Papercreters: May 2011

Tuesday, May 31, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Ken Kern was killed when an experimental cave with a pvc roof collapsed, hardly a house. Ken did a lot of experimental things along this line which most people do not do. Certainly I wouldn't. His wife begged him not to spend the night in the cave as it had rained a lot and the roof was saturated. I still stand by my statement that no one was killed when a house collapsed because houses don't collapse except in floods, tornadoes and hurricanes in which case most are built to code. I am certainly not belittling Ron and Doris' house, only trying to make a point that people who are exploring the possibilities of pc construction in this forum are going to be in for a rude awakening when they try to run this by the code people. --- On Tue, 5/31/11, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 31, 2011, 10:14 AM
Google Ken Kern and read about a home collapsing in the night and killing the occupant.

It is possible to build "such a structure within areas where codes are enforced now" if it is well designed and sturdily built. As has been mentioned, if you have the money to hire an engineer you can have plans approved, and build under the legal umbrella. There is more than one company in the pc business that I know of. One is outside Silver City NM, the other is in west Texas. All reports are that their products are very affordable. Neither of them would meet the definition of "big business".

Codes in NM are liberal and have some allowance for DIY. For instance both adobe and rammed earth are in the code. The community of earthships near Tres Piedras is a good example of alternative building being allowed, though there was the usual politics causing unnecessary infrastructure to meet subdivision rules. There are vast areas in the SW US that have no codes enforced, land that you can buy for a few hundred dollars an acre. There are several folks on this list who have done what you say is impossible. Every day you make a choice about where and how you live. It is a lot easier to sit and imagine why things won't work than it is to go try them. Life is full of surprises and things don't always conform to your imagination.

The first known, and most strict, building code in history.

"Should a mason build a home of brick or of stone, and should that home collapse and injure or kill any occupant, the responsible mason shall be slain and his blood and bones built into the repairs of the said stone or brick building."

-Law code of Hammurabi engraved on Babylonian Stele, 1750 b.c.
spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  
On 5/31/2011 7:15 AM, Donald Miller wrote:

You mention that building codes probably save lives. That is the common argument that the code people use and I find it to be very untruthful. I challenge anyone to show documented proof of a home not built to code falling over onto a neighbor's lot, collapsing in the night and killing the occupants or whatever. Houses may sag, foundations will crack and sheetrock break, but, give me a break, they just dont' collapse in a heap. You are more likely to have that happen to a commercially built and "engineered " commercial structure than in someone's do it yourself house. And, Ron and Doris, I commend you on your beautiful addition to your home. The point I am making is that it is not possible to build such a structure within areas where codes are enforced now matter how well designed and sturdily built. And if big companies ever get in the PC business, which I doubt very much, the product will be as expensive as standard building materials, again negating the promise of papercrete as an affordable way for people of limitied means to build a home.

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[papercreters] Re:phone henge

That is so cool. I am glad we don't have building codes here. I think you are no supposed to build in a flood area. And if you rent out a owner built home, you are supposed to have lived in for a year first.(but i know people who didn't) Thanks for posting it.

Joy in OK

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[papercreters] Codes gone wild

Here is a case of "Officials overstepping their Jobs:

This man is willing to live in his Phonehenge house, why should the government say different?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110531/us_yblog_thelookout/officials-say-man-must-tear-down-phonehenge-house

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RE: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Good for you Doris. It's success stories like yours that keep our dreams alive.

"There are none happy in the world but being who enjoy freely a vast horizon." Damodora

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: yakishome@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 14:59:22 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

OK thanks for all the compliments just wanted to share with those that were interested in the end results of a lot of hard work with PC and when you have a dream.
Now I'm going to go have a cup of coffee in my beautiful new PC bedroom have myself a beautiful day.

Happy Papercreting

Doris and Ron

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__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Well said Spaceman. Thanks.

"There are none happy in the world but being who enjoy freely a vast horizon." Damodora

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:14:51 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Google Ken Kern and read about a home collapsing in the night and killing the occupant.

It is possible to build "such a structure within areas where codes are enforced now" if it is well designed and sturdily built. As has been mentioned, if you have the money to hire an engineer you can have plans approved, and build under the legal umbrella. There is more than one company in the pc business that I know of. One is outside Silver City NM, the other is in west Texas. All reports are that their products are very affordable. Neither of them would meet the definition of "big business".

Codes in NM are liberal and have some allowance for DIY. For instance both adobe and rammed earth are in the code. The community of earthships near Tres Piedras is a good example of alternative building being allowed, though there was the usual politics causing unnecessary infrastructure to meet subdivision rules. There are vast areas in the SW US that have no codes enforced, land that you can buy for a few hundred dollars an acre. There are several folks on this list who have done what you say is impossible. Every day you make a choice about where and how you live. It is a lot easier to sit and imagine why things won't work than it is to go try them. Life is full of surprises and things don't always conform to your imagination.

The first known, and most strict, building code in history.

"Should a mason build a home of brick or of stone, and should that home collapse and injure or kill any occupant, the responsible mason shall be slain and his blood and bones built into the repairs of the said stone or brick building."

-Law code of Hammurabi engraved on Babylonian Stele, 1750 b.c.

spaceman

All opinions expressed or implied
are subject to change without notice
upon receipt of new information.

On 5/31/2011 7:15 AM, Donald Miller wrote:

You mention that building codes probably save lives. That is the common argument that the code people use and I find it to be very untruthful. I challenge anyone to show documented proof of a home not built to code falling over onto a neighbor's lot, collapsing in the night and killing the occupants or whatever. Houses may sag, foundations will crack and sheetrock break, but, give me a break, they just dont' collapse in a heap. You are more likely to have that happen to a commercially built and "engineered " commercial structure than in someone's do it yourself house. And, Ron and Doris, I commend you on your beautiful addition to your home. The point I am making is that it is not possible to build such a structure within areas where codes are enforced now matter how well designed and sturdily built. And if big companies ever get in the PC business, which I doubt very much, the product will be as expensive as standard building materials, again negating the promise of papercrete as an affordable way for people of limitied means to build a home.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

The first known, and most strict, building code in history.

-Law code of Hammurabi engraved on Babylonian Stele, 1750 b.c.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.

On 5/31/2011 7:15 AM, Donald Miller wrote:

You mention that building codes probably save lives. That is the common argument that the code people use and I find it to be very untruthful. I challenge anyone to show documented proof of a home not built to code falling over onto a neighbor's lot, collapsing in the night and killing the occupants or whatever. Houses may sag, foundations will crack and sheetrock break, but, give me a break, they just dont' collapse in a heap. You are more likely to have that happen to a commercially built and "engineered " commercial structure than in someone's do it yourself house. And, Ron and Doris, I commend you on your beautiful addition to your home. The point I am making is that it is not possible to build such a structure within areas where codes are enforced now matter how well designed and sturdily built. And if big companies ever get in the PC business, which I doubt very much, the product will be as expensive as standard building materials, again negating the promise of papercrete as an affordable way for people of limitied means to build a home.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Happy Papercreting

Doris and Ron

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

You mention that building codes probably save lives. That is the common argument that the code people use and I find it to be very untruthful. I challenge anyone to show documented proof of a home not built to code falling over onto a neighbor's lot, collapsing in the night and killing the occupants or whatever. Houses may sag, foundations will crack and sheetrock break, but, give me a break, they just dont' collapse in a heap. You are more likely to have that happen to a commercially built and "engineered " commercial structure than in someone's do it yourself house. And, Ron and Doris, I commend you on your beautiful addition to your home. The point I am making is that it is not possible to build such a structure within areas where codes are enforced now matter how well designed and sturdily built. And if big companies ever get in the PC business, which I doubt very much, the product will be as expensive as standard building materials, again negating the promise of papercrete as an affordable way for people of limitied means to build a home.

--- On Mon, 5/30/11, doris <yakishome@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: doris <yakishome@yahoo.com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 3:58 PM

Building codes add expense and complexity to any type of building especially innovative materials that have not been tested over time. Codes probably save lives by making it difficult to cut too many corners. Our building is not that cheap. There is a lot of cement in that paper (probably too much). I think it would hold up to a tornado better than a lot of stick homes we have seen on the news lately(all built to code). Anything new has to be "not normal" and difficult and subversive to a degree. As for the future, I think a big company will adapt papercrete to a new type of insulated concrete forms. Fully engineered, mass produced and greener than the foam they currently use. But you make a good point Donald, but I would at least scale up to dog houses. Ronthebuilder
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:
>
> For all of us ooh-ing and ahh-ing over Ron and Doris' addition, and it is quite impressive, remember that for the vast majority of us living in areas with building code enforcement, this building would never be allowed without the very expensive OK from an architect or engineering firm. And it probably wouldn't be allowed in it's present form even with that. Not without a lot of very expensive and unnecessary changes. Which defeats the purpose of Papercrete as an economical building medium in which a low cost and safeÂ home can be built by people of modest means and abilities. This is why the papercrete movement with all it's promise will never be realized and the medium will be reduced to being used for birdhouses.
>
> --- On Mon, 5/30/11, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: countryatheartok <criswells.ok@...>
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 7:46 AM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> I was just about to correct my question when I read your answer, I went
> back through the photo section and saw where Ron had laid down a 2x4
> frame and covered it with OSB. That is still pretty amazing. Velva and I
> are amazed as how well your project has turned out. We wish we were both
> retired so we would have more time to devote to our little project.
>
> Bob & Velva
> Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC
> subfloor?
>
> No there were the 4X8 forms of PC he laid first then put plastic over
> that then over that he built a frame like structure out of 2x4's then
> the sub-floor on top of that then the laminate flooring. I think there
> are some pictures in the older photo album where you can see the process
> if not let me know and I will post them.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Doris and Ron
> > >
> >
>

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Monday, May 30, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

When I was teaching trades at the local comedy college, I always emphasized to my students that when you say you have built it "to code" then you are saying you have done the worst job you can do and still get it passed. You are not bragging, you are confessing. Codes are an absolute minimum and nobody in his right mind would build that shoddily. Unfortunately "normal" buildings are built by the lowest bidder who has much incentive to make it as cheap as possible by building to the minimum standards. After all, if he is the lowest bidder then he has probably forgotten something that he will have to pay for, and make up somewhere else. It is no wonder that tornadoes and hurricanes leave piles of kindling in their wake. Then politicians get fired up and add codes requiring metal tie down straps as a band aid instead of rewriting codes to include modern engineering standards and materials.

The problem with inspectors is another ball game. They are trained only to make sure things meet minimum codes, keeping in mind that contractors have to cheat or die. We always left something obvious but minor for the inspector to find so he felt fulfilled, and didn't look much farther. If it isn't in the code then inspectors are not competent to rule on it, and therefore won't pass it unless you hire an engineer to take the blame off their shoulders. An inspector's greatest fear is a lawsuit. To make it worse, the people who write/approve/adopt the codes are influenced by industry suppliers who try to make sure the only new things in the code are things they own, definitely not something that you can do at home without buying from them. Codes don't say "make a wall that will support 1,200 pounds per running foot", they say "put a 2x4 stud every 1.3' and two 2x4 plates top and bottom, then cover with 5/8 gypsum board on both sides". That way nobody has to think, just do it by the book. Inspectors don't have to be engineers and figure out how much weight a wall will support *like they used to* but only have to look and measure that there is indeed a 2x4 every 16". Their training includes memorizing rules and interpreting tables. "You say your pc wall will support 4,800 pounds per running foot? Show me in the book. Don't bother me with math, I had trouble dividing up the lunch ticket. Even if I thought you might be right, I'm not sticking my neck out this close to retirement."

A couple of years ago we on this list tried to start the process to have papercrete written into the codes, but unfortunately that died on the vine from the inevitable personality conflicts. IMHO that is what it will take to make papercrete mainstream. If it is in the book, the inspector can walk up to your 12" thick pc wall and knock on it to hear how it rings, and approve it as a cheap, efficient building method. I invite anyone to come tap on my walls with a sledge hammer (dodge so the rebound doesn't hit your face) and see for themselves how great pc is. Not everyone can live in a place inspectors aren't interested in, so our choices are to get into the code or accept Donald's pessimism and restrict ourselves to birdhouses and garden ornaments. For myself it is pretty much moot. When the city finally decides it is economical to incorporate the rest of the county, they will probably grandfather my buildings, as is traditional with existing structures. Meanwhile I'm living phat in my birdhouse and weaving in new twigs as fast as I can.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net blog at http://Starship-Enterprises.Net/wordpress/

On 5/30/2011 4:58 PM, doris wrote:

Building codes add expense and complexity to any type of building especially innovative materials that have not been tested over time.  Codes probably save lives by making it difficult to cut too many corners.  Our building is not that cheap.  There is a lot of cement in that paper (probably too much).  I think it would hold up to a tornado better than a lot of stick homes we have seen on the news lately(all built to code).  Anything new has to be "not normal" and difficult and subversive to a degree.  As for the future, I think a big company will adapt papercrete to a new type of insulated concrete forms.  Fully engineered, mass produced and greener than the foam they currently use.  But you make a good point Donald, but I would at least scale up to dog houses.  Ronthebuilder

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:

 For all of us ooh-ing and ahh-ing over Ron and Doris' addition, and it is quite impressive, remember that for the vast majority of us living in areas with building code enforcement, this building would never be allowed without the very expensive OK from an architect or engineering firm. And it probably wouldn't be allowed in it's present form even with that. Not without a lot of very expensive and unnecessary changes. Which defeats the purpose of Papercrete as an economical building medium in which a low cost and safeÂ home can be built by people of modest means and abilities. This is why the papercrete movement with all it's promise will never be realized and the medium will be reduced to being used for birdhouses.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

There have been a few (2 that I know of) permitted papercrete homes in NM. And Mason Greenstar in Mason TX is mass producing patented papercrete blocks and building large upscale homes in their area, which has no codes. I have been told that it wouldn't be too hard to get a permit in NM using papercrete as infill. I have several objections to permits, some of them financial others philosophical.

As far as your home withstanding tornado winds, I wouldn't be surprised if it outdid just about any stick built home. As you know I am building on the windiest mesa west of the Pecos so I have designed my house so that wind will flow over and around it. I would say the weakest area of a papercrete house would be where the roof is connected. Lots of those hurricane tie downs would be needed.

"There are none happy in the world but being who enjoy freely a vast horizon." Damodora

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: yakishome@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 22:58:28 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Building codes add expense and complexity to any type of building especially innovative materials that have not been tested over time. Codes probably save lives by making it difficult to cut too many corners. Our building is not that cheap. There is a lot of cement in that paper (probably too much). I think it would hold up to a tornado better than a lot of stick homes we have seen on the news lately(all built to code). Anything new has to be "not normal" and difficult and subversive to a degree. As for the future, I think a big company will adapt papercrete to a new type of insulated concrete forms. Fully engineered, mass produced and greener than the foam they currently use. But you make a good point Donald, but I would at least scale up to dog houses. Ronthebuilder
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:
>
> For all of us ooh-ing and ahh-ing over Ron and Doris' addition, and it is quite impressive, remember that for the vast majority of us living in areas with building code enforcement, this building would never be allowed without the very expensive OK from an architect or engineering firm. And it probably wouldn't be allowed in it's present form even with that. Not without a lot of very expensive and unnecessary changes. Which defeats the purpose of Papercrete as an economical building medium in which a low cost and safeÂ home can be built by people of modest means and abilities. This is why the papercrete movement with all it's promise will never be realized and the medium will be reduced to being used for birdhouses.
>
> --- On Mon, 5/30/11, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: countryatheartok <criswells.ok@...>
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 7:46 AM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> I was just about to correct my question when I read your answer, I went
> back through the photo section and saw where Ron had laid down a 2x4
> frame and covered it with OSB. That is still pretty amazing. Velva and I
> are amazed as how well your project has turned out. We wish we were both
> retired so we would have more time to devote to our little project.
>
> Bob & Velva
> Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC
> subfloor?
>
> No there were the 4X8 forms of PC he laid first then put plastic over
> that then over that he built a frame like structure out of 2x4's then
> the sub-floor on top of that then the laminate flooring. I think there
> are some pictures in the older photo album where you can see the process
> if not let me know and I will post them.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Doris and Ron
> > >
> >
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

For all of us ooh-ing and ahh-ing over Ron and Doris' addition, and it is quite impressive, remember that for the vast majority of us living in areas with building code enforcement, this building would never be allowed without the very expensive OK from an architect or engineering firm. And it probably wouldn't be allowed in it's present form even with that. Not without a lot of very expensive and unnecessary changes. Which defeats the purpose of Papercrete as an economical building medium in which a low cost and safe home can be built by people of modest means and abilities. This is why the papercrete movement with all it's promise will never be realized and the medium will be reduced to being used for birdhouses.

--- On Mon, 5/30/11, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 7:46 AM

I was just about to correct my question when I read your answer, I went
back through the photo section and saw where Ron had laid down a 2x4
frame and covered it with OSB. That is still pretty amazing. Velva and I
are amazed as how well your project has turned out. We wish we were both
retired so we would have more time to devote to our little project.

Bob & Velva
Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC
subfloor?

No there were the 4X8 forms of PC he laid first then put plastic over
that then over that he built a frame like structure out of 2x4's then
the sub-floor on top of that then the laminate flooring. I think there
are some pictures in the older photo album where you can see the process
if not let me know and I will post them.
Hope this helps.

Doris and Ron
> >
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Yes, Bob, it is very beautiful and even more beautiful when you see it.

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:46 AM, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I was just about to correct my question when I read your answer, I went
back through the photo section and saw where Ron had laid down a 2x4
frame and covered it with OSB. That is still pretty amazing. Velva and I
are amazed as how well your project has turned out. We wish we were both
retired so we would have more time to devote to our little project.

Bob & Velva
Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC
subfloor?

No there were the 4X8 forms of PC he laid first then put plastic over
that then over that he built a frame like structure out of 2x4's then
the sub-floor on top of that then the laminate flooring. I think there
are some pictures in the older photo album where you can see the process
if not let me know and I will post them.
Hope this helps.

Doris and Ron
> >
>

--
"If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out just right."

- Sequoyah Trueblood

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

I was just about to correct my question when I read your answer, I went
back through the photo section and saw where Ron had laid down a 2x4
frame and covered it with OSB. That is still pretty amazing. Velva and I
are amazed as how well your project has turned out. We wish we were both
retired so we would have more time to devote to our little project.

Bob & Velva
Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC
subfloor?

No there were the 4X8 forms of PC he laid first then put plastic over
that then over that he built a frame like structure out of 2x4's then
the sub-floor on top of that then the laminate flooring. I think there
are some pictures in the older photo album where you can see the process
if not let me know and I will post them.
Hope this helps.

Doris and Ron
> >
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> [Ron]
>
> Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC subfloor?

No there were the 4X8 forms of PC he laid first then put plastic over that then over that he built a frame like structure out of 2x4's then the sub-floor on top of that then the laminate flooring. I think there are some pictures in the older photo album where you can see the process if not let me know and I will post them.
Hope this helps.

Doris and Ron
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] For those that don't remember, before and after

papercrete pictures93

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Ron

Question: Is Ron laying Laminate flooring directly over the PC subfloor?

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Sunday, May 29, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Ron & Doris Your Great

Hey Bob Appreciate your complement, Ron says to tell you that I do the tile work and the painting.... but... I have to have something he has thought up with the PC before I can do that don't I, so maybe we should call him Ron the builder =) and Doris the decorator.

Any way ...if you are ever in New mexico look us up and we would love to give you a tour.

Doris and Ron

--- On Sun, 5/29/11, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Ron & Doris Your Great
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 29, 2011, 8:37 PM

Fantastic job guys, I know how hard you both have worked and the results
are GREAT!

Good Look

Bob the builder

P.S.

Maybe there should be a Ron the builder! =)

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Ron & Doris Your Great

Fantastic job guys, I know how hard you both have worked and the results
are GREAT!

Good Look

Bob the builder

P.S.

Maybe there should be a Ron the builder! =)

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

I haven't found an incorrect type of paper yet, not to say there isn't
one. I have found that it will mix quicker if you separate every page and
scunch it up as you put it in the mixer, but that is far too much time
consuming effort for me.

Wayne

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Re: [papercreters] Looking for paper shredder

Yes, they work ok, but just keep in mind that the coarser the
paper/cardboard the larger the idividual fibers. Not sure if larger
fibers means stronger product but food for thought.

Wayne

> Have you tried phone books?
> Alan
>
> --- On Sun, 5/29/11, Wayne <huon@intas.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> From: Wayne <huon@intas.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Looking for paper shredder
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 29, 2011, 9:04 PM
>
>
> I have never shreded paper or cardboard before mixing. I usualy use lefty
> over catalogues from the delivery service. They arrive in stacks and I
> just through handfulls in at a time and don't be in too much of a hurry to
> get them mixed. If they soak a litle first they seem to mix easier. I
> think the end product is better when all the fibers are teased apart by
> the mixer rather than cut short.
>
> Wayne
>
>> Hi, I fairly new to papercrete. I had an older model Fellowes shredder
>> that worked great. My husband wanted a new micro cut and saw a sale
>> that
>> gave a big discount for turning in your old one. Now we have a fancy
>> micro-cut shredder that won't do newspaper and I'm having trouble
>> finding
>> one that will. Any recommendations for brands or models?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

Yeah, you must make certain that you are using the correct type of paper.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net blog at http://Starship-Enterprises.Net/wordpress/

On 5/29/2011 7:45 PM, janfloodstudios wrote:

 Very interesting, I thought catalogs were no good for papercrete?  I've got bags of shredded catlogs.  I suspect you do bigger batches than I do with a bigger mixer.  I'm going to try and just wad up some sheets and set them to soak to night.  Thanks.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

Yes, Alan, I've contacted most everyplace that sells them. It's only the older strip shredders that work and not all those. The ones for sale in town will not take newsprint. If the wadded up sheets will mix easily enough I won't worry about a shredder for now.

Thanks.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Alan <rustaholic777@...> wrote:
>
> Have you tried phone books?
> Alan
>
>

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[papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

Very interesting, I thought catalogs were no good for papercrete? I've got bags of shredded catlogs. I suspect you do bigger batches than I do with a bigger mixer. I'm going to try and just wad up some sheets and set them to soak to night. Thanks.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <huon@...> wrote:
>
> I have never shreded paper or cardboard before mixing. I usualy use lefty
> over catalogues from the delivery service. They arrive in stacks and I
> just through handfulls in at a time and don't be in too much of a hurry to
> get them mixed. If they soak a litle first they seem to mix easier. I
> think the end product is better when all the fibers are teased apart by
> the mixer rather than cut short.
>

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Re: [papercreters] Looking for paper shredder

Have you tried phone books?

Alan

--- On Sun, 5/29/11, Wayne <huon@intas.net.au> wrote:

From: Wayne <huon@intas.net.au>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Looking for paper shredder
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 29, 2011, 9:04 PM

I have never shreded paper or cardboard before mixing. I usualy use lefty
over catalogues from the delivery service. They arrive in stacks and I
just through handfulls in at a time and don't be in too much of a hurry to
get them mixed. If they soak a litle first they seem to mix easier. I
think the end product is better when all the fibers are teased apart by
the mixer rather than cut short.

Wayne

> Hi, I fairly new to papercrete. I had an older model Fellowes shredder
> that worked great. My husband wanted a new micro cut and saw a sale that
> gave a big discount for turning in your old one. Now we have a fancy
> micro-cut shredder that won't do newspaper and I'm having trouble finding
> one that will. Any recommendations for brands or models?
>
> Thanks.
>
>

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__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Papercreters

Tuesday, May 31, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

[papercreters] Re:phone henge

[papercreters] Codes gone wild

RE: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

RE: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Monday, May 30, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

RE: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Re: [papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

[papercreters] Re: Floor Question for Ron and Doris

[papercreters] For those that don't remember, before and after

[papercreters] Floor Question for Ron and Doris

Sunday, May 29, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Ron & Doris Your Great

[papercreters] Ron & Doris Your Great

Re: [papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

Re: [papercreters] Looking for paper shredder

Re: [papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

[papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

[papercreters] Re: Looking for paper shredder

Re: [papercreters] Looking for paper shredder

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