I admit I'm with Curtis on this one.
Think of the paper fibers in papercrete as better stronger bubbles in
foamed concrete. Paper fibers don't pop, don't need special
handling, and won't drain away.
Trying to foam papercrete is like trying have balloons at a porcupine
Twister party. It looks neat at first, but after a while there's
just little bits of trash everywhere and somebody has to clean up a
very sticky mess.
JMHO
If someone makes it work I'd sure like to hear about it and see
pictures. (testing would be good too)
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@...>
wrote:
>
> Two issues with this. First is the amount of soap one needs to use
to get good foam. Then the settling/draining issue of the slurry. The
foam tends to follow the water. I tried increasing the foaming using
glycerin. I did not have much luck with it and increased the cost of
the material. You may get a 5 gallon bucket of material to do what
you want, but when you up-size it it goes to pot. The aerators you
are thinking about are foam generators. They are commonly used to
foam AFFF fire fighting foam. Hope you had better luck with it than
I did and who knows, you may find the trick.
>
> mountainfair <yahooposting@...>
wrote: Speaking of insulation value,
has anyone here tried foaming their
> papercrete?
>
> I have read about using mixers that aerate the mix as well as
adding
> dish soap to the mix to foam it in order to achieve higher R
values.
>
> One site mentioned using an additive to speed the setting time of
the
> concrete so that it would set before the bubbles settled out.
>
> Anyone experimenting with this?
>
> -Eli
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@>
wrote:
> >
> > It's time to talk about papercrete's counter-intuitiveness again.
> >
> > I've tested relative R-Value with a homemade calorimeter.
> > I described the apparatus and testing method in this previous
post:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/message/45
> >
> > My results indicated that compressing the slurry into the form
> > INCREASED the insulating properties. The more a sample was
> > compressed, the higher the R-Value. My most compressed sample
was
> > compressed by driving a front tire of pickup truck wheel on top
of
> > the form. I estimate it was greater than 400 PSI compression.
> >
> > While I think it may be possible to compress wet uncured
papercrete
> > so much that it will start to lose R-Value, I don't think it is
> > PRACTIAL to overcompress it in a DIY environment. My wild
> > undocumented guess is that one would need to compress the wet
slurry
> > to thousands of PSI to crush the paper fibers enough to start
> > decreasing insulation properties.
> >
> > My sample size in these tests is small and I certainly haven't
tested
> > every possible combination. It takes time and attention to
detail to
> > run a calorimeter test and get good data. Calorimeters are
fiddly to
> > use in the best circumstances.
> >
> > My theory to explain this phenomenon is that the best insulation
is
> > achieved by trapping air INSIDE the paper fibers. Loosly
hindering
> > air flow BETWEEN fibers is only moderately effective. I think
> > compressing the slurry tends to push the fibers closer together
which
> > significantly reduces the permeability of the final product to
air
> > infiltration. I also theorize that micro convection currents
are
> > greatly diminished by the denser fibers.
> >
> > Keep in mind that almost all papercrete with significant paper
> > content will have higher insulation value than fiberglass
batts.
> > Also remember that cellulose insulation manufacturers
list "packed"
> > cellulose insulation to have a higher R-Value than "loose"
> > cellulose.
> >
> > Another point to remember is that the higher the mineral content
of
> > papercrete the lower the insulating value will be. A balance
between
> > strength, weight, and insulation is appropriate. Different
recipes
> > of papercrete for different applications make sense.
> >
> > The idea that compressing insulation hinders performance applies
> > primarily to fiberglass batts. Fiberglass fibers are solid
glass
> > rods. Compressing the batts pushes out all the air.
Compressing
> > cellulose only pushes out the loose air. The trapped air inside
the
> > paper fibers remains.
> >
> > I estimate that a mix ratio of 1:2:1 paper, portand, sand, can
reach
> > R4 with very tight slurry compression. I haven't run any
calibrated
> > tests to determine if this is correct. I'm very confident that
a mix
> > ratio of 1:1:1, paper, portland, sand will go well above R4 with
> > slurry compression. Perhaps as high as R5. Again, I haven't
done
> > any calibrated tests to prove it.
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mdumiller" <mdmiller1@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I haven't tested this theory, but I think the amount of water
> > > reabsorption of cured papercrete is related to the amount of
> > original
> > > water in the mix as poured/used. As the water evaporates from
> > curing
> > > PC, creating airspace voids in the pC, rewetting will tend to
> > permit
> > > water back into these itsy spaces. The fibers are probably
encased
> > > in portland and don't absorb much, which is why a block that
is
> > > rewetted dries so quickly.
> > >
> > > I'm guessing that if you took two identical just-poured pc
blocks
> > and
> > > squeezed all the water out of one of them and let them both
dry,
> > the
> > > one with the water squeezed out is smaller and of higher
density
> > and
> > > probably won't absorb as much water. It contains less air
space,
> > > even though they both contain the same amount of paper and
other
> > > material.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, if you don't put in enough portland to coat
the
> > > fiber, then the paper fibers themselves will saturate and
become
> > part
> > > of the equation, and in this case, I think you're right.
> > >
> > > In situations where you expect to have PC exposed to a lot of
> > > moisture, based on this theory, it would be wise to compress
the
> > > blocks while wet to eliminate water. Obviously this could
impact
> > the
> > > insulative properties of the finished product. And this is
just a
> > > theory, so don't do anything based on this untested crazy idea.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
>
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