent to the stucco mix? Like
drywall which in essance is plaster of paris it can also replace the
portland cement powder,i have read this on living in paper or the
press can have small groves when its pushed out.I dont see a problem
with it sticking because of its molecular structure they are both the
same product.
As far as latex paint in the mix we have done this with ceiling
texture in large hotels to keep people from jumping up and draging
there hands accross the ceiling and knocking it off,it actualy will
make your fingers bleed. Clair.

-- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ernie Phelps" <eepjr24@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ron Richter <ronerichter@>
wrote:
> > I didn't mean to make such a stir.
>
> <shrug> If we don't challenge assumptions and generally held
beliefs,
> we may never find the truth. I prefer to be annoyed and end up
knowing
> the truth. =)
>
> > Mulling this issue over just brought up another thought, does the
> > stucco adhere as well to the compressed block as it does to the
> > uneven surface of an uncompressed block that generally makes
uneven
> > rough surfaces for adhesion?
>
> In my (admittedly limited) experience, PC sticks reasonably well
even
> to smooth surfaces. For instance, it stuck quite well to my wheel
> burrow, concrete mixer and mortar mixer, all of which are smooth
> metal. It stuck to the edgers I use for my path, which are not so
> smooth concrete. It stuck to the molded step stones I made, which
are
> smoother concrete. It sticks to itself, although not as well unless
> you prewet it again. It also has a bit more trouble if you make it
> perfectly smooth (with a tamper in my case), but that would be more
of
> a problem in a monolithic pour, since blocks would still have edges
> and mortar lines to rough it up a bit.
>
> If I were going for a stucco'd end surface (and I will eventually),
I
> would not worry too much about making the wall smooth. It will get
> covered anyway in the end. But if it turns out you need to rough it
up
> a bit, there are plenty of ways to do that (chainsaw, hatchet, stiff
> garden rake, etc).
>
> Lastly, several folks have said that adding latex paint to the
stucco
> mix greatly increases it's stickiness, to the point where they used
it
> on metal shipping containers without a problem. You can find links
to
> the video in some earlier posts.
>
> - Ernie
>

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[papercreters] Re: Irregular blocks etc...

in support of Mike McCain- yes some of his blocks are duff, still some
are rock hard- I lost a 585,000.00 house in Virginia, twenty years
ago- I tried to do to much, and I did not know enough - some of what
appears on this site is inexperiance talking, still some is quite
genius - if any of you folks are serious about building with
alternatives, then you really should come stay with us at
www.evesgarden.org - Believe it, I have made so many mistakes over the
years that I will more than likely save you a bundle of head aches -
being self actualizing is great, still you must educate your selves
before diving in to deep - As to Mike, he is an inventive sort, not an
experianced builder - it takes both- let us work together - Clyde-- In
papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "peddler8111" <fpcharnock@...> wrote:
>
> I am really sorry for your loses.
> Knowing what you do know would you use papercrete for infill?
>

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Wednesday, November 19, 2008

RE: [papercreters] sources

Rice hulls allow you to build a more conventional modified stick frame . It might make sense even fairly far north. They are basically free which would offset a lot of the trucking and the reduced labor cost would as well. They grow rice in Missouri . The hulls weigh about 9 lb per cubic foot so for a 12 inch thick envelope around a 1400 square foot house , ceiling floor and walls it would take one full truckload . Actually not that much because of door and window cutouts.
I am assuming 4000 cubic feet per load including the weight of bags and pallets. So even a very large house say 750 miles north of Memphis , assuming 500.00 to purchase and 2 dollars a mile to truck it, it would cost 2000 for a small house and 4000 for a fairly large one. It may be possible to get a better rate than that now.
Considering the 2 to 3 dollar a bale and all that plastering and extra carpentry for the plates, drying and settling time , etc. I think it would be close .

I am going to try to cut a deal with one of the mills around Memphis to bag it for me.

Here is the info.

http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm

At 12:08 AM 11/20/2008 -0500, you wrote:

I don't know much about rice because it is a geographically availability thing. Up in the North Straw makes sense down south Rice likely makes sense

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.
www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Charnock
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:47 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

I am no sure why that would be, you still would have most of the bale insulating. You are going to mud the outside anyway. Personally I see no advantage at all in straw over rice hulls and the rice hull house is no problem meeting spec and goes up a lot faster, weeks faster.

At 03:52 PM 11/19/2008 -0500, you wrote:

That is an outdated method originally developed in Quebec but is no longer seen as useful. It cause frost bridging and defeats the r value of the wall.

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.
www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Charnock
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:26 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

I think if I was going to build with straw I would float the bales in clay
slip and seal all for sides before bringing them to the site. It would add
weight during construction and possibly be a slight negative on r value but
it would almost eliminate the fire hazard.
The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they
almost won't burn.

I love the idea of papercrete but I need to learn more before I would
chance building a house that way.

RE: [papercreters] sources

Yes, according to what I read you have to build a special furnace to burn them. If the fire rating is true they are incredible insulation and it makes building a house much faster and eliminates problems with code. You just build a modified stick frame 12 inch thick in the floor , ceiling and walls. You can also build with rice bags.

http://www.esrla.com/shotgun/frame.htm

r At 03:45 PM 11/19/2008 -0900, you wrote:

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Boersema
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:37 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Boersema
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:41 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

) or something. Once there is a little bed of coals in the reservoir the grain feeds in one two at a time and burn very efficiently. Not living in rice country I don't know about their hulls but I image it would be similar?

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.

www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spaceman
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:22 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [papercreters] sources

?

Rice hull stoves are very popular in some countries. The pictures I've seen look like they burn very well.
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/IRRI/Lotrau/Lotrau.html
http://www.reap-canada.com/bio_and_climate_3_3_1.htm

Why do you say they almost won't burn?

Spaceman

Forrest Charnock wrote:
The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they 
almost won't burn.
 
  
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1798 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 8:59 PM

RE: [papercreters] sources

I don't know much about rice because it is a geographically availability thing. Up in the North Straw makes sense down south Rice likely makes sense

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.

www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Charnock
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:47 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

I am no sure why that would be, you still would have most of the bale insulating. You are going to mud the outside anyway. Personally I see no advantage at all in straw over rice hulls and the rice hull house is no problem meeting spec and goes up a lot faster, weeks faster.

At 03:52 PM 11/19/2008 -0500, you wrote:

That is an outdated method originally developed in Quebec but is no longer seen as useful. It cause frost bridging and defeats the r value of the wall.

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.
www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Charnock
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:26 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

I think if I was going to build with straw I would float the bales in clay
slip and seal all for sides before bringing them to the site. It would add
weight during construction and possibly be a slight negative on r value but
it would almost eliminate the fire hazard.
The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they
almost won't burn.

I love the idea of papercrete but I need to learn more before I would
chance building a house that way.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] sources

In the tests done they passed the class a fire rating test for insulation as they are. This is strange, I looked up the rice hull stoves and they seem to contradict these tests results. I read about a rice hull furnace and it was obviously built t ignite material that resist it. I guess I will have to do my own test but these test were supposedly done at a professional facility in Tennessee. Maybe there use as a heating fuel is more feasible than I thought. I hope these tests are accurate.

ASTM Testing

Recent ASTM testing conducted R&D Services
of Cookville, Tennessee, have conclusively
demonstrated that rice hulls, in their raw and
unprocessed state, without the addition of any
chemicals, constitute a Class A or Class I
insulation material. Let us briefly review these
~~test results.~~

Design Density Test

~~The first test conducted by R&D Services~~

~~was a Design Density Test. The initial densities~~

Critical Radiant Flux Test

~~Three samples were tested according to test~~

~~method ASTM E 970. The average CRF was~~

~~0.29 W/cm2, the standard deviation was 0.015,~~

~~and the coefficient of variation was 0.05. All~~

~~three samples easily passed this test.~~

~~of the rice hulls were 7.729 and 7.488 lb/ft3.~~

~~After 24 hours of vibration, these two samples~~

~~increased to 9.972 and 9.807 lb/ft3respectively~~

Surface Burning Characteristics

The ASTM E84 Standard Test for Surface
Burning Characteristics of Building Materials
(ANSI 2.5, NFPA 255, UBC 8-1, UL 723)
was conducted by Omega Point Laboratories of
Elmendorf, Texas. The results here were
amazing. US building codes require a Fire
~~Spread Index of 25 or less. The FSI for rice hulls~~

Smoke Development Index

was 10. US building codes require a Smoke
Development Index of 450 or less. The SDI for
rice hulls was 50. Rice hulls, therefore, are
a Class A or Class I insulation material. The
United States produces over 1.2 M metric tons
of rice hulls annually, and often times, they
~~are available free-of-charge.~~

Smoldering Combustion Test

Three sample were tested according to test
method ASTM C 739, Section 14.
Sample 1 showed a weight loss of 0.07%,
Sample 2 showed a weight loss of 0.03%,
Sample 3 showed a weight loss of 0.03%.
~~All three sample passed this test.~~

Thermal Resistance

The rice hulls were tested according to test
method ASTM C 518.
Length of TimeR-per-inch
8.6 hours2.549
120.0 hours3.024
90.3 hours2.926
92.0 hours2.946

At 03:21 PM 11/19/2008 -0700, you wrote:

?

Rice hull stoves are very popular in some countries. The pictures I've seen look like they burn very well.
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/IRRI/Lotrau/Lotrau.html
http://www.reap-canada.com/bio_and_climate_3_3_1.htm

Why do you say they almost won't burn?

Spaceman

Forrest Charnock wrote:
 The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they  almost won't burn.    

RE: [papercreters] sources

That is an outdated method originally developed in Quebec but is no longer seen as useful. It cause frost bridging and defeats the r value of the wall.

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.
www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Charnock
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:26 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

I think if I was going to build with straw I would float the bales in clay
slip and seal all for sides before bringing them to the site. It would add
weight during construction and possibly be a slight negative on r value but
it would almost eliminate the fire hazard.
The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they
almost won't burn.

I love the idea of papercrete but I need to learn more before I would
chance building a house that way.

RE: [papercreters] sources

Rice Hull ash is a high quality pozzelon high in reactive silica

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Boersema
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:37 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Boersema
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:41 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [papercreters] sources

Corn stoves are very popular up here Spaceman but if you stick a match in a hand full of corn it don't burn worth a hoot. With grain stove in general you usually start them with a little starter briquette(sp?) or something. Once there is a little bed of coals in the reservoir the grain feeds in one two at a time and burn very efficiently. Not living in rice country I don't know about their hulls but I image it would be similar?

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.

www.qncommunications.com

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spaceman
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:22 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [papercreters] sources

?

Rice hull stoves are very popular in some countries. The pictures I've seen look like they burn very well.
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/IRRI/Lotrau/Lotrau.html
http://www.reap-canada.com/bio_and_climate_3_3_1.htm

Why do you say they almost won't burn?

Spaceman

Forrest Charnock wrote:

The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they

almost won't burn.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] sources

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.

www.qncommunications.com

The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they  almost won't burn.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] sources

Corn stoves are very popular up here Spaceman but if you stick a match in a hand full of corn it don't burn worth a hoot. With grain stove in general you usually start them with a little starter brackett or something. Once there is a little bed of coals in the reservoir the grain feeds in one two at a time and burn very efficiently. Not living in rice country I don't know about their hulls but I image it would be similar?

Nick

I teach folks how attract money online.

www.qncommunications.com

The rice hulls sound like the way to go as meeting code is easy and they  almost won't burn.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Saturday, November 29, 2008

Friday, November 28, 2008

Thursday, November 27, 2008

Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Friday, November 21, 2008

Thursday, November 20, 2008

Wednesday, November 19, 2008

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