Papercreters: July 2007

Tuesday, July 31, 2007

Re: [papercreters] Re: PC fire resistance

Duane may be using the words boric acid and borax synonymously. The Forest Service research (2004 paper) that Duane implicitly references does not use borax in the tests for fire retardation. It uses boric acid in about a 3.5% concentration by weight. It also uses a chemical called guanylurea phosphate (GUP) by itself and in combination with boric acid. That combination (7.5% total weight) gave the best fire retardation properties, so it may be worth consideration for use in PC when maximum fire retardation is important.

Neal

----- Original Message -----

From: slurryguy

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:04 PM

Subject: [papercreters] Re: PC fire resistance

Hi Duane,

Your results are close to inline with my experiments, but I don't
agree with your conclusions. Papercrete can be made such that it
will not continue to smolder. Please continue to experiment.

I've conducted ALMOST the exact same test you conducted. I didn't
use any borax in a 1:1:1 paper, portland, sand test mix and obtained
very similar results.

2-1 ratio of portand to paper seems to be very close to the point
where papercrete begins to become non smolder supporting.

All papercrete will char on the surface when exposed to a torch in
the manner you conducted your test. Higher mineral content mixes
will not continue to smolder. Also keep in mind that air circulation
affects the test. If the small embers are fanned sufficiently they
will tend to smolder hotter and longer.

I'm curious about your logic about using a mixture of both boric acid
and borax. One is acidic the other is alkaline. It seems they would
chemically react and form a boric salt and a little (very little)
extra water. I don't know if boric salt has the same combustion
retarding properties as plain borax. I also don't know if boric salt
will penetrate inside the paper fibers the same. 8% borates seems
very high and should have produced much better results than observed
in your test. I'm wondering if the acid/alkaline reaction might be
the reason. Just guessing.

Keep in mind that portland is not the only material that can raise
the mineral content to bring papercrete's fire resistance up to a
level that it will not continue to smolder. Clay works very well.

1:1:1:1 paper, portland, clay, sand with some plain borax will fare
far far better. It might continue to smolder for a short time, but
it will not consume the whole sample as you experienced.

Alternatively 2:1:1 portland, paper, sand with plain borax will also
fare well.

2:1:3:2 paper, portland, clay, sand with some plain borax will also
fare well, but will take longer to dry.

I encourage you to keep experimenting and reporting your results.
The experiment you conducted is not a failure. It's part of the
learning process.

One more thought. When did you add your borates? My rule of thumb
is to add the borax to the paper as soon as possible during the
pulping process. This gives maximum opportunity for it to soak into
the paper.

(All ratios I listed are BY WEIGHT)

Keep having fun. Keep sharing.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mdumiller" <mdmiller1@...>
wrote:
>
> I ran a fairly unscientific but interesting fire-resistance test on
a
> PC sample I had made. From what I see, I'm not convinced that PC
can
> be made totally fire resistant without a lot of additives
(increasing
> its cost to make). My mix included a borax/boric acid mix in a
> weight ratio equal to what the forest service recommends for making
> wood more fire-resistant.
> What was interesting was that the material never at any time as a
> fuel source produced an open flame, only smoldering. Another fact
I
> found interesting was that the block continued to smolder for
twenty
> minutes after the propane torch was removed, looking like a piece
of
> charcoal from the barbecue grill. I would imagine that doubling
the
> portland would slow the smoldering, but I had hoped the borax/boric
> acid mix would extinguish the block once the torch was removed--but
> no luck.
> Some type of integral firestopping might makes sense when PC is
used
> in a wall to limit the spread of the smoldering, since ultimately
the
> block was consummed. To play it safe, I believe that the wall
> surface should be coated with a plaster or gypsum product to
prevent
> the smoldering from starting. Here is a link to pictures:
> http://www.domovitae.com/fcrete/pcfire.htm
>
> food for thought - Duane.
>

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[papercreters] Papercrete 101

As of yesterday, I've amassed each of the elements I need to make my first experimental batch of papercrete:

- Hilti SR 16 cool-as-sh*t heavy-duty drill

- 24" Quick Mud Mixer

- Several 5-gallon buckets

- Paper shredder

- Newspaper

- Portland cement

- 4 8' cedar 2x6s to make the form

- Cedar screws & metal corner pieces

- 2 pallets for the blocks to drain on

I've found recipes for 200-gallon tow mixers, but extrapolating that recipe down to a 5-gallon bucket is beyond my mathematical skills. I seem to recall someone posting here in the last month or so about his/her recipe for 5-gallon buckets. I'll do a search, but if you know what I'm talking about, if you could point me to that discussion, I'd be ever so grateful.

OH -- and thanks to those of you who were so nice and responded to my premature question about wall building. I've decided to make some blocks first, then worry about wall footings.

To my neighbor in St. Hedwig -- I'm north of Dripping Springs, out by Hamilton Pool -- caliche country.

Melody in TX

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[papercreters] Re: PC fire resistance

Hi Duane,

Your results are close to inline with my experiments, but I don't
agree with your conclusions. Papercrete can be made such that it
will not continue to smolder. Please continue to experiment.

I've conducted ALMOST the exact same test you conducted. I didn't
use any borax in a 1:1:1 paper, portland, sand test mix and obtained
very similar results.

2-1 ratio of portand to paper seems to be very close to the point
where papercrete begins to become non smolder supporting.

All papercrete will char on the surface when exposed to a torch in
the manner you conducted your test. Higher mineral content mixes
will not continue to smolder. Also keep in mind that air circulation
affects the test. If the small embers are fanned sufficiently they
will tend to smolder hotter and longer.

I'm curious about your logic about using a mixture of both boric acid
and borax. One is acidic the other is alkaline. It seems they would
chemically react and form a boric salt and a little (very little)
extra water. I don't know if boric salt has the same combustion
retarding properties as plain borax. I also don't know if boric salt
will penetrate inside the paper fibers the same. 8% borates seems
very high and should have produced much better results than observed
in your test. I'm wondering if the acid/alkaline reaction might be
the reason. Just guessing.

Keep in mind that portland is not the only material that can raise
the mineral content to bring papercrete's fire resistance up to a
level that it will not continue to smolder. Clay works very well.

1:1:1:1 paper, portland, clay, sand with some plain borax will fare
far far better. It might continue to smolder for a short time, but
it will not consume the whole sample as you experienced.

Alternatively 2:1:1 portland, paper, sand with plain borax will also
fare well.

2:1:3:2 paper, portland, clay, sand with some plain borax will also
fare well, but will take longer to dry.

I encourage you to keep experimenting and reporting your results.
The experiment you conducted is not a failure. It's part of the
learning process.

One more thought. When did you add your borates? My rule of thumb
is to add the borax to the paper as soon as possible during the
pulping process. This gives maximum opportunity for it to soak into
the paper.

(All ratios I listed are BY WEIGHT)

Keep having fun. Keep sharing.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mdumiller" <mdmiller1@...>
wrote:
>
> I ran a fairly unscientific but interesting fire-resistance test on
a
> PC sample I had made. From what I see, I'm not convinced that PC
can
> be made totally fire resistant without a lot of additives
(increasing
> its cost to make). My mix included a borax/boric acid mix in a
> weight ratio equal to what the forest service recommends for making
> wood more fire-resistant.
> What was interesting was that the material never at any time as a
> fuel source produced an open flame, only smoldering. Another fact
I
> found interesting was that the block continued to smolder for
twenty
> minutes after the propane torch was removed, looking like a piece
of
> charcoal from the barbecue grill. I would imagine that doubling
the
> portland would slow the smoldering, but I had hoped the borax/boric
> acid mix would extinguish the block once the torch was removed--but
> no luck.
> Some type of integral firestopping might makes sense when PC is
used
> in a wall to limit the spread of the smoldering, since ultimately
the
> block was consummed. To play it safe, I believe that the wall
> surface should be coated with a plaster or gypsum product to
prevent
> the smoldering from starting. Here is a link to pictures:
> http://www.domovitae.com/fcrete/pcfire.htm
>
> food for thought - Duane.
>

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[papercreters] New here.. Introduction

Hello all, I'm new to papercreteing.. but here is some background.

Were moving in the future and want to start fresh, and go pure green..
or as pure as we can.. without going broke.. I was looking into
strawbale construction but wanted to go even greener and cheaper..
Found papercrete.. Fell in love..

A Little background, My philosophy in life is to live of the the
tremendous amount of waste that average people have..

I am a average American for the most part, our household is average
middle class wages.. But I have always had a urge to be more self
sustained have always liked sustainability and preparedness.. But the
rat race didn't seen conducive to this in any way.. so a quest was
started..

First I started stashing away food and supplies for a emergency such
as we live in northern climates and a big winter storm can leave us
with out power and or travel for a week easily... The it was a wood
stove as a backup heat, now its our primary heat, burning all deadwood
and scrap pallets I get for free.. This was great prepaired and cheap
also.. so that started the long quest for cheap and renewable ways to
live at a lower cost with out being a society outcast.

I started dumpster diving for stuff, had much success and could not
believe the great stuff I found, every thing from electronics to
dining room kitchen sets, new int he box with only minor imperfections
that were easy to fix.. perfectly good stuff, beautiful stuff even.
And it was kind of fun, kind of treasure hunting in a way.

This really got me thinking what stuff do people throw away that is
still usable and in good working order.. for a while I came up with
nothing, then we bought a cheap used travel trailer to rebuild, but we
needed a larger vehicle to pull it.. I started looking into a full
size truck and found out about burning vegetable oil, and running it
in a diesel.. I got a diesel and converted it found sources for old
veggie oil and now I drive on veggie oil every day to commute to
work.. and I'm converting a second vehicle for the wife currently,
this opened up a entirely new ideal for me.. Using a total waste
product for everyday things and saving a ton of money doing it, I then
started searching on straw bale construction because of the great
efficiency and low cost of it.. I found paper create and..well, it fit
perfectly taking total waste and adding a bit of concrete and making a
efficient cheap durable building material.. did lots of research and
Now I'm here.

I have not made papercrete yet but plan on doing small batches.. and
building a passive solar heated shed in the back yard as a proof of
concept. I have the floor already made its elevated and insulated,
off of the ground mounted on pilons, was going to stick frame it but
this seems like the perfect way to dabble in papercrete, before we
move and build a house with it.

I'll probably hang here and absorb all the info I can before I begin
the shed.

Thanks for having me.
Jason

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[papercreters] PC fire resistance

I ran a fairly unscientific but interesting fire-resistance test on a
PC sample I had made. From what I see, I'm not convinced that PC can
be made totally fire resistant without a lot of additives (increasing
its cost to make). My mix included a borax/boric acid mix in a
weight ratio equal to what the forest service recommends for making
wood more fire-resistant.
What was interesting was that the material never at any time as a
fuel source produced an open flame, only smoldering. Another fact I
found interesting was that the block continued to smolder for twenty
minutes after the propane torch was removed, looking like a piece of
charcoal from the barbecue grill. I would imagine that doubling the
portland would slow the smoldering, but I had hoped the borax/boric
acid mix would extinguish the block once the torch was removed--but
no luck.
Some type of integral firestopping might makes sense when PC is used
in a wall to limit the spread of the smoldering, since ultimately the
block was consummed. To play it safe, I believe that the wall
surface should be coated with a plaster or gypsum product to prevent
the smoldering from starting. Here is a link to pictures:
http://www.domovitae.com/fcrete/pcfire.htm

food for thought - Duane.

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[papercreters] A bit of light reading...

http://www.iccsafe.org/news/green/ICC_Green_Building_White_Paper.pdf
(http://tinyurl.com/328vj7)
Page 8, Real vs Perceived Barries to Green Building

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Re: [papercreters] A bit of light reading...

Nice find Ernie, informative.

Keep that stuff coming.

oh...and<offtopic> hold off on the wordpress thing ElfNori has it set-up at the papercreters.net site. Once the finish touches are on we goona destroy the other one and start using the one she made.

I'll post the whole address when its ready.

Chris

----- Original Message -----

From: Ernie Phelps

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:40 PM

Subject: [papercreters] A bit of light reading...

http://www.iccsafe.org/news/green/ICC_Green_Building_White_Paper.pdf
(http://tinyurl.com/328vj7)
Page 8, Real vs Perceived Barries to Green Building

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

As I said earlier, and Nori also said, perhaps we should have several classifications. PC for blocks/panels/slip form, pc for infill, and pc for spray. For infill I normally don't add portland cement, using just paper and borax. The formula for blocks and spray is similar, with water being the main variable. IMHO the block/panel/slipform should be the main target as that seems to be the most common application. I suppose at some point we'll have to demonstrate what we all know - that the water content is not critical since it drains away. Personally I'd like to see pc with dirt vs pc without dirt since I don't use any dirt at all. Once Nori has a chance to finish the formulas db that should be an invaluable source of data.

There has already been some testing done. Results from NMSU are on my site at http://files.starship-enterprises.net/papercrete%20strength%20tests.jpg

It was mentioned earlier, we have an onboard Architect who is doing testing, too.

SG said getting familiar with the requirements and procedures at http://www.iccsafe.org/ is probably a first step, then we'll know better which way to run.

Another thought - are we going to address the insulation properties as well as the structural properties?

Spaceman

lefamaster wrote:

Thank you spaceman.     Now we need to figure out where to start. There appears to be a  couple of areas in the project we need to sort out in order to begin.  1. What use and recipe to focus on -a) One universal recipe versus a  variable formula to achieve a uniform testing material. b) The method  of use or application to target for the Draft.   2.  Who is going to provide the testing, and what type of testing?  Contacts need to made to local Universites and Trade Asscociations  that pertain to PC, and some authority on materials needs to provide  assist us in data harvesting. I have sent out preliminary emials to  PCA and the Colorado University Engineering Departments.  If others  could follow this lead and turn over a few rocks to see if we cant  gain an academic alliance, it would be deeply appreciated.   thoughts? comments?        Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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[papercreters] Code Expectations

I think it's important to establish our expectations for the
Papercrete Code Project.

What do we as a group hope to accomplish?

We don't have to get into the nitty gritty details of code
specifics. For this thing to work we all need a good understanding
where we're going and what our goals are. It will help us all pull
together in the same direction.

I'll toss out a few inital opinions of my own. Hopefully others will
chime in and add to the list. Just because I propose one of these
doesn't mean everyone will agree. Feel free to tell me I'm missing
the boat.

1. Create a draft document suitable for submission to the ICC.

2. Create a code that is do-it-yourself friendly. While I'm not
wanting to prevent commercial businesses from making, promoting, and
selling papercrete, it's important that individuals that choose to
make their own be able to do so. If a commercial entity were to
write the code, they might try to put hurdles too difficult for
individuals to jump to force people to buy their product.

3. Ideally we'd be able to include all uses of papercrete. We may
determine that a divide and conquer approach is more practical. If
we can, let's try to include blocks, slipforming, roof panels,
stucco, plaster, and whatever else.

Feel free to comment and/or add your own thoughts.

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Portell" <chris@...> wrote:
> Now in preperation of the "live" date, when we switch this
> particular discussion from here to there I need all who are
> interested in this project to sign up for a user account at
> http://wordpress.com/signup

Signed up as eepjr24.

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

Thank you spaceman.

Now we need to figure out where to start. There appears to be a
couple of areas in the project we need to sort out in order to begin.

1. What use and recipe to focus on -a) One universal recipe versus a
variable formula to achieve a uniform testing material. b) The method
of use or application to target for the Draft.

2. Who is going to provide the testing, and what type of testing?
Contacts need to made to local Universites and Trade Asscociations
that pertain to PC, and some authority on materials needs to provide
assist us in data harvesting. I have sent out preliminary emials to
PCA and the Colorado University Engineering Departments. If others
could follow this lead and turn over a few rocks to see if we cant
gain an academic alliance, it would be deeply appreciated.

thoughts? comments?

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Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Building Code Nomination

me2

Spaceman

Jay Hawk wrote:

slurryguy <--------one volunteer willing to help

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

<LOL> Not my first laugh of the morning, but definately the loudest.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Portell

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:02 AM

Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

.

I printed out the apology and pinned it to my wall, might even get it framed. LOL

Chris

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

<LOL> You hit a trigger with wikipedia. I have never been to one that provided the depth of knowledge I require when researching. I consider them "fluff" sites, not tools to be used for serious research. They contain surface knowledge provided by the any number of people in the general public. The are the equivalent of a topic specific forum for which anyone can write. The ones that massively irritate me are the ones which offer medical advice. My favorite example is the one offering medical advice where the advice is given by a forensic scientist. <eyes wide in disbelief> Oh, yeah, I'm game for medical advice from a guy who cuts up dead people, someone who has no research experience in the field on which he's giving advice. <shaking head> No thankyou.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: slurryguy

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:18 AM

Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

Some day maybe we can convice Nori to express her feelings and not
hold back so much. YIKES!

Hey. I said I've never used it. Looks like Chris likes WordPress
already. I've never used that either. We aren't all web designer
gurus.

Excuse me while I find my head. It's rolling on the floor somewhere
after it got chopped off. Does somebody have some Neosporin and a
few Bandaids?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
>
> PLEASE don't suggest wikipedia. It SUCKS. It's public and not the
right format for what we want to do. WordPress, on the other hand,
suits the requirement admirably.
>
> ElfN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: slurryguy
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:04 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination
>
>
> I agree that we need some sort of online document system. Ideally
no
> documents get stored on anyone's hard drive.
>
> Having never used WordPress I'm off to learn more about it. Since
> Chris is leading the writing effort, he certainly needs to be
> comfortable with whatever system gets used.
>
> I think wikipedia also has some kind of group document generation
> system that isn't really part of the encyclopedia. I've never
used
> it.
>
> Is there a Google App that would do the job? Dunno.
>
> I don't really care exactly what gets used, as long as we can get
the
> job done.
>
> For starters (first few days anyway), let's go ahead an post
about
> this project here in the Papercreters list. It will help people
> learn about what we're doing and give them a chance to offer
their
> assistance. Once we have things started, we'll move it off to
> another list as needed.
>
> I really want to encourage this to be a very open process. Anyone
> wanting to have input into the code proposal should get the
chance to
> speak their mind. Of course, those that are helping will be
better
> informed and have better opportunities to have their opinions and
> ideas incorporated. (what better reason to offer your help)
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@> wrote:
> >
> > One more thing . . . I'd like to suggest setting up a WordPress
> site so the work in progress can be posted by those actively
working
> on the code and commented on by those of us interested. I don't
> think the general pc list is the right place for this work.
Posting
> the end result to the list makes sense, just not all the grunt
work
> and prep in getting the code built.
> >
> > ElfN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chris Portell
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
> Nomination
> >
> >
> >
> > I about fell out of my chair, then a wave of energy came over
me
> that resounded the truth of everything you just said. It has been
the
> dream that has added fuel to my endeavors from the start.
> >
> > Where to start? We need ElfNori's organizational skills to
> start. Slurryguys technical input as always, and Ernies out the
box
> ways of tackling roadblocks. In fact we need everyone. Call to
arms
> folks.
> >
> > Some basics:
> > Sample Building codes of various materials.
> > Outline of the process.
> > Breakdown of teams.
> > More recipe posts.
> > Geological Engineer's Analysis or similar data.
> >
> > I am so appreciative of this offer. I hope everyone will reap
the
> benefit of what we are about to accomplish.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Chris Portell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: slurryguy
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:54 AM
> > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination
> >
> >
> > Thanks Ernie!
> >
> > Good man.
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ernie Phelps" <eepjr24@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Jay Hawk <slurryguy@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Who here is willing to help Chris? Who will step up and
> make
> > this
> > > work?
> > > >
> > > > slurryguy <--------one volunteer willing to help
> > >
> > > Ernie Phelps.
> > >
> > > I am willing to help. I am decent with research, juggling and
> > > organizing numbers, charts, and I can find stuff on the web
> pretty
> > > well (MSDS, case studies of similar materials, definitions,
> etc).
> > >
> > > Let me know how I can help.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release
Date:
> 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release Date:
7/28/2007 3:50 PM
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release Date: 7/28/2007 3:50 PM

__._,_.___

SPONSORED LINKS

`Home repair improvement`	`Papercrete`	`International building code`
`Home and gardens`	`2000 international building code`

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

I have apologized offlist to Chris for jumping in too enthusiastically. Mea culpa.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: slurryguy

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:06 AM

Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

I really like Chris' enthusiasm. Don't let anyone slow you down
Chris. Take charge and let's hit the ground running.

I like Nori's idea too. Let's work together gang.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Portell" <chris@...>
wrote:
>
> okay...I thought that is what was going on, fairly new to
wordpress, but i thought that is what I was doing?.....Elf take over
the setup if need be, I just need to be able to post and look at the
other data.....don't really have a preference as to where it is
located....just figure it was 50 more Megabytes of free space :)
>
> You are a bit more expereinced so please take the wheel here, as I
am rambling around in the ditch.
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ElfNori
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Building Code Laboratory -
Wordpress Site
>
>
>
> NO!! NO!! We set up wordpress, then add the people who are
contributing to the code discussion as users to that setup!
>
> And let's stick it right on the papercreters.net or org or
whatever we already own. We don't need it on the wordpress site.
>
> ElfN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Portell
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:02 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete Building Code Laboratory -
Wordpress Site
>
>
>
> Dug around on wordpress, and was fairly impressed. I think it
will serve our purpose fairly well. Now in preperation of the "live"
date, when we switch this particular discussion from here to there I
need all who are interested in this project to sign up for a user
account at http://wordpress.com/signup
>
> Once we determine who, and when, then the place is going to be:
> http://papercreters.wordpress.com
> but all interested in contributing will need a user account in
order to publish. I have tried to keep it as low impact as possible
in considerations of dial-up users. We can make modifications to
the format as needed.
>
> More to follow.
> I am soooo excited!
> Chris Portell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: slurryguy
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
Nomination
>
>
> I agree that we need some sort of online document system.
Ideally no
> documents get stored on anyone's hard drive.
>
> Having never used WordPress I'm off to learn more about it.
Since
> Chris is leading the writing effort, he certainly needs to be
> comfortable with whatever system gets used.
>
> I think wikipedia also has some kind of group document
generation
> system that isn't really part of the encyclopedia. I've never
used
> it.
>
> Is there a Google App that would do the job? Dunno.
>
> I don't really care exactly what gets used, as long as we can
get the
> job done.
>
> For starters (first few days anyway), let's go ahead an post
about
> this project here in the Papercreters list. It will help
people
> learn about what we're doing and give them a chance to offer
their
> assistance. Once we have things started, we'll move it off to
> another list as needed.
>
> I really want to encourage this to be a very open process.
Anyone
> wanting to have input into the code proposal should get the
chance to
> speak their mind. Of course, those that are helping will be
better
> informed and have better opportunities to have their opinions
and
> ideas incorporated. (what better reason to offer your help)
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@> wrote:
> >
> > One more thing . . . I'd like to suggest setting up a
WordPress
> site so the work in progress can be posted by those actively
working
> on the code and commented on by those of us interested. I
don't
> think the general pc list is the right place for this work.
Posting
> the end result to the list makes sense, just not all the
grunt work
> and prep in getting the code built.
> >
> > ElfN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chris Portell
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
> Nomination
> >
> >
> >
> > I about fell out of my chair, then a wave of energy came
over me
> that resounded the truth of everything you just said. It has
been the
> dream that has added fuel to my endeavors from the start.
> >
> > Where to start? We need ElfNori's organizational skills to
> start. Slurryguys technical input as always, and Ernies out
the box
> ways of tackling roadblocks. In fact we need everyone. Call
to arms
> folks.
> >
> > Some basics:
> > Sample Building codes of various materials.
> > Outline of the process.
> > Breakdown of teams.
> > More recipe posts.
> > Geological Engineer's Analysis or similar data.
> >
> > I am so appreciative of this offer. I hope everyone will
reap the
> benefit of what we are about to accomplish.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Chris Portell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: slurryguy
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:54 AM
> > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
Nomination
> >
> >
> > Thanks Ernie!
> >
> > Good man.
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ernie Phelps"
<eepjr24@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Jay Hawk
<slurryguy@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Who here is willing to help Chris? Who will step up and
> make
> > this
> > > work?
> > > >
> > > > slurryguy <--------one volunteer willing to help
> > >
> > > Ernie Phelps.
> > >
> > > I am willing to help. I am decent with research, juggling
and
> > > organizing numbers, charts, and I can find stuff on the
web
> pretty
> > > well (MSDS, case studies of similar materials,
definitions,
> etc).
> > >
> > > Let me know how I can help.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release
Date:
> 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release
Date: 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release Date: 7/28/2007 3:50 PM

__._,_.___

SPONSORED LINKS

`Home repair improvement`	`Papercrete`	`International building code`
`Home and gardens`	`2000 international building code`

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

Some day maybe we can convice Nori to express her feelings and not
hold back so much. YIKES!

Hey. I said I've never used it. Looks like Chris likes WordPress
already. I've never used that either. We aren't all web designer
gurus.

Excuse me while I find my head. It's rolling on the floor somewhere
after it got chopped off. Does somebody have some Neosporin and a
few Bandaids?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
>
> PLEASE don't suggest wikipedia. It SUCKS. It's public and not the
right format for what we want to do. WordPress, on the other hand,
suits the requirement admirably.
>
> ElfN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: slurryguy
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:04 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination
>
>
> I agree that we need some sort of online document system. Ideally
no
> documents get stored on anyone's hard drive.
>
> Having never used WordPress I'm off to learn more about it. Since
> Chris is leading the writing effort, he certainly needs to be
> comfortable with whatever system gets used.
>
> I think wikipedia also has some kind of group document generation
> system that isn't really part of the encyclopedia. I've never
used
> it.
>
> Is there a Google App that would do the job? Dunno.
>
> I don't really care exactly what gets used, as long as we can get
the
> job done.
>
> For starters (first few days anyway), let's go ahead an post
about
> this project here in the Papercreters list. It will help people
> learn about what we're doing and give them a chance to offer
their
> assistance. Once we have things started, we'll move it off to
> another list as needed.
>
> I really want to encourage this to be a very open process. Anyone
> wanting to have input into the code proposal should get the
chance to
> speak their mind. Of course, those that are helping will be
better
> informed and have better opportunities to have their opinions and
> ideas incorporated. (what better reason to offer your help)
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@> wrote:
> >
> > One more thing . . . I'd like to suggest setting up a WordPress
> site so the work in progress can be posted by those actively
working
> on the code and commented on by those of us interested. I don't
> think the general pc list is the right place for this work.
Posting
> the end result to the list makes sense, just not all the grunt
work
> and prep in getting the code built.
> >
> > ElfN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chris Portell
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
> Nomination
> >
> >
> >
> > I about fell out of my chair, then a wave of energy came over
me
> that resounded the truth of everything you just said. It has been
the
> dream that has added fuel to my endeavors from the start.
> >
> > Where to start? We need ElfNori's organizational skills to
> start. Slurryguys technical input as always, and Ernies out the
box
> ways of tackling roadblocks. In fact we need everyone. Call to
arms
> folks.
> >
> > Some basics:
> > Sample Building codes of various materials.
> > Outline of the process.
> > Breakdown of teams.
> > More recipe posts.
> > Geological Engineer's Analysis or similar data.
> >
> > I am so appreciative of this offer. I hope everyone will reap
the
> benefit of what we are about to accomplish.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Chris Portell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: slurryguy
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:54 AM
> > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination
> >
> >
> > Thanks Ernie!
> >
> > Good man.
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ernie Phelps" <eepjr24@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Jay Hawk <slurryguy@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Who here is willing to help Chris? Who will step up and
> make
> > this
> > > work?
> > > >
> > > > slurryguy <--------one volunteer willing to help
> > >
> > > Ernie Phelps.
> > >
> > > I am willing to help. I am decent with research, juggling and
> > > organizing numbers, charts, and I can find stuff on the web
> pretty
> > > well (MSDS, case studies of similar materials, definitions,
> etc).
> > >
> > > Let me know how I can help.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release
Date:
> 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release Date:
7/28/2007 3:50 PM
>

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join

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<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

I really like Chris' enthusiasm. Don't let anyone slow you down
Chris. Take charge and let's hit the ground running.

I like Nori's idea too. Let's work together gang.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Portell" <chris@...>
wrote:
>
> okay...I thought that is what was going on, fairly new to
wordpress, but i thought that is what I was doing?.....Elf take over
the setup if need be, I just need to be able to post and look at the
other data.....don't really have a preference as to where it is
located....just figure it was 50 more Megabytes of free space :)
>
> You are a bit more expereinced so please take the wheel here, as I
am rambling around in the ditch.
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ElfNori
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Building Code Laboratory -
Wordpress Site
>
>
>
> NO!! NO!! We set up wordpress, then add the people who are
contributing to the code discussion as users to that setup!
>
> And let's stick it right on the papercreters.net or org or
whatever we already own. We don't need it on the wordpress site.
>
> ElfN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Portell
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:02 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete Building Code Laboratory -
Wordpress Site
>
>
>
> Dug around on wordpress, and was fairly impressed. I think it
will serve our purpose fairly well. Now in preperation of the "live"
date, when we switch this particular discussion from here to there I
need all who are interested in this project to sign up for a user
account at http://wordpress.com/signup
>
> Once we determine who, and when, then the place is going to be:
>

http://papercreters.wordpress.com

> but all interested in contributing will need a user account in
order to publish. I have tried to keep it as low impact as possible
in considerations of dial-up users. We can make modifications to
the format as needed.
>
> More to follow.
> I am soooo excited!
> Chris Portell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: slurryguy
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
Nomination
>
>
> I agree that we need some sort of online document system.
Ideally no
> documents get stored on anyone's hard drive.
>
> Having never used WordPress I'm off to learn more about it.
Since
> Chris is leading the writing effort, he certainly needs to be
> comfortable with whatever system gets used.
>
> I think wikipedia also has some kind of group document
generation
> system that isn't really part of the encyclopedia. I've never
used
> it.
>
> Is there a Google App that would do the job? Dunno.
>
> I don't really care exactly what gets used, as long as we can
get the
> job done.
>
> For starters (first few days anyway), let's go ahead an post
about
> this project here in the Papercreters list. It will help
people
> learn about what we're doing and give them a chance to offer
their
> assistance. Once we have things started, we'll move it off to
> another list as needed.
>
> I really want to encourage this to be a very open process.
Anyone
> wanting to have input into the code proposal should get the
chance to
> speak their mind. Of course, those that are helping will be
better
> informed and have better opportunities to have their opinions
and
> ideas incorporated. (what better reason to offer your help)
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@> wrote:
> >
> > One more thing . . . I'd like to suggest setting up a
WordPress
> site so the work in progress can be posted by those actively
working
> on the code and commented on by those of us interested. I
don't
> think the general pc list is the right place for this work.
Posting
> the end result to the list makes sense, just not all the
grunt work
> and prep in getting the code built.
> >
> > ElfN
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chris Portell
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
> Nomination
> >
> >
> >
> > I about fell out of my chair, then a wave of energy came
over me
> that resounded the truth of everything you just said. It has
been the
> dream that has added fuel to my endeavors from the start.
> >
> > Where to start? We need ElfNori's organizational skills to
> start. Slurryguys technical input as always, and Ernies out
the box
> ways of tackling roadblocks. In fact we need everyone. Call
to arms
> folks.
> >
> > Some basics:
> > Sample Building codes of various materials.
> > Outline of the process.
> > Breakdown of teams.
> > More recipe posts.
> > Geological Engineer's Analysis or similar data.
> >
> > I am so appreciative of this offer. I hope everyone will
reap the
> benefit of what we are about to accomplish.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Chris Portell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: slurryguy
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:54 AM
> > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code
Nomination
> >
> >
> > Thanks Ernie!
> >
> > Good man.
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ernie Phelps"
<eepjr24@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Jay Hawk
<slurryguy@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Who here is willing to help Chris? Who will step up and
> make
> > this
> > > work?
> > > >
> > > > slurryguy <--------one volunteer willing to help
> > >
> > > Ernie Phelps.
> > >
> > > I am willing to help. I am decent with research, juggling
and
> > > organizing numbers, charts, and I can find stuff on the
web
> pretty
> > > well (MSDS, case studies of similar materials,
definitions,
> etc).
> > >
> > > Let me know how I can help.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release
Date:
> 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release
Date: 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
>

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join

(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Papercreters

Tuesday, July 31, 2007

Re: [papercreters] Re: PC fire resistance

[papercreters] Papercrete 101

[papercreters] Re: PC fire resistance

[papercreters] New here.. Introduction

[papercreters] PC fire resistance

[papercreters] A bit of light reading...

Re: [papercreters] A bit of light reading...

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

[papercreters] Code Expectations

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

Re: [papercreters] Papercrete Building Code Nomination

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Nomination

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Building Code Laboratory - Wordpress Site

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