Sunday, August 31, 2008

[papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

Hi, This is Clyde t. Curry at www.evesgarden.org . We ran extensive
tests for a year, integrating lime into the mix. Here is some of what
we think we found out. It appears that excess lime left unreacted from
the Portland Cement, which most people are adding to their mixes, is
the culprit for moisture retension. We have had buildings take over
two years too dry and stop shrinking and cracking. Lime by itself is
not strong enough and degrades over time. We looked at what the
concrete industry does to combat this problem. Answer- Pozzolan is
used to react the lime. - Still, flyash, volcanic ash and the sort are
not very reactive. Also they have to long an early set for processing
to occur. We found that Kaolin Clay based pozzolans are manufactured
to be super reactive. Google PowerPozz - Pozzolans are common practice
in Europe, Asia etc. - Pozzolans can be added to Lime only to make a
cement. Still, it would take to much Pozzolan. Our best results, by a
landslide, are obtained when we replace 10%, by weight, of the
portland cement we use as our binder, with Super reactive pozzolan.
With this mixture of cement and pozzolan plus the addition of an
aggregate (perlite, vermiculite, pumice, sand etc.) we get completion
of the drying and shrinkage phase in three weeks. This is for a
completed shell, plaster and all. We have much more to share - perhaps
the Moderator could call us at 1-432-386-4165 so we can do this with
out filling everyones mailbox. Yours Clyde


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Re: [papercreters] Paper strip versus Paper pulp

You could use just about anything to compress it. The finer you pulp the slurry, the more water that must drain before you start to press it. I use a plain ole steel plate tamper, 19.95@ Harbor Freight. I let the slurry drain for oh 5 to 25 minutes then press it with the tamper. Depending on the slurry mix it may compress 1 to 3 inches. My experience is is does not spring back, but then I am not putting 12 tons of pressure on it either. If you have a Cenva Ram, then try it.
Greg House <ghunicycle@yahoo.com> wrote:

Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com> wrote:

>One thing you can do to make PC much stronger is to compress it.

I'm curious about this. Once you compress it, does it spring back, or can you compress it one time shortly after pouring and have the PC stay compressed?

If so, will compressing it squeeze enough water out of the mix to allow you to move a block right away? That would allow you to use something similar to a Cinva Ram to squeeze it down.

Greg


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RE: [papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

I appreciate your sharing your papercrete pouring experience. After having read it several times I still have questions. Were you trying to pour an 8 foot high by 4" deep wall right up against the block wall? Was this to increase the R value or an aesthetic decision? What did you use for forms? Would the trash pump have worked if the miscellaneous junk hadn't gotten into the mix? Would you recommend slip forming over block construction, or would you try this method again? Were you finally able to finish your wall and how did it come out?

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l-williams.com.

There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world; and that is an idea whose time has come.                 Victor Hugo 1802-1885


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: bobcat4850@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 21:31:05 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

"GRINGO" <rabbit_usa2001@...> wrote:
Has anyone poured or pumped wall forms with papercrete ?

I don't think the formula is that critical but here are the problems i
encountered. i pumped to form 4 inches of pc inside an existing
concret block building.
1- the paper crete shrinks like crazy vertically. so a 8 foot form has
no advantage over slip forming.

2- If there is conduit on the walls or fastened to the form the
shrinking pc hangs up on it and leaves a gap under the obstruction.

3- if the block wall wasn't drilled and bolted to the forms the weight
of the pc bulged the block wall. so the forms for an 8 foot wall need
to be just a strong and ridged as if you where going to pour concrete.

4- i used a 2" trash pump and when it failed i had no back up. because
of the roof on the existing structure i could not even bucket it. but
who is going to bucket 600 gals of pc? the biggest source of pump
problems was blockage from trash in the used paper. sample credit
cards from junk mail bottle caps, plastic binding straps from who
knows where ect.
a larger pump maybe would work but that means moveing a larger hose.
other than the blockages 2 pumps in series really moves the pc

if i were planning to pump pc again i'd have a irrigation gate in the
bottom of the mixer and dump over a 1' screen into a pump sump. and
slip form it.
just where i've been
chris ;o)




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Saturday, August 30, 2008

[papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

"GRINGO" <rabbit_usa2001@...> wrote:
Has anyone poured or pumped wall forms with papercrete ?

I don't think the formula is that critical but here are the problems i
encountered. i pumped to form 4 inches of pc inside an existing
concret block building.
1- the paper crete shrinks like crazy vertically. so a 8 foot form has
no advantage over slip forming.

2- If there is conduit on the walls or fastened to the form the
shrinking pc hangs up on it and leaves a gap under the obstruction.

3- if the block wall wasn't drilled and bolted to the forms the weight
of the pc bulged the block wall. so the forms for an 8 foot wall need
to be just a strong and ridged as if you where going to pour concrete.

4- i used a 2" trash pump and when it failed i had no back up. because
of the roof on the existing structure i could not even bucket it. but
who is going to bucket 600 gals of pc? the biggest source of pump
problems was blockage from trash in the used paper. sample credit
cards from junk mail bottle caps, plastic binding straps from who
knows where ect.
a larger pump maybe would work but that means moveing a larger hose.
other than the blockages 2 pumps in series really moves the pc

if i were planning to pump pc again i'd have a irrigation gate in the
bottom of the mixer and dump over a 1' screen into a pump sump. and
slip form it.
just where i've been
chris ;o)


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Friday, August 29, 2008

Re: [papercreters] Paper strip versus Paper pulp

Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com> wrote:

>One thing you can do to make PC much stronger is to compress it.

I'm curious about this. Once you compress it, does it spring back, or can you compress it one time shortly after pouring and have the PC stay compressed?

If so, will compressing it squeeze enough water out of the mix to allow you to move a block right away? That would allow you to use something similar to a Cinva Ram to squeeze it down.

Greg

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Thursday, August 28, 2008

[papercreters] Anyone know about Econovate?

Hi,

Does anyone know more about Econovate than the website tells?

http://www.econovate.com/

Econovate Ltd began in August 2006 focusing in this niche by developing
a new walling system. Currently we are at the research and development
stage of this new product.

We are aiming to be manufacturing this new material by 2009.

Econovate does community training through the social company *Papercrete
Initiative Project C.I.C.* PIP is a company to deliver awareness on this
material and its use for other product.

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Re: [papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

Not much. Meaning I don't think about it much, not that I don't like it. I have not used lime very often, but the few times I did, the papercrete was smooth and creamy.

Several list members swear by it and would be a better source of information about lime.

Spaceman

GRINGO wrote:

Spaceman ,What do you think about the use of "S" lime ?    
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[papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

Spaceman ,What do you think about the use of "S" lime ?


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Re: [papercreters] possible add- nylon fibers Bill Birdsall

Bill Birdsall has a site at
http://www.angelfire.com/in2/manythings/TEXT/NYLON-CEMENT.htm
with text but no pictures. If the yahooligans managed to break that link, try
http://tinyurl.com/6k96kh

Spaceman

Charmaine Taylor wrote:

Here is   Bill Birdsall INFO -- he talks about the mountains of plastic fishing twine that is usable, so yes if it can be chopped to 1-3" in why not?  http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/How_to_make_nylon-cement_shells  AKK-- his site below  is NO longer up!!  I have the 13 page- 1.4MB file in PDF I can send to anyone who requests it directly-- and below is a post he made in o4 on the ferrocement.net site--  From: "Bill Birdsall" <billbirdsall@hotmail.com>  Date:2002-04-09   I would like to share my experience with a new material combination I have been working with for many years.  Nylon-cement is a combination of recycled nylon fishnet and cement.  It has lots of good uses, such as making 1/4 inch thick cement floors, lining carved earth shapes such as outdoor furniture, and above-ground structures.  Visit my web pages for more details.   BOTH DON'T EXIST > Photos are at:  http://communities.msn.com/BillBirdsall An essay on nylon-cement and the projects I have done with it are at:  www.angelfire.com/in2/manythings/page5.html  The nylon fishnet can stretch, so it doesn't prevent cement cracking, but it does hold pieces together if they do crack, preserving function.  It doesn't rust, like iron, which is an advantage.   About the only thing that hurts nylon is ultraviolet light, and the cement protects it from sunlight, so it should be a material combination with pretty good longevity.  My house, which is dome-like, was built over a steel rod structure, like ferro-cement, but all of the carved-earth work, including a tunnel, uses no iron.   There are above-ground techniques, such as stretching the fishnet like a tent and then plastering it, that also use no iron.    Iron rods rusting have caused me some problems already in the house.  The old rod manufacturing technique was to let the red-hot rods cool slowly in the air, which let carbon fibers form in the rods, and allowed oxygen to enter the rod and rust it faster.  Water-cooled rods have fewer carbon fibers in them, and are more rust resistant.   None of the supply stores here in Puerto Rico seem to be conscious of that.  I hope the industry has shifted over to water-cooled rods now.  Not to do so would be a disservice to all builders.  I also use silicone rubber to make architectural models.  It is great for making irregular shapes representing ferro-cement, or nylon-cement structures.  I will write up something on those model making techniques soon.     --  Bill  ++++++++++++ SO it has been done and may add interconnecting tensile strength.. If I had access I would use it, as I use sawdust and it is tiny-- and having nylon fivers to add wouls help. I did buy a sack of a Japanese fiber- super strength Kuraray inc.  they are online qand their PVA FIBERS ARE DESIGNED SPECIFIC FOR CEMENT USE.  THEY WERE SHOWN AT THE ITSA  ( thin shell assoc.) conference, IN OREGON 3 YEARS AGO..  A 40 PD BAG LASTS FOREVER, AND THE TINY FINE FIBERS  DO THEIR JOB.  opps capps!!  see the site on cement reinforcement  http://www.kuraray-am.com/pvaf/index.php    
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Re: [papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

I don't think the interwall columns would be necessary, depending on your wall thickness of course. Maybe not a bond beam but definitely something with tensile strength tying the walls together. The amount of outward force will be determined by the way your make your vault. Have you considered flying buttresses?

Spaceman

GRINGO wrote:

Spaceman I agree with your less labor approach. I have an older model mayco grout pump that I am planning to use to place the papercrete.Until your post I had planned on using this mix: 60 pounds paper 1/2 bag of type "S" slaked lime 1 bag portland apx. 120-140 gallons of water no sand 30-45 day fully cure time then water proof  I have worked with the bond beam and inter wall columns(common practice here ).I believe that a barrel vault with a 10%-15%rise will have more down force/weight than outward force so I was concerned with compression of the poured wall,but by using a concrete bond/tie beam and interwall coloums the papercrete is only used as a wall filler with little or no strenth required.    I was looking for possible using only papercrete poured walls with a tie/bond beam but with no inter wall coloums.   ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com  Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:01 AM      
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Re: [papercreters] Paper strip versus Paper pulp

One thing you can do to make PC much stronger is to compress it. Take a handfull of pc and make a ball. take another handful and press all the water out of it then let them dry. Chingles difference!

chiong_guo <chiong_guo@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

I am new to this but prior to discovering this group I had tried with
sawdust + portland cement. I had also tried chalk + cement glue. The
result had always been disappointing as the brick or slab (1/2 ") is
often crumply. It breaks easily. One reason i think is because cement
doesn't adhere to wood...but paper is made from wood.

Is there something that I could add to make the brick stronger ?

If fiber in the paper is what gave papercrete its strength then won't
using paper strips instead of pulp makes it stronger ? Could we soak
paper strips in a watery slurry of portland cement for perhaps 1/2 an
hour and then overlaying the strips on a wire-mesh made of metal or
other fabric ? Could doing the same with old cloths - preferably
cotton - provide good result ?

Thanks for any experiences or information shared.


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[papercreters] possible add- nylon fibers Bill Birdsall

Here is Bill Birdsall INFO -- he talks about the mountains of
plastic fishing twine that is usable, so yes if it can be chopped to
1-3" in why not?

http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/How_to_make_nylon-cement_shells

AKK-- his site below is NO longer up!! I have the 13 page- 1.4MB
file in PDF I can send to anyone who requests it directly-- and below
is a post he made in o4 on the ferrocement.net site--

From: "Bill Birdsall" <billbirdsall@hotmail.com> Date:2002-04-09

I would like to share my experience with a new material combination I
have been working with for many years. Nylon-cement is a combination
of recycled nylon fishnet and cement. It has lots of good uses, such
as making 1/4 inch thick cement floors, lining carved earth shapes
such as outdoor furniture, and above-ground structures.

Visit my web pages for more details. BOTH DON'T EXIST >
Photos are at: http://communities.msn.com/BillBirdsall
An essay on nylon-cement and the projects I have done with it are at:
www.angelfire.com/in2/manythings/page5.html

The nylon fishnet can stretch, so it doesn't prevent cement cracking,
but it does hold pieces together if they do crack, preserving
function. It doesn't rust, like iron, which is an advantage. About
the only thing that hurts nylon is ultraviolet light, and the cement
protects it from sunlight, so it should be a material combination with
pretty good longevity.

My house, which is dome-like, was built over a steel rod structure,
like ferro-cement, but all of the carved-earth work, including a
tunnel, uses no iron. There are above-ground techniques, such as
stretching the fishnet like a tent and then plastering it, that also
use no iron.

Iron rods rusting have caused me some problems already in the house.
The old rod manufacturing technique was to let the red-hot rods cool
slowly in the air, which let carbon fibers form in the rods, and
allowed oxygen to enter the rod and rust it faster. Water-cooled rods
have fewer carbon fibers in them, and are more rust resistant. None
of the supply stores here in Puerto Rico seem to be conscious of that.
I hope the industry has shifted over to water-cooled rods now. Not
to do so would be a disservice to all builders.

I also use silicone rubber to make architectural models. It is great
for making irregular shapes representing ferro-cement, or nylon-cement
structures. I will write up something on those model making
techniques soon. -- Bill

++++++++++++
SO it has been done and may add interconnecting tensile strength.. If
I had access I would use it, as I use sawdust and it is tiny-- and
having nylon fivers to add wouls help. I did buy a sack of a Japanese
fiber- super strength Kuraray inc. they are online qand their PVA
FIBERS ARE DESIGNED SPECIFIC FOR CEMENT USE.

THEY WERE SHOWN AT THE ITSA ( thin shell assoc.) conference, IN
OREGON 3 YEARS AGO..

A 40 PD BAG LASTS FOREVER, AND THE TINY FINE FIBERS DO THEIR JOB.

opps capps!! see the site on cement reinforcement

http://www.kuraray-am.com/pvaf/index.php

--
Ms. Charmaine Taylor/ Taylor Publishing
707 -441-1632
www.dirtcheapbuilder.com www. papercrete.com
PO Box 375, Cutten CA 95534

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[papercreters] Re: Nano Paper

Interesting article.

I don't see nanopaper being very practical for papercrete. You
typically need large volumes of cheap (hopefully free) paper to build a
structure with. I don't see that happening any time soon with any
exotic or specialty paper.

That doesn't me we cannot learn from the experiments others are doing
related to paper though. Some of the techniques and ingredients others
use might be helpful when working with papercrete.


--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh" <janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting development. Does anyone else know anything about
nanopaper??
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080609090706.htm
>
> Janosh
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date:
8/26/2008
> 7:29 AM
>

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RE: [papercreters] Possible add to PC

Poly fibers make reasonable reinforcement in cement though not as good as steel or some of the expensive synthetics like Spectra or Kevlar.  Glass fibers are mostly for crack control.  Nylon is too stretchy as reinforcement, but Poly is better.  Graphite is to brittle.  PVA fibers are good.

These have been tested in mortar.  Papercrete may be different.  My gut says go for it.

Janosh

 


From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pat B Parham
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 4:13 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Possible add to PC

 

Working on pipeline, I have piles of junk Poly rope, I was wondering has anyone tried adding short poly fibers to PC. I know that fiberglass strands are sometimes added to concrete mixes when high strength is required. I was thinking of 1" long pieces and about 1/2 lb to tow mixer batch. I was thinking of using this mix in the roof. I know this will take away fire proofing but I was looking to add strenght. Any thoughts would be read over and over.Thanks.

 

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[papercreters] Re: Possible add to PC

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Pat B Parham
<texasweldinginspector@...> wrote:
I have piles of junk Poly rope, I was wondering has anyone tried
adding short poly fibers to PC.

This is also my Q.

I have to feed my horse with hay bales tied w/orange (plastic?)
twine..I can't really burn it and I'm not trying to roll-up a worlds
record ball.
I thought about chopping it up as a ferro-cement/adobe/??? binder.

Any thoughts on this...?

I know hundreds of farms,in this area,who have 30+ years of this stuff
in 5 ton piles littering the countryside.The stuff won't even try to
decompose!!!


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Wednesday, August 27, 2008

[papercreters] Possible add to PC

Working on pipeline, I have piles of junk Poly rope, I was wondering has anyone tried adding short poly fibers to PC. I know that fiberglass strands are sometimes added to concrete mixes when high strength is required. I was thinking of 1" long pieces and about 1/2 lb to tow mixer batch. I was thinking of using this mix in the roof. I know this will take away fire proofing but I was looking to add strenght. Any thoughts would be read over and over.Thanks.

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[papercreters] Re: PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

Spaceman I agree with your less labor approach. I have an older model
mayco grout pump that I am planning to use to place the
papercrete.Until your post I had planned on using this mix:
60 pounds paper
1/2 bag of type "S" slaked lime
1 bag portland
apx. 120-140 gallons of water
no sand
30-45 day fully cure time then water proof
I have worked with the bond beam and inter wall columns(common
practice here ).I believe that a barrel vault with a 10%-15%rise will
have more down force/weight than outward force so I was concerned with
compression of the poured wall,but by using a concrete bond/tie beam and
interwall coloums the papercrete is only used as a wall filler with
little or no strenth required.
I was looking for possible using only papercrete poured walls with a
tie/bond beam but with no inter wall coloums.


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Re: [papercreters] Paper strip versus Paper pulp

IMO the greatest strength is achieved with the finest pulp. There has been discussion of this on the list recently, with Curtis opining that coarse chunks of paper in the mix add tensile strength, and Slurry Guy opining the opposite. Curtis has undoubtedly mixed more pc than SG has. Based on my experience with mixing a little pc, I believe that the finer pulp yields a denser and stronger final product. AFAIK no one has actually done scientific testing to determine which is really stronger, and to what degree.

Paper strips dipped in watery portland cement is where I started back in 1976. Papier Maché with  portland cement instead of gypsum plaster. I soon found that blending the paper strips gave me a consistency similar to potter's clay, easy to work with and with good final strength.

Someone recently posted a link to their website describing a method of dipping burlap into portland cement and hanging it on a metal framework. Hemp would probably be stronger than cotton. It works, but is not papercrete. It would make a nice outer shell without any of the benefit of insulation which papercrete gives you.

Spaceman

http://starship-enterprises.net/papercrete/

chiong_guo wrote:

I am new to this but prior to discovering this group I had tried with sawdust + portland cement. I had also tried chalk + cement glue. The result had always been disappointing as the brick or slab (1/2 ") is often crumply. It breaks easily. One reason i think is because cement doesn't adhere to wood...but paper is made from wood.    Is there something that I could add to make the brick stronger ?    If fiber in the paper is what gave papercrete its strength then won't using paper strips instead of pulp makes it stronger ?  Could we soak paper strips in a watery slurry of portland cement for perhaps 1/2 an hour and then overlaying the strips on a wire-mesh made of metal or other fabric ?  Could doing the same with old cloths - preferably cotton - provide good result ?       Thanks for any experiences or information shared.      ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com  Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM      
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Re: [papercreters] PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE and opinions on wall-building methods.

IMNSHO the ideal is to mix right next to the final resting place of the pc and dump/drain the pc in to your form. PC is heavy when wet and requires a lot of work to move around, whether manually or with a pump/auger system. My current scheme is to use my spray washer in a 55 gallon drum that will be put on a stand right next to the work area so that after mixing I can just open a gate valve or elephant trunk (inner tube) and let the pc gravity feed into the form. The only lifting involved will be paper, portland cement, and other additives into the barrel.

Blocks require too much handling for my tastes. First you have to put the pc into the molds, then later remove the molds. Then you have to turn the blocks periodically while they dry. Next you should stack them at a convenient location. Eventually you move them to the construction area where you re stack them. Then you finally get to mortar them into place. At that point you are applying wet mortar onto dry blocks, which is not ideal for the best bonding.

Also, a slip formed wall will have fewer seams so should be stronger than small blocks. I typically have 4'x4' areas without seams. This is stronger than a 4'x4' area with seams every few inches.

Spaceman

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:

Good question. I hope someone has an answer for you as I would like to know more about poured papercrete as well. I also am looking for opinions/viewpoints/etc. as to what is the fastest and most efficient way to make a papercrete wall - blocks or poured in place (I have about half the number of blocks needed.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l-williams.com.

There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world; and that is an idea whose time has come.                 Victor Hugo 1802-1885
   
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Re: [papercreters] PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE



GRINGO wrote:

Hello all I have read in depth the post her but I still have questions. Has anyone poured or pumped wall forms with papercrete ?If so what recipe was used ?   
60# dry paper, 5# borax, 30# portland cement, 125 gallons water.
  Will a 12" pumped papercrete wall support the weight of a barrel vault roof system poured of light weight concrete ?   
With the right recipe and a bond beam, yes. The compression strength of papercrete is similar to adobe, with the right mix. Remember that the barrel vault will be thrusting out, so compression strength isn't the problem.

Spaceman
     
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RE: [papercreters] PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE and opinions on wall-building methods.

Good question. I hope someone has an answer for you as I would like to know more about poured papercrete as well. I also am looking for opinions/viewpoints/etc. as to what is the fastest and most efficient way to make a papercrete wall - blocks or poured in place (I have about half the number of blocks needed.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l-williams.com.

There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world; and that is an idea whose time has come.                 Victor Hugo 1802-1885


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: rabbit_usa2001@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:49:37 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

Hello all I have read in depth the post her but I still have
questions. Has anyone poured or pumped wall forms with papercrete ?If
so what recipe was used ?
Will a 12" pumped papercrete wall support the weight of a barrel
vault roof system poured of light weight concrete ?




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RE: [papercreters] Vince's 55 gallon drum electric mixer

Nice pics Vince. Do you have any more of the motor set up? And drive belts?

 

Nick

 


From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Pawlowski
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:09 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Vince's 55 gallon drum electric mixer

 

Dear papercrete friends and patient advisors:

I just posted some pictures on the papercreter's yahoogroup site of my
new 55 gallon drum based papercrete mixer powered by a 2 horsepower
electric motor. The mixer and I were recently the object of a local
green newsmagazine article (not online, unfortunately).
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/browse/6495

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[papercreters] Paper strip versus Paper pulp

I am new to this but prior to discovering this group I had tried with
sawdust + portland cement. I had also tried chalk + cement glue. The
result had always been disappointing as the brick or slab (1/2 ") is
often crumply. It breaks easily. One reason i think is because cement
doesn't adhere to wood...but paper is made from wood.

Is there something that I could add to make the brick stronger ?

If fiber in the paper is what gave papercrete its strength then won't
using paper strips instead of pulp makes it stronger ? Could we soak
paper strips in a watery slurry of portland cement for perhaps 1/2 an
hour and then overlaying the strips on a wire-mesh made of metal or
other fabric ? Could doing the same with old cloths - preferably
cotton - provide good result ?

Thanks for any experiences or information shared.


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[papercreters] PUMPED WALL FORM RECIPE

Hello all I have read in depth the post her but I still have
questions. Has anyone poured or pumped wall forms with papercrete ?If
so what recipe was used ?
Will a 12" pumped papercrete wall support the weight of a barrel
vault roof system poured of light weight concrete ?


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RE: [papercreters] Vince's 55 gallon drum electric mixer

How long does it take to mix 20 lbs of Paper, and what volume of block do you wind up with?

Janosh

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Tuesday, August 26, 2008

[papercreters] Vince's 55 gallon drum electric mixer

Dear papercrete friends and patient advisors:

I just posted some pictures on the papercreter's yahoogroup site of my
new 55 gallon drum based papercrete mixer powered by a 2 horsepower
electric motor. The mixer and I were recently the object of a local
green newsmagazine article (not online, unfortunately).
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/browse/6495

The mixer is capable of shredding heavy duty cardboard up to 4 layers,
at least. I have stuffed in boxes that are as big as I can fit with no
trouble. It takes whole phone books, but only one at a time. It mixes
any junk paper, including packing tape and windowed envelopes. It will
not shred Tyvek DVD envelopes.

When I first started, I used the blades that were on the plaster mixer
that forms the skeleton of the mixer. The plaster mixer was designed to
be bolted onto the top of a 55 gallon drum. The blades were two twisted
6" bars welded to the end of the shaft in an x pattern. That simple
blade design overloaded the circuit breaker and finally the motor
overheat protector many times before I cut them off. This makes it
clear to me that straight blades are terribly inefficient, which
explains tow mixer are driven by 100+ horsepower trucks. As an aside,
my next mixer will be based on a 5 foot diameter stock tank with self
cleaning blade design.

Much of my design work has been on self-cleaning blades. There are two
pictures of the current blades, with two, three and four tips. The
blades are cut from cheap steel circular saw blades. More expensive
ones are hardened and will not allow the tips to bend enough to create a
good vortex without snapping. It doesn't really seem to matter how many
tips there are, as long as they spiral backwards enough.

I recently mixed an old hardbound textbook, the binding strings got
wrapped around the shaft, causing the only overload I have had with the
three blade design. The blade designs are adapted from Eric Patterson's
self-cleaning blade design described in Gordon Solberg's Building with
Papercrete and Paper Adobe book.

The mixer blades are a vast improvement over the original 6" straight
cross blade originally on the plaster mixer shaft. I replaced it with a
self cleaning blade designed after a food processor blade. Later, I
added more blades with a lower angle to decrease mixing time and even
the vortex. They also allow me to make a very thick mix that settles
less when poured. I typically mix 20 pounds of paper, then add up to 5
pounds more until the pulp is thick enough to form a heavy ball in my hand.

The blades are only bent less than 1/4 inch at the ends, I have found
that anymore produces more vortex motion than shredding. With too much
vortex, pieces tend to circle up and down for too long without shredding
much wasting power. Too little and the vortex disappears when the paper
turns totally to pulp resulting in insufficient mixing of the Portland
cement.

I've been improving the design and making blocks for about 30-40 loads.
The design has been stable for about the past eight loads. The next
change I anticipate are adding a spiral folding bar. I now use a 2x3
stick attached to the inside of the barrel to fold in the vortex, it
catches too many small pieces of paper.

The mixer shaft and mount came from the plaster mixer ($35) which I
found at a local used tool shop where I also bought the 2 HP 110/220 V
motor ($80). The belt, pulley and metal shield around the motor came
from an old laboratory shaker/bath that I got from a university surplus
property auction for $5 - just the bearings are worth more than that!

Most of the rest of the parts came from a local used lumber/construction
materials company. I have two sets of forms, one 8 foot long, built
from 2x4's (pictured), the other from 6 foot long 2x6's (pix coming).
The first form has an expanded metal grate ($8) for a drainage base, the
second uses a sheet of steel with 1/16" holes punched in it ($27). It
is a standard part that I have seen somewhere before.

The new second form has two levels. The inside dividers are 1x6's
ripped down to 4 1/2". That allows me to overfill the whole form, then
trowel off the excess on top of the dividers. My blocks are coming out
really square and neat! More pictures then they dry.

The wooden parts for the platform and forms are scrounged from the
neighborhood for nada ($15 for deck screws).

The platform design includes a water recycling system that is still
going together. More on that later. At the moment, it recycles about
15 gallons of water from a 45 gallon load. I found a used submersible
pump for $20 that will pump the drainage water back into the next
batch. It has been very handy to pump harvested rainwater into the barrel.

Now that I have a reliable mixer that my wife, Terry, can operate, I can
get back to my other responsibilities!

Any questions?

Thanks,

Vince

P.S. more pictures to come...

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[papercreters] Re: Human Powered Mike McCain Tow Mixer

Hi,

You might think its funny, but my 55 gallon drum mixer works with a 2
horsepower motor. We have the El Tour de Tucson coming up, a major
bicycle race.

This has me thinking... hmm... if a relatively fit human can generate
around 1/4 horsepower, then all I need to do is tie a small tow mixer
(geared right) to a team of eight bicyclists, get a whip, yell "mush"
and we should be well on our way toward human powered mixers.

I'll get right to work on this...

Thanks,

Vince


> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Charmaine Taylor"
<dirtcheapbuilderbooks@> wrote:
> >
> > hahah some silly person came up with a bike powered mixer 9
> > years ago.


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Re: [papercreters] Papercrete bumper insert

Well there's something in our water here and if Vince is going to fess up I guess I will too. The combo van/truck/lift/winch bench seat and the inserts of the backs of the front seats in Kens stuff in the photo section are pc. I do hope I never get in a wreck but it's on the ranch for the most part. Heyyyy I ran out of ploy foam so sue me oh wait a second I got a Sue already. Anyway I got the idea from Miss Taylor from some of the free stuff she sends when you order from her. It was a garden bench I just sort of ran with it.
Ken

--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Chita Jing <cargovanfan@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Chita Jing <cargovanfan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete bumper insert
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 12:10 PM


   Oh, HELL YES! *LOL*

    Luv this. You GO, Vince --



On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Vincent Pawlowski <pawlowski@ultrasw.com> wrote:
Hi,

I just sent my son off to college with a bumper repair made from papercrete.  Anyone want to try a 5 mph test?

It was really easy and much cheaper than a new styrofoam insert.  I just slipped a piece of an old plastic political sign betwen the radiator and bumper, at the back of the black actual bumper behind the bumper cover and poured.  I compressed the mix a bit a couple times as it dried in order to get a snug fit. 

The picture is in the photos section in an album entitled "VinceCrete"

Now that I have a working mixer and a rainy day, expect more pictures soon.

Vince



Re: [papercreters] Nano Paper

It looks great, you might want the fiber not the paper.
These papers tend to be hard to shred
--
Build Smarter....EPS Structural Air
http://styrohomenews.blogspot.com
http://ergodesk.blogspot.com
 
 

 
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Janoahsh <janoahsh@alaska.net> wrote:
Interesting development.  Does anyone else know anything about nanopaper??

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080609090706.htm

Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008
7:29 AM


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[papercreters] Nano Paper

Interesting development. Does anyone else know anything about nanopaper??

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080609090706.htm

Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008
7:29 AM


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