I have tried adding the cement at different times during the mixing process. At first I added it to the water as I was filling the tank. I think this worked very well to completely dissolve the cement. At that time I was using newspapers exclusively so it didn't take much time for the paper to mulch up and mix with the cement. After the tank developed mega leaks I waited until after the paper was totally mulched before adding the cement. It seemed to me that the cement must have been leaking out of the tank and I didn't want to waste any.
The mulched paper seals the leaks so now I mulch that paper before adding the cement.
Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 21:40:30 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete mix design
Joy I will have to differ with you on the run off. After I have poured
my PC and it does not make any difference what formula I am using, "
i.e. clay, sand additions of just paper and cement." The run off is
always the same, just clear or almost clear water. I have never seen
cement or clay colored water leave my PC. It always amazes me that it
does that. I have worked with concrete for many years if if you get too
much water in the mix the run off is is cement colored, but not with PC,
and I always start with soaked wet paper pulp then add the cement and
mix well and then if I want any other additives I add them last.
BOB
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Joy Pickens <lilyklink@...> wrote:
>
> Great wrap up Judith, and Johan, thanks for the tech details. On the
chance of
> being redundant, I will back what Johan says, try to use the least
amount of
> water you can and not have to drain any away, at least after the
cement has been
> added, cuz everything that drains off after the cement has been added
is the
> strength of your finished product being compromised and running off as
waste, I
> mean anyone can see that the runnoff is NOT pure water.
>
> Joy in OK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: JUDITH WILLIAMS williams_judith@...
> To: papercreters papercreters papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 9:25:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete mix design
>
> Â
> I appreciate this reasonable and clear explanation of the use of
cement in
> papercrete. I have to admit I haven't carefully read the technical
things that
> have appeared here. My eyes tend to glaze over at such things,
although I admit
> the information may be interesting (?). Anyway, I look at mixing
papercrete
> like making bread. If you have the basic things that make it what it
is then you
> can add and experiment all you want. Maybe it was here that you saw
cellulose
> insulation added to the mixer. It was quick and easy but would get
expensive if
> used all the time.
>
>
> At the risk of being redundant I must repeat - the beauty of
papercrete is it's
> elemental simplicity and inexpensiveness. For an $11 investment for a
bag of
> cement I can have a good portion of a wall. If I can't get cement or
can't
> afford it I can use clay soil. If can't get newspapers I can use
cardboard or
> junk mail from the post office.
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at
http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: Spaceman@...
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:40:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete mix design
>
> Â
> That was a nice question when it was asked (and answered) four years
ago. There
> are many papercrete mixes depending on how the papercrete is to be
used, and the
> preferences of the person mixing. Many recipes are in the archives and
the files
> section. Folks have experimented with lime and with fly ash (slag)
with
> seemingly good results but afaik no testing has been done to determine
what
> effect, if any, these have on the final papercrete strength and
durability.
>
> Periodically we seem to get concrete folks on here who proceed to tell
us how we
> are doing it all wrong and you can't mix concrete like we do. Well,
the thing is
> that papercrete is NOT concrete and they are not very similar.
Papercrete often
> is used in a liquid state, thin enough to pump, and has no slump at
all. With
> concrete the amount of water is absolutely critical to the final
strength of the
> concrete. That does not apply to papercrete.
>
>
> Most often it is the mixer that is pulping the paper in a water bath.
You have
> to use enough water to mix, and then the bulk of the water is drained
off. The
> mixing methods used for concrete do not apply here. I have only seen
expensive
> cellulose insulation (dry fiber) used for papercrete once, and it was
simply
> dumped into the mixer along with water, cement, pumice, etc., and all
were mixed
> together. Normally this wet mix is put into forms or molds where the
extra water
> rapidly drains away, leaving a soft material that will finally develop
some
> firmness after a few minutes of draining. Molds can often be removed
within a
> few minutes of filling. Depending on the thickness, the mix, the
temperature,
> the wind, this material may take days or weeks to dry out and become
hard.
>
> A few weeks ago I looked at trying some cellulose insulation in a
concrete mixer
> but backed off when I realized the final product would cost more than
$10 a
> cubic foot. Not to mention that buying a product like that would
negate the
> green/recycling aspect of using paper destined for the landfill. If
there were a
> cheap source of pulverized paper then it would be possible to mix with
less
> water, but exact ratios could be thrown off by humidity since paper
absorbs
> moisture well. There might be a wide range of water content that would
be
> mixable since the fibers are absorbent. I think papercrete mixes are
like
> cooking - recipes are a starting guide but need to be adjusted for
real
> conditions.
>
>
>
> spaceman
>
> All opinions expressed or implied
> are subject to change without notice
> upon receipt of new information.
>
> http://Starship-Enterprises.Net blog at
> http://Starship-Enterprises.Net/wordpress/
> On 6/3/2011 5:59 AM, Johan wrote:
> Hi everybody, nice question folks. A good method in concrete
mixing to obtain
> consistency is the slump test whereby a prismatic shape tin container
without a
> bottom is filled with the concrete/pc mix. The tin is then
removed upwards and
> the height of the material that it has slumped to is measured.Â
This is then
> recorded and compared to the height of the tin as a percentage
including the
> details of this particular mix i.e. cement type and brand and possible
batch #
> in one column with amount used by volume or weight. The next
column contains
> type of sand/paper used and preferably weighed dry. Record the
amount of water
> used because too much water weakens the strength of the concrete/pc.
 I have the
> details somewhere and will post it as soon as I have found it, but the
point is
> that even if there is no current standards for pc you can record your
own slump
> heights results for own use. The point of the exercise is to
obtain consistency
> and being able to record your experiments with various mixes for
different
> applications.
> >Just another point of interest is that the addition of slaked lime
(not
> >agricultural lime) will give the mix a nice buttery working
consistency and it
> >will strengthen the material more over a longer period after the
cement has
> >reached it full strength.Â
> >
> >Slag cement also increases strength after Portland cement has stopped
but for
> >all these additives you must remember it does not reach its maximum
strength as
> >fast as when you did not use it. Â It needs time as in years to
develop full
> >strength.
> >When concrete is mixed in a drum mixer, the stone is added first,
then follows
> >some of the measured amount of water just to coat the stone followed
by the
> >cement and then only the sand and final water left over. I would
assume that
> >the dry paper is shredded first followed by some water, then the
cement followed
> >by final water allocated for the mix. Please inform me if it is
different.Â
> >Finally I apologies for any incorrect English since it is not my home
language.
> >Regards
> >Johan Van Tonder
> >Â
> >
> >Â
> >
> >
>
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