Just posted a photo of the West Wall next day, we removed the forms from the East side of the West Wall, the forms are still on the West side of the West wall. We will remove them tomorrow, we are now ready to start pouring the North side of the outdoor kitchen wall. We will keep you posted, the wife could not wait to get the table and chairs out and see how it was going to work out. :-)
BTB
P.S. Love this red clay mixture!
On 5/30/2010 3:41 PM, stick0boy wrote:
You're looking at the wrong stuff if it costs $4.70/sqft. Stucco mesh only costs about 10 cents per square foot.
----expanded steel seems pretty robust(seems more structural) and costly (~4.70sq foot) for what i consider using it for solely crack prevention near the surface where as hardware cloth(~1/2 inch woven steel wire(for those who are not familiar)) is closer to .53 a sq foot and more flexible. i am not sure of the plastic variant but its is definitely more flexible.
My trash pump lifts at least 20' and will throw a stream ten feet long at that height. It's not such a great pump at 2", others do a much better job.An airform would be easier than a rotating wooden form, and spraying could cover it in short order. Someone on this list was making a sprayed pc dome on an airform, but never updated his photo album or posted results after the first bit. The album is still in the group photo section.---air form does seem great how do you spray the top of it lol. i suppose a boom lift would work but will a trash pump lift that high to supply a sprayer. i dont think one would want to try to throw that far
Based on my experience with geodesics, I don't think this would be practical. As was pointed out, the zinc used to galvanize the metal is toxic when you weld so you would need a respirator or some nice breeze. I'm not fond of standing on a ladder or scaffold wearing a helmet and welding overhead, YMMV. A safety harness would be nice. Sheet metal becomes brittle when welded so you would have to account for that with some good tacks. Just holding itself up means that the lower part of the dome is supporting the full weight of the dome. Luckily geodesics are extremely strong, depending on the connections. IMHO screws are a better solution, but please send pictures when you prove me wrong :)This would require a lot of precision to have the studs fit well enough to weld. Also studs are generally thin metal that would need MIG/TIG welding. Do you weld? Harbor Freight sells a wire welder that works fairly well and is less than $200. My large dome is screwed together, a much easier and cheaper way to go.-- isn't that the whole point of geo-domes a large dome/spere from regular/identical triangles? coping the exact same triangle a few hundred times(plus a few spares) will likely become more simple by the end of it. and yes i can weld basic stuff, but i am only talking tacking . ie put 2 speed clamps on the triangle drop a couple tacks on the bottom and the triangle next to it then move to the next one. i am under no impression that the tacks will hold much pressure but should hold it self up and the first application of sprayed on PC. afterall the triangles are only a left in place form to apply the bulk of the wall/dome to. 2-3 inches of 18-24 inches.
You're welcome.and thanks for the help =D
All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.
---ok first the silly question can i process the cement bag into the mix?
---can you reclaim/repoupose used fiberglass insulation. i know its terrible stuff but if you are saving it from being buried in a hole and not buying new insulation and encouraging it to be made. also any idea if the kraft backing will break up? since fiber glass fibers wont asorb like celuose how would it be figured in?
--- i know on my family land bamboo(not the giant bamboo thats good for flooring) grows like a weed and they have been trying to kill it for decades lol. if ran thru a chipper and dried or dried and chipped.
---aren't leaves ..ie dry fall leaves cellulose? and can be used also?
ok in the last 20 minutes thats all i can think of =)anybody have other ideas or good or bad experences with non standard add ins
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Hello everyone it's been awhile since I have posted anything but the weather is finally getting nice enough to start up again here in Indiana.
Ever since we moved here the dogs would come in from outside and lick and chew their paws. At first I thought it was something in the lawn but now that I am walking around more bare footed my feet are itching also.
I have an old concrete walk way out through the back yard that is getting very pitted almost like it's disintegrating. I have found that if I walk only on the grass I am fine but the minute I walk on the cement they begin to itch. When I hose it off it is fine but only while it is wet.
Does anyone know what is causing the itching or what is wrong with the cement?
I started yesterday putting down a top coat of papercrete to protect us from the concrete ( and of course it started raining) but it still worries me because in all my years I have never experienced this. In the 16 years of California living I have never come across this and we where bare footed all the time.
Any help would be appreciated even if it means having it ripped out.
Jeanne
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Judith, your blog is coming along nicely, good job!
I used clay in one of my first mixes and loved the way it came out but even here in the high desert with about 7% humidity it took 3 weeks to set up enough to move.
I am planning to use it for a floor though.
I am also having trouble getting paper. I had planned a big work weekend with people here to help, but we ran out of paper yesterday afternoon and calling around to the stores we found out there would be none in the dumpsters til tomorrow or Tues.
The new building is coming out great. I have posted some pics and info on my blog.
I'm almost done getting the walls up to 8 feet. After that I will finish the roof on the first small building and put the floor in.
I am not going to do any workshops for a while but welcome anyone who has a day or more to come and work with me. I could use the help and I'm sure we could all learn from each other.
Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: shadowweaver2010@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 17:15:28 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Hi all, New here, Question is there any papercreter's on the East Coast
East Coast
> > >
> > > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.
--
"If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out just right."
- Sequoyah Trueblood
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I don't know if you're averse to purchasing your supply, but here in Austin, you can purchase by the bale, anything from straight cardboard, to mixed paper, to all-office-paper. The current price here is $60/bale for mixed paper...that's for a bale that weighs approximately 1000 lb. 5x5x5ft or so in dimensions.
This is from the local "recycling" organization run by the city of Austin.
There's bound to be something similar near you.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I am also having trouble getting paper. I had planned a big work weekend with people here to help, but we ran out of paper yesterday afternoon and calling around to the stores we found out there would be none in the dumpsters til tomorrow or Tues.
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I used clay in one of my first mixes and loved the way it came out but even here in the high desert with about 7% humidity it took 3 weeks to set up enough to move.
I am planning to use it for a floor though.
I am also having trouble getting paper. I had planned a big work weekend with people here to help, but we ran out of paper yesterday afternoon and calling around to the stores we found out there would be none in the dumpsters til tomorrow or Tues.
The new building is coming out great. I have posted some pics and info on my blog.
I'm almost done getting the walls up to 8 feet. After that I will finish the roof on the first small building and put the floor in.
I am not going to do any workshops for a while but welcome anyone who has a day or more to come and work with me. I could use the help and I'm sure we could all learn from each other.
Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
This is a shot of the west wall where my outdoor kitchen will set when completed, This shot shows I only like one row to finish, (I just finished it before I loged on here) I changed my slip form method and it seems to have speeded things up. Instead of moving the bottom board up to the top, I just left all forms in place and added new boards for each row. The post on the right is the corner post of my patio, there is no post on the left, I let just a leg hold all the boards in place and added a scab leg along side to continue up. the ends of the form boards is capped off with another short board which is screwed to the OSB wall, and by the way I poured right up against the painted OSB board and secured the PC to the wall with modified wire hangers as wall ties. No ill effects has happened yet, looks like it is going to work fine.
BTB
I believe steel studs are coated in zinc (galvanized) and would be very toxic if the fumes were inhaled when welding them.
Dan
.
On 5/29/2010 9:52 PM, stick0boy wrote:Don't move anywhere near Juarez, the murder capital of the world. Mexico is in the midst of an internal war between the drug cartels and everybody else. I can see Mexico from where I'm sitting, but I don't go over there any more, you can be shot for just walking down the street. A couple of days ago gunmen opened fire on people buying food from a roach coach, killing several of them. Last month one of my students was off work due to a broken arm and visited a bar in Juarez. Gunmen came in and ordered everyone to hit the floor. He was slow due to the new cast on his arm, so they shot and killed him. Have you considered Belize?ok in the grand some day plan i want to move to mexico and make a huge dome PC of course. like a supported second floor sleeping area.
Haven't tried hardware cloth, but expanded metal stucco mesh works well. Getting flat material to fit on a curved surface can be a challenge, especially without generating a lot of waste. One advantage of geodesics is that there are no curved surfaces.i was thinking about a spray application over hardware cloth near the interior (and possibly exterior somehow) to prevent cracking. this brings support issues to keep it upright long enough to apply PC ... any ideas will be appreciated. i was thinking a actual half round dome i can pivot a form of wood metal or fiberglass set off from the centerpoint with a triangular frame.
An airform would be easier than a rotating wooden form, and spraying could cover it in short order. Someone on this list was making a sprayed pc dome on an airform, but never updated his photo album or posted results after the first bit. The album is still in the group photo section.
This would require a lot of precision to have the studs fit well enough to weld. Also studs are generally thin metal that would need MIG/TIG welding. Do you weld? Harbor Freight sells a wire welder that works fairly well and is less than $200. My large dome is screwed together, a much easier and cheaper way to go.or seeing spaceman's dome i was reminded of the PC fence where 'flat' panels were capped with what appeared to be steel/aluminum framing.. i could very well make traingles of thin ~2 inch edge capped with steel studs. then to assemble by quickly tack welding on the inside of the dome where geometry would place the edges close enough to make it possible.
On my 33' dome the expansion of the metal is less than 1/4" in the circumference, within a normal range of livable temperatures. PC is compressible, so absorbs this small expansion without a problem.this brings me to the dis-simmular expantion rates of steel and PC. will this create problems?
Hot air rises so your greatest heat loss through the skin would be near the top. You need more insulation at the top than at the base.then i can fill out the structure of the dome by stapling chicken wire and placing wire condiuts and pex water lines and spraying PC and finish coats on either side. bringing the total thickness to what 18-24 at the base and thinner at the top.
Portland cement's hydration continues for a long time, but for practical purposes is pretty much done in a month. Papercrete is different from concrete, and the processes are not completely documented yet.also i am wondering what the 'open' time on papercrete is like if i was to spray 2 inches in a pass to allow the initial drainage to happen. how long will i have when the PC is set or initial drainage has occured and when the chemicial reaction has slowed or stopped. making for the maximum bond
I have slipformed and sprayed pc onto surfaces that have set for months. No problems.
Sprayed pc seems to be a bit lighter, but that's a subjective opinion. I have not measured. As far as insulation goes, there is some debate over whether compressed heavy pc has as much or more value than light pc. IIRC someone was about to do some definitive testing.i am also also wondering about any possible density difference between sprayed and block. as in strength and insulation properties
Welcome to the group. Be sure to let us know how your project(s) turn out, and send lots of pictures : )thanks for any input
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/Papercrete/Workshop/index.html
spaceman All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.
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>Don't move anywhere near Juarez, the murder capital of the world. Mexico is in the midst of an internal war between the drug cartels and everybody else. I can see Mexico from where I'm sitting, but I don't go over there any more, you can be shot for just walking down the street. A couple of days ago gunmen opened fire on people buying food from a roach coach, killing several of them. Last month one of my students was off work due to a broken arm and visited a bar in Juarez. Gunmen came in and ordered everyone to hit the floor. He was slow due to the new cast on his arm, so they shot and killed him. Have you considered Belize?
------well i definitely wouldn't be near the hot spot /us border or slums of mexico city or the corridor to central america i was thinking on the west coast of mexico. the idea is a peaceful cheaper americian dream lol. where i can raise ostrich, a few cows. plant Jatropha for bio fuel. harvest wind geothermal etc to remain seperated in a way from what seems a poor infrastructure. and i can do good works from rescue to obvious introducing/or producing PC for people that are poorer.
>Haven't tried hardware cloth, but expanded metal stucco mesh works well. Getting flat material to fit on a curved surface can be a challenge, especially without generating a lot of waste. One advantage of geodesics is that there are no curved surfaces.
----expanded steel seems pretty robust(seems more structural) and costly (~4.70sq foot) for what i consider using it for solely crack prevention near the surface where as hardware cloth(~1/2 inch woven steel wire(for those who are not familiar)) is closer to .53 a sq foot and more flexible. i am not sure of the plastic variant but its is definitely more flexible.
>An airform would be easier than a rotating wooden form, and spraying could cover it in short order. Someone on this list was making a sprayed pc dome on an airform, but never updated his photo album or posted results after the first bit. The album is still in the group photo section.
---air form does seem great how do you spray the top of it lol. i suppose a boom lift would work but will a trash pump lift that high to supply a sprayer. i dont think one would want to try to throw that far
>>This would require a lot of precision to have the studs fit well enough to weld. Also studs are generally thin metal that would need MIG/TIG welding. Do you weld? Harbor Freight sells a wire welder that works fairly well and is less than $200. My large dome is screwed together, a much easier and cheaper way to go.
-- isn't that the whole point of geo-domes a large dome/spere from regular/identical triangles? coping the exact same triangle a few hundred times(plus a few spares) will likely become more simple by the end of it. and yes i can weld basic stuff, but i am only talking tacking . ie put 2 speed clamps on the triangle drop a couple tacks on the bottom and the triangle next to it then move to the next one. i am under no impression that the tacks will hold much pressure but should hold it self up and the first application of sprayed on PC. afterall the triangles are only a left in place form to apply the bulk of the wall/dome to. 2-3 inches of 18-24 inches.
and thanks for the help =D
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To Greg and everyone, well I was able to get the next section poured as the rain subsided. I did get some pictures posted but I haven't took any of the new section. Since then I have mixed up another two hundred gallons of pulp, I know two hundred isn't much for everyone that has those big mixers but at 5 gallons at a time it took a while. I however, am in a minor delima as I need to obtain more paper to mix as I have exhausted all that I have stored up over the past year. I do have sources but it will take some time to gather them all up.
Also for those that were in Red Clay central :) I did mix up two batches of the dirt/red clay mixture I was impressed with how it reacted. It seemed to have a consistency closer to what would be seen with just a sand and portland mix. A "Mud" if you will, it held it's shape, however it has been a slow drying process with all the humidity here. It has been three days since I poured it, even though it's holding it's shape, it's still slightly soft to the touch. The pour I made a couple of weeks ago is hard and dry but you can still push on it slightly.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony" <shadowweaver2010@...> wrote:
>
>
> Greg, I think I might have some results by next Saturday. Unfortunately, I have not prepped the next area to be poured so this week will be a week of digging and setting up the forms for the wall. If things go well I should have the footers poured by Saturday with the redclay soil mix. (everyone keep your fingers crossed that the rain will only happen when I am not home...LOL) Also, soon as I can get my camera charged I am going to post pics like everyone else has about the tools they use.
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Greg House <ghunicycle@> wrote:
> >
> > Likewise. I thought WE were red clay central here in Kansas! Be interested in hearing how it works in PC. I've thought about finding ways to use this clay since I have a whole hill of it left from having a basement dug.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > >
> > >From: cloud wall <windwalkerwill@>
> > >To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > >Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 1:08:09 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Hi all, New here, Question is there any papercreter's on the East Coast
> > >
> > > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I'll be interested in how your experimenting goes since I thought we were in red clay central, here in WV. Same stone underneath, too.
> > >Clarissa
> > >
> > >
> > >--- On Tue, 5/18/10, Anthony <shadowweaver2010@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: Anthony <shadowweaver2010@ yahoo.com>
> > >>Subject: [papercreters] Re: Hi all, New here, Question is there any papercreter' s on the East Coast
> > >>To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
> > >>Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 1:38 PM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>Thank you Duknott, I appreciate the info I really didn't consider the clay aspect before and where I am is like red clay central.
> > >>>>Most of the land around here is all a red clay base before hitting the granite below.
> > >>>>We also have a vast about of silicate outcroppings that some call sand stone but its actually silicate flake stone.
> > >>>>After reading your post that got me to thinking about using some of the red clay that I have readly available.
> > >>>>Also I didn't think about this before but I wonder how the silicate stone would work in the mixes. When it breaks up it comes apart in sharp flake shards.
> > >>>>Again thank you Duknott your input was a great help and a new vector for my research.
> > >>>>--- In papercreters@ yahoogroups. com, "D" <duknott@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Down in Lower Alabama here, in the humid subtropical climate. I'm still a member of this group, but haven't worked with technically papercrete (if there is such a thing) for a good while. I pulp the paper, then mix it with a clay slurry and asphalt emulsion. The test blocks I did with the papercrete were 'one bag' and 'two bag' mixes--I filled up my stock tank mixer with magazines, newspapers, office paper and a few pizza boxes, added water, some yard dirt (mostly sand) with either one bag of cement or two. It dried very well in the summer months, for all the humidity we have. The temperature seemed to be the deciding factor that determined the rate of drying. I didn't make any in the winter; by that time, I'd figured I couldn't use the straight papercrete for what I wanted to do.
> > >>>>> The problem I had was mold. Of course, the papercrete blocks absorbed all the rain that hit them, although they did dry out between rains and held up remarkably well. I put the asphalt emulsion in with the papercrete to make it waterproof, then came upon Jack Bay's information and went with that, using the mixer to just pulp the paper and water and let it damp dry before using it in place of cellulose or hammermilled cardboard that Bays called for.
> > >>>>> I was in New Mexico a number of years ago and people out there were adding plaster to hurry the setting of their mixes. They claimed it helped, and it did appear to be setting up quicker than mine ever did, but the climate out there is so different than what we have on the Gulf Coast. (Mike McCain was building a house, and the blocks felt a lot like concrete. Another guy was making blocks with just paper, dirt and water and they were holding up great.) The people who were mixing the plaster in with their papercrete had discussed using chopped sheetrock from construction sites and demolition sites, which I thought was a good idea if they could figure out a way to seperate all the nails and wood pieces. Is the sheetrock plaster?
> > >>>>> Jack Bays added sawdust, wood chips and bits of wood to his mixes. First he soaked them in a mixture of water and asphalt emulsion. I think that the asphalt emulsion coated the wood and, that way, it didn't absorb water from the mix. I believe you could do the same with the wood in papercrete. I wonder if you could coat the glass pieces some people are working with, with the watered down asphalt? Lord knows it sticks to anything. The bad thing about coating the wood is that you have to shake it while it's drying to keep it from clumping together. Part of the beauty of papercrete, though, was the light weight. What does the glass do to that?
> > >>>>> Another thing that I found was that I needed to put sand in the mix to keep the blocks from cracking. At the time, I wanted a lighter block but mine had to have sand. I wished I'd had a cheaper source of pumice. I didn't have a place out of the sun to dry my blocks, either. When I was working with pottery, the method of drying affected the ware, and I always wondered if the blocks were allowed to dry at a controlled rate, if they would crack.
> > >>>>> All in all, I think that you could use papercrete on the eastern side of America, if you kept the blocks dry, and coated the outside with some sort of protective coat, maybe paint, but I didn't go that far. I think people have used some ingredients that worked on the mold problem, you'll have to search for that.
> > >>>>> Good Luck. Hope this helped, at least a little.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> shadowweaver2010@> wrote: I have noticed that most of the posts and such are from either the midwest or southwest. Are there any papercreters on the east coast that deal with the extended drying time and what solutions have you come up with to speed that up?
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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.
On 5/29/2010 9:52 PM, stick0boy wrote:
Don't move anywhere near Juarez, the murder capital of the world. Mexico is in the midst of an internal war between the drug cartels and everybody else. I can see Mexico from where I'm sitting, but I don't go over there any more, you can be shot for just walking down the street. A couple of days ago gunmen opened fire on people buying food from a roach coach, killing several of them. Last month one of my students was off work due to a broken arm and visited a bar in Juarez. Gunmen came in and ordered everyone to hit the floor. He was slow due to the new cast on his arm, so they shot and killed him. Have you considered Belize?ok in the grand some day plan i want to move to mexico and make a huge dome PC of course. like a supported second floor sleeping area.
Haven't tried hardware cloth, but expanded metal stucco mesh works well. Getting flat material to fit on a curved surface can be a challenge, especially without generating a lot of waste. One advantage of geodesics is that there are no curved surfaces.i was thinking about a spray application over hardware cloth near the interior (and possibly exterior somehow) to prevent cracking. this brings support issues to keep it upright long enough to apply PC ... any ideas will be appreciated. i was thinking a actual half round dome i can pivot a form of wood metal or fiberglass set off from the centerpoint with a triangular frame.
This would require a lot of precision to have the studs fit well enough to weld. Also studs are generally thin metal that would need MIG/TIG welding. Do you weld? Harbor Freight sells a wire welder that works fairly well and is less than $200. My large dome is screwed together, a much easier and cheaper way to go.or seeing spaceman's dome i was reminded of the PC fence where 'flat' panels were capped with what appeared to be steel/aluminum framing.. i could very well make traingles of thin ~2 inch edge capped with steel studs. then to assemble by quickly tack welding on the inside of the dome where geometry would place the edges close enough to make it possible.
On my 33' dome the expansion of the metal is less than 1/4" in the circumference, within a normal range of livable temperatures. PC is compressible, so absorbs this small expansion without a problem.this brings me to the dis-simmular expantion rates of steel and PC. will this create problems?
Hot air rises so your greatest heat loss through the skin would be near the top. You need more insulation at the top than at the base.then i can fill out the structure of the dome by stapling chicken wire and placing wire condiuts and pex water lines and spraying PC and finish coats on either side. bringing the total thickness to what 18-24 at the base and thinner at the top.
Portland cement's hydration continues for a long time, but for practical purposes is pretty much done in a month. Papercrete is different from concrete, and the processes are not completely documented yet.also i am wondering what the 'open' time on papercrete is like if i was to spray 2 inches in a pass to allow the initial drainage to happen. how long will i have when the PC is set or initial drainage has occured and when the chemicial reaction has slowed or stopped. making for the maximum bond
Sprayed pc seems to be a bit lighter, but that's a subjective opinion. I have not measured. As far as insulation goes, there is some debate over whether compressed heavy pc has as much or more value than light pc. IIRC someone was about to do some definitive testing.i am also also wondering about any possible density difference between sprayed and block. as in strength and insulation properties
Welcome to the group. Be sure to let us know how your project(s) turn out, and send lots of pictures : )thanks for any input
spaceman All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.
ok in the grand some day plan i want to move to mexico and make a huge dome PC of course. like a supported second floor sleeping area.
i was thinking about a spray application over hardware cloth near the interior (and possibly exterior somehow) to prevent cracking. this brings support issues to keep it upright long enough to apply PC ... any ideas will be appreciated. i was thinking a actual half round dome i can pivot a form of wood metal or fiberglass set off from the centerpoint with a triangular frame.
or seeing space man's dome i was reminded of the PC fence where 'flat' panels were capped with what appeared to be steel/aluminum framing.. i could very well make traingles of thin ~2 inch edge capped with steel studs. then to assemble by quickly tack welding on the inside of the dome where geometry would place the edges close enough to make it possible.
this brings me to the dis-simmular expantion rates of steel and PC. will this create problems?
then i can fill out the structure of the dome by stapling chicken wire and placing wire condiuts and pex water lines and spraying PC and finish coats on either side. bringing the total thickness to what 18-24 at the base and thinner at the top.
also i am wondering what the 'open' time on papercrete is like if i was to spray 2 inches in a pass to allow the initial drainage to happen. how long will i have when the PC is set or initial drainage has occured and when the chemicial reaction has slowed or stopped. making for the maximum bond
i am also also wondering about any possible density difference between sprayed and block. as in strength and insulation properties
thanks for any input
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I use the above mixing blade, when at rest (and clean, which it is not clean in this photo) the blades hang down, the second it is engaged it opens up into a 5 blade mixing paddle, the ends of the blades are rounded so you can run it right up against the sides of a plastic bucket and do no harm, I can mix 20 gallons of pulp in less than 3 minutes. When I first started I used it to do the entire mix and still do on small batches (5 gallons or less) but now I mostly use it to pulp my paper before loading the cement mixer with the pulp. I have learned to keep two gallons of wet pulp aside and mix my dry portland cement with those two wet gallons of pulp and then add that to the wet pulp in the mixer, it seems to make a quicker slurry and is ready for the dry clay addition which I do last after the cement has been sucked into the pulp.
BTB
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "amherstburg46" <amherstburg46@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, for a mixer. I have read that you can use an "x" stucco blade attached to a drill to mix the papercrete. I have not been able to find them locally, and I was wondering if a paint mixer drill attachment would suffice ? Just looking at it there would be very litte of a cutting effect. Right now, I am only looking at doing a few small test batches, so I would not be interested in investing time and money into any of those wonderful mixing machines people on here seem to be making.
>
> Another question. I live in a humid part of Canada and intend to use make a large solar greenhouse with the papercrete. So I am interested in something with a high insulating value which at the same time is resistant to mold and rot associated with high humidity. I was wondering if it would be possible to create a brick much like a bi-metal coin (a toonie for any Canadians reading this). I could create the first brick with just paper and concrete. I would obviously shrink with that sort of mixture. When it dried, and shrank, I would put it in the same mould which I would then fill with a mix that had high amounts of concrete and sand. This would create a brick with an insulating interior but a strong, mould resistant exterior.
>
> If anyone could provide a clue, I would appreciate it. Thanks
>
Copper compounds are also biocidal.
I've not tried a chain for mixing, but from the videos it looks like a better bet.
Other options than blocks are getting popular now, especially slip forming. That could avoid the time consuming multilayer block approach.
NT
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "amherstburg46" <amherstburg46@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, for a mixer. I have read that you can use an "x" stucco blade attached to a drill to mix the papercrete. I have not been able to find them locally, and I was wondering if a paint mixer drill attachment would suffice ? Just looking at it there would be very litte of a cutting effect. Right now, I am only looking at doing a few small test batches, so I would not be interested in investing time and money into any of those wonderful mixing machines people on here seem to be making.
>
> Another question. I live in a humid part of Canada and intend to use make a large solar greenhouse with the papercrete. So I am interested in something with a high insulating value which at the same time is resistant to mold and rot associated with high humidity. I was wondering if it would be possible to create a brick much like a bi-metal coin (a toonie for any Canadians reading this). I could create the first brick with just paper and concrete. I would obviously shrink with that sort of mixture. When it dried, and shrank, I would put it in the same mould which I would then fill with a mix that had high amounts of concrete and sand. This would create a brick with an insulating interior but a strong, mould resistant exterior.
>
> If anyone could provide a clue, I would appreciate it. Thanks
>
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18% moisture, I meant to say.
spaceman All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.
You want to keep the interior of the pc down to 18% or less if you can.
On 5/24/2010 5:53 PM, amherstburg46 wrote:
In message 9592 Cris posted a link to a video showing a mixer made from a steel shaft with about five links of chain attached to the end of it, the middle link being the attached one so when it was spinning it had an equal number of links spinning on each side. In a drill it did a nice job of mixing paint and dry powders, and I intended to make one to try with papercrete but have been tied up with other things. It should be a bit safer than spinning sharp blades. If you try one, please let us know how it works and even post photos and videos. You tube has a papercrete group that is associated with us, so there's another resource if you have a decent web connection.First of all, for a mixer. I have read that you can use an "x" stucco blade attached to a drill to mix the papercrete. I have not been able to find them locally, and I was wondering if a paint mixer drill attachment would suffice ? Just looking at it there would be very litte of a cutting effect. Right now, I am only looking at doing a few small test batches, so I would not be interested in investing time and money into any of those wonderful mixing machines people on here seem to be making.
Borax or boric acid are used to prevent mold and rot, and also act as fireproofing.Another question. I live in a humid part of Canada and intend to use make a large solar greenhouse with the papercrete. So I am interested in something with a high insulating value which at the same time is resistant to mold and rot associated with high humidity. I was wondering if it would be possible to create a brick much like a bi-metal coin (a toonie for any Canadians reading this). I could create the first brick with just paper and concrete. I would obviously shrink with that sort of mixture. When it dried, and shrank, I would put it in the same mould which I would then fill with a mix that had high amounts of concrete and sand. This would create a brick with an insulating interior but a strong, mould resistant exterior.
You'll get lots of help on this list, and reading the 9,000 archived messages will give you a great knowledge base. The vast majority of them are on topic, the moderators run a pretty tight ship around here.If anyone could provide a clue, I would appreciate it. Thanks
spaceman All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.
I am new here as well but, I just posted pictures of the tools I am using. If you look there you will see my bladed mixer that I use for pulping the paper. I am using a simple $29 drill and the home made blade I have pictured there.
Cost was roughly 7$ to make as I bought a 36" long 1/4-20 threaded rod for a buck and about 30 1/4-20 hex nuts for 3$. I bought a lot extra incase one or two got lost in the mixing process. Then I bought 3-1/2" scraper replacement blades as they already had two holes in them. I used my dremel to open up one hole on one end to fit the 1/4-20 rod. Then it was just a matter of putting the nuts on the rod locking them against eachother and placing the blades on.
Just a bit of info about mixing in a 5 gallon bucket.
1. be sure to use the lid of the bucket with a hole in the center this will reduce splash as the drill will throw half the material out if you don't<<<<learned the hard way the first time.
2. Don't attack it all at once. Keep the blade above the material and then slowly drop it down into the material when the drill kicks back a bit back off and do it again continue this up and down motion until you feel it reach the bottom. Believe it or not I just pulped over 100 gallons of paper today doing this. Also after a while of doing it I learned to do a simple count of 50-75 times up and down in the paper. It pulped nicely with this mixer without overloading the drill and burning it up.
Im like you in regards to the big mixers, while I would like to have one, I do not currently have the resources to make one.
I also found a home made wooden press in the archives here that I plan to build to press blocks out of, I think that might be benificial to your idea about making a block then pouring the outside of it with concrete.
Hoped that helped and by all means you don't have to use my design for a pulping blade. It was just what has worked for me with my limited budget so far.
If you look through the pictures of the other members here you will see different methods of how they pulp and mix materials.
In the short two weeks I have been here I have learned a lot, so take your time enjoy and good luck on your project.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "amherstburg46" <amherstburg46@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, for a mixer. I have read that you can use an "x" stucco blade attached to a drill to mix the papercrete. I have not been able to find them locally, and I was wondering if a paint mixer drill attachment would suffice ? Just looking at it there would be very litte of a cutting effect. Right now, I am only looking at doing a few small test batches, so I would not be interested in investing time and money into any of those wonderful mixing machines people on here seem to be making.
>
> Another question. I live in a humid part of Canada and intend to use make a large solar greenhouse with the papercrete. So I am interested in something with a high insulating value which at the same time is resistant to mold and rot associated with high humidity. I was wondering if it would be possible to create a brick much like a bi-metal coin (a toonie for any Canadians reading this). I could create the first brick with just paper and concrete. I would obviously shrink with that sort of mixture. When it dried, and shrank, I would put it in the same mould which I would then fill with a mix that had high amounts of concrete and sand. This would create a brick with an insulating interior but a strong, mould resistant exterior.
>
> If anyone could provide a clue, I would appreciate it. Thanks
>
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I posted the 3 day results of the sand mold trial to make faux stones,
although it seemed to work, I am not impressed with the results. This
method could be used if someone has no other way of making stones. I
think I will stay with my other two methods, using the Walk Maker Form
and using Papercrete to make a mold.
BTB
P.S. My window fill project is almost complete, I am well pleased with
the results of that, and also my wall addition at home is going quite
well, I hope to add updates to both projects soon.
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Hi, everyone today I finally got my camera back up and running after not using it for two years. I posted some pics in the photo album that shows the tools I have so far and my first project with papercrete. While its not pretty I am throughly pleased with how its turning out so far.
Tomorrow I plan on building the wood press that I found in the archives to see how it will work in pressing a block. So far I have been doing a abstract version of slip forming.
In the Pics you will be able to see the home made paper pulper I made from a couple of cheap materials. So far I am impressed with how its working with a simple drill.
Anyway look forward to hearing from everyone with ideas or comments.
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First of all, for a mixer. I have read that you can use an "x" stucco blade attached to a drill to mix the papercrete. I have not been able to find them locally, and I was wondering if a paint mixer drill attachment would suffice ? Just looking at it there would be very litte of a cutting effect. Right now, I am only looking at doing a few small test batches, so I would not be interested in investing time and money into any of those wonderful mixing machines people on here seem to be making.
Another question. I live in a humid part of Canada and intend to use make a large solar greenhouse with the papercrete. So I am interested in something with a high insulating value which at the same time is resistant to mold and rot associated with high humidity. I was wondering if it would be possible to create a brick much like a bi-metal coin (a toonie for any Canadians reading this). I could create the first brick with just paper and concrete. I would obviously shrink with that sort of mixture. When it dried, and shrank, I would put it in the same mould which I would then fill with a mix that had high amounts of concrete and sand. This would create a brick with an insulating interior but a strong, mould resistant exterior.
If anyone could provide a clue, I would appreciate it. Thanks
------------------------------------
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Anthony, thanks for the tip. I know you called this weekend but I was gone. Got home late last night and found my internet connection was out. Now I am running late to go help my daughter with a project.
I have deided to work almost full time on my little buildings to get them done in 13 weeks. I may have to go back to work and want to see some progress. Also it's getting hot so it's best to do as muh as possible now.
I enjoyed our conversation and will talk to you again.
Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
Wow, and I thought I was impressed before, I am seriously amazed at how cheap you have been able to keep the expansion while gaining so much extra space. 750sf is more than what is available in a 14 x 70 single wide trailer, for that matter its 3/4 of the space that is available in some of the row houses we have here.
(back in the 40's and 50's furniture and textile mills here in our area built row houses that had about 900 sf in them. All of them were practically alike and the "company store" mentality was used for people to buy them from the factories. This was the factories way of ensuring they would have a steady flow of skilled or qualified labor)
To think that today in our bedraggled economy that someone could build a home for that little amount of money is fantastic. The more I explore this the more enthused I get about it..;)
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Doris Burton <yakishome@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Anthony.
> Thank you for the great compliments.
> We have been working on this project for a total of about 14 months, couldn't work in the cold months but now that it is almost all enclosed we will work right through the winter if need be to get all the finishing work done.
> This addition is about 750 SF we have added to the existing house, so far we have 9,579.80 into the project and we don't have to purchase much more to have it finished as that includes our hickory floor that will go down in the bedroom also all lighting, ceiling fan's etc. Our goal when we started was to keep it with in $10,000. I have done a lot of shopping for things on Craig’s list and garage sales for used materials like doors, windows, sinks, bathtub, shower pan, etc.
> Hope this helps.
> Always happy to answer any questions you might have about what we have done.
> Â
> Doris and Ron
>
> --- On Sun, 5/23/10, Anthony <shadowweaver2010@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Anthony <shadowweaver2010@...>
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Ron and Doris back at work
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 23, 2010, 12:40 PM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ron and Doris, I just sat here for the past hour looking at all the pics you posted. I am in awe That is the one of the most awesome things I have seen in a long time. The two of you must be very patient to be able to construct all of that. I did learn a few things from how you two did your work and for that I greatly appreciate your contribution to the group. Pictures always tell great stories and yours is one that tells a great one. Just out of curiosity with all that you have done so far have you been keeping tabs on the amount of money you have spent on the project? I would be interested in knowing as I am on a seriously limited budget here. Again wonderful pics look forward to seeing more and the finished product..;)
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "doris" <yakishome@> wrote:
> >
> > Ronnie and I are back at working on our Bedroom/ Bath/ Laundry room. After a little bump in the road back in November of me having some health issues that kept me down for about five months. We are very happy to be a live and able to start back on our dream and love of working in papercrete.
> > We just posted 26 more photo's from where we left off last year.
> >
> > Happy papercreting to all!!!!!
> > Doris and Ron
> >
>
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