Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Re: [papercreters] Re: shop press



Thanks and good luck.

Calle


From: Ron Richter <ronerichter@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: shop press

 

Calle,
I haven't made anything for habitation yet only an 8' X 16' shed for a three wheeler. So I don't really want to share (well I will share but don't use it).  I use 30 lbs of paper and 30 lbs of cement.  That way I get 3 - 160 gallon batches from a bag of cement.  I used to add sand, but found no difference between that and sand-less batches.  Could be I never added enough, but I was putting in the same weight of sand as paper so 30 lbs. 
I am stuck working in Alaska right now, but we are on the verge of doing a comprehensive testing program.  The students needed a science fair project and so I bought an industrial blender and got some cement and we are going to see if the compaction of papercrete affects the R value.  I have 3 thermocouples I will install in the sample (which I am going to make 1" thick) and time the rate of travel from one side of the sample to the other.  Also there should be enough sample to do some rudimentary compression and tension testing.  So the variables will be volume of cement first (we will run a whole battery with various volume of cement changes) then start all over with different pressing pressures.  This may take awhile.  But it will energize me to know more about something that I enjoy playing with.

Talk to Spaceman about the chicken wire idea.  I think he does something like that when he builds the panels for his geodesic domes.  Or if he doesn't, he probably did and has some info on it.

Mikey Sklar also has put chicken wire or wire of some sort on at least a fencing project if not a structure, and he does a lot of spraying with a Tirolessa type sprayer


Cheers
Ron



From: "valledecalle@yahoo.com" <valledecalle@yahoo.com>

 

What is your formula? I keep thinking that block is so labor intensive,

Is your method what they call "slip walls"?

I even thought of making a wall form with a layer of chicken wire in the middle of the PC , let it dry and put it between studs. Then top it with sprayed PC.

Calle


From: "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@ sbcglobal. net>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:18:24 -0000
To: <papercreters@ yahoogroups. com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: shop press

 

Very Well Written Ron.....You write like a Teacher! ;-)

I have not tried it yet but, I believe if a person is going to build a large enough structure, he could start on one side and pour all the first course completely around the house, and by the time he gets back to the starting point the mix will be set enough to pour the next course, and if you are fast enough or the building isn't really large, I believe you can pour up to 5 courses high before you need to let it rest over night. I'm sure that if you let it rest overnight using my mixture it will be quite hard the next morning and the pouring can start again for another 5 courses. At that rate you could be 8' high in three or four days. Sure beats waiting days on end for blocks to dry enough to lay!

BTB


--- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, Ron Richter <ronerichter@ ...> wrote:

 Hi Alexis,
This is a developing question. If you need 4000 bricks to make a structure are you prepared to 1. 1. Make them

2. Have acres to let them dry (weeks in Montana a week in Arizona/New Mexico)

3. Keep them ready (dry) for use

4. Have a way to keep them rain free till use?

As Clair mentioned this is labor intensive. Pour the brick in the mold, wait an hour, pull the mold off, wait a day, turn the bricks, wait a couple of days, turn the bricks again, when dry enough stack the bricks somewhere out of the weather. Some in the arid regions of the US don't have to worry about the weather, but in Montana (Big Sky Country) you do. I tried to get 3 or 4 batches of bricks dry enough to handle in the middle of a nice hot summer and it took weeks. I even built a little greenhouse out of plastic pipe and visqueen (like a quonset hut). It did get warm in there but the humidity was also high. I opened the ends to allow the humidity out and the temp went way down.

This is basically avoided in the T-Lock small form method. With the T-Lock system you need handle the slurry only once. When you make a pour an hour or so is needed for them to set (right out of the mixer no drainage needed). While that batch is setting you can make the next batch (takes me about 45 minutes (fill the mixer with water, weigh the paper, drive around and pulp it, add the cement, drive around and mix it). You can let it sit in the mixer for an hour and much of the water will come to the surface and you can skim it off with a 5 gal bucket. You may be able to get as much as 15 gallons out this way but it is not necessary. Then move the forms to a new location and pour the batch in them. I might add that you can add a batch right on top of the previous pour an hour later, but you should limit this to two levels per day. You may be able to go three rounds if your brick mold is 3" or 4" deep, but mine were 6" and I didn't feel comfortable
going more than 2 green layers a day.

You mentioned the water. The water is going to wet the previous pour and basically prep it for the next contact and better adhesion. If you are using bone dry bricks and you use a thin film of slurry for the mortar, the bottom and top brick may starve the thin film of water. Many have used this method so I won't knock it because even I started this way. I like reducing the "messing around" and the waiting for the bricks to be ready.

You also mentioned shrinkage. The bricks will shrink away from the molds no matter what you do. I had extra slurry to add to the shrinking bricks as they dried (within a half an hour much of the water will drain from the brick laying on the ground) to fill them back up to the top of the mold. More time, less uniformity etc. The bricks will dry in a trapezoidal pattern NOT square. I had trouble with this. When you put them in the wall some stick out some don't and it is a mess. Others will tell you that this is great because the finish stucco has something to stick to. Well it sure is hard to even out and make it look professional. You need to look at Bob's porch addition. It is done the way one would expect a building inspector to make his own - very well. Have a look through his pictures here: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/papercrete rs/photos/ album/1000048770 /pic/1737922790/ view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

 Cheers,
Ron



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___