Papercreters: October 2009

Friday, October 30, 2009

RE: [papercreters] Stryofoam Beads Site

Thanks, that stuff is kind of expensive. Charmaine knows of a guy (I have that info somewhere) who gets the styrofoam for nothing. It's the waste from something else.

Sincerely, Judith

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To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:20:22 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Stryofoam Beads Site

http://pillowpolyfill.com/

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[papercreters] Stryofoam Beads Site

http://pillowpolyfill.com/

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Re: [papercreters] Wake up!

Hi Judith, no I don't have a source for the beads... Sorry!!!

The man up here rigged up a wood chipper to chop up the foam which turned back into the small beads. He built a box around the chipper, had a huge plastic bag (in the box) to catch the beads ( don't know where he found the bags either) he still had a mess. He used all scrap foam that was given to him or he just found in dumpsters. He mixed it with sand cement and PC..

I know what you mean about the last bit being the hardest on the walls, we got the North East corner filled in before it turned off bad, it was a challenge to get it in the tight spots.

You probabley needed that rest with all you had gotten done, the cold you had was natures way of saying to slow down a little : )

Wish I could be more help.

Doris

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:

Doris, have you found a source for the styrofoam beads? I had been thinking of using them too. I know what you mean about the rain and snow. Same here except I don't think we got as much snow. I have had a sever cold for a week now so welcomed the weather as an excuse to stay close to the wood stove. My walls are just about up all the way. The last few inches are the hardest. The plan is to have them done by the end of the weekend.

Keep up the good work and thanks for all the input to the group.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

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To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: dorisburton03@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:26:32 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Wake up!

Great sight Bob, We were going to put the styro-beads in the papercrete for the bedroom but couldn't find a good way to keep them contained and didn't want them all over our property. A friend of ours here in Mountainair built full walls like this and then stood them up right for his round house.

I will defiantly keep this recipe for other sculptures we want to do around the house.

We have been grounded from working on our bedroom for over a week due to snow and rain, so at this point I am having doubt about getting to the top by December : (

Doris

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Here is a guy doing something in his retirement years we all could learn to do with our papercrete, he doesn't use papercrete but uses styro beads and fiber. Check out his home page and then look at his 1 thru 6 instructional video's and also a 3 part on how to add excitement to his pond.
http://donaldperry.spaces.live.com/ look at video's 1-6 here
http://www.youtube.com/user/dperry428#p/a/u/2/IpVDPxT1xH4 look at the 1-3 sections here.
B T B

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RE: [papercreters] Wake up!

Doris, have you found a source for the styrofoam beads? I had been thinking of using them too. I know what you mean about the rain and snow. Same here except I don't think we got as much snow. I have had a sever cold for a week now so welcomed the weather as an excuse to stay close to the wood stove. My walls are just about up all the way. The last few inches are the hardest. The plan is to have them done by the end of the weekend.

Keep up the good work and thanks for all the input to the group.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: dorisburton03@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:26:32 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Wake up!

Great sight Bob, We were going to put the styro-beads in the papercrete for the bedroom but couldn't find a good way to keep them contained and didn't want them all over our property. A friend of ours here in Mountainair built full walls like this and then stood them up right for his round house.

I will defiantly keep this recipe for other sculptures we want to do around the house.

We have been grounded from working on our bedroom for over a week due to snow and rain, so at this point I am having doubt about getting to the top by December : (

Doris

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Here is a guy doing something in his retirement years we all could learn to do with our papercrete, he doesn't use papercrete but uses styro beads and fiber. Check out his home page and then look at his 1 thru 6 instructional video's and also a 3 part on how to add excitement to his pond.
http://donaldperry.spaces.live.com/ look at video's 1-6 here
http://www.youtube.com/user/dperry428#p/a/u/2/IpVDPxT1xH4 look at the 1-3 sections here.
B T B

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__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Wake up!

I will defiantly keep this recipe for other sculptures we want to do around the house.

We have been grounded from working on our bedroom for over a week due to snow and rain, so at this point I am having doubt about getting to the top by December : (

Doris

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:00 AM, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Here is a guy doing something in his retirement years we all could learn to do with our papercrete, he doesn't use papercrete but uses styro beads and fiber. Check out his home page and then look at his 1 thru 6 instructional video's and also a 3 part on how to add excitement to his pond.

http://donaldperry.spaces.live.com/ look at video's 1-6 here

http://www.youtube.com/user/dperry428#p/a/u/2/IpVDPxT1xH4 look at the 1-3 sections here.

B T B

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Wake up!

Here is a guy doing something in his retirement years we all could learn to do with our papercrete, he doesn't use papercrete but uses styro beads and fiber. Check out his home page and then look at his 1 thru 6 instructional video's and also a 3 part on how to add excitement to his pond.

http://donaldperry.spaces.live.com/ look at video's 1-6 here

http://www.youtube.com/user/dperry428#p/a/u/2/IpVDPxT1xH4 look at the 1-3 sections here.

B T B

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Tuesday, October 27, 2009

[papercreters] Press Idea first

Maybe you should see how it works first http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ha3CJo9gA&feature=related

B T B

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[papercreters] Press Idea

This guy has built a press to make fuel blocks, it could be expanded to make papercrete blocks, it works a lot like my press, but mine is air operated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muXpTgHR0Gc&NR=1

B T B

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[papercreters] Re: Paper shredder

Any "landscaping" services in your neck o' the woods? Call em up, ask em if you can hire "a couple hours of use" of one of their tow-behind chippers. Arrange to meet one of their crews at a place convenient for them & they'll probably do it for next to nothin if you get the right person. Leave your place with a trailer-load o cardboard (bundles right?), return with a bunch o trashbags full o chipped 'board. Figure out a way before you go to "capture" the chipped 'board. Perhaps a huge burlap sack...or maybe a "net" sack to strap over the outlet of the chipper?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> Yesterday I tried using the cardboard unsoaked. It took longer to mulch and I ended up with some globs in the final mix. I'm wondering if it would be worth shredding the cardboard and what type of shredder I would use. Anyone have any suggestions for me?
>
> I went out there yesterday hoping to get a lot done since I hadn't been out there all week. But I have a horrendous head cold and can't get my act together so just did one load with the help of some friends. I hope this week will be better and we'll finally get the walls done. I'll keep you posted.
>
> Sincerely, Judith
>
> Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
>
>
> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
>

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Sunday, October 25, 2009

[papercreters] Paper shredder

Yesterday I tried using the cardboard unsoaked. It took longer to mulch and I ended up with some globs in the final mix. I'm wondering if it would be worth shredding the cardboard and what type of shredder I would use. Anyone have any suggestions for me?

I went out there yesterday hoping to get a lot done since I hadn't been out there all week. But I have a horrendous head cold and can't get my act together so just did one load with the help of some friends. I hope this week will be better and we'll finally get the walls done. I'll keep you posted.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

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RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

I haven't quite decided yet. There are several ways to go. Probably put a sealer of boiled linseed oil. I'll certainly do some research before I do anything.

Sincerely, Judith

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To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: perryway@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:17:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

Judith, if you were to do either, how would you finish the floor? I'm thinking there has to be some kind of surface to it that will keep the dirt from soiling anything that touches it. But by putting a surface to it, then it might remove the breathability, no?

Perry

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:28 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:

At this point I'm planning on doing an earthen floor, either poured adobe or rammed earth.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

From: texasweldinginspector@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:04:45 -0700
Subject: RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
Judith, I was wondering what you were going to do for a floor? I know you still have the roof togo first, but was just curious. Smile and have a great day. PAT

--- On Wed, 10/21/09, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
To: "papercreters papercreters" <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 7:23 PM
You're so right about doing a load a day. Today it's cold and rainy. Tomorrow is another day.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo. com/papercreteby judith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:03:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
I'm about to get off my donkey and go work. Nice cool day today. You should do the same : ) A load a day keeps Jack Frost away.

If your walls are standing now while still spongy, think how strong they are going to be when they dry and get hard, once you quit dumping water on them.

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
I appreciate your saying that papercrete will be spongy until it hardens completely. The first course we poured, the one with the paint in it, is still spongy after a month. But it was covered with a sheet of plywood on the door sills and the walls get wet every time I add another course. So I'm just not going to worry any more about the sponginess of the underlying layers. The walls look great. I love the texture. Wish I could get myself in gear and just go out there and finish them.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo. com/papercreteby judith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:39:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
You are doing it just right, Judith. With concrete you want to keep the water to the minimum amount that lets you mix. With papercrete you need lots of water to pulp and most of the water goes away rapidly when you put it into molds or forms, what's left is plenty to hydrate the cement. For consistent results you should try to keep the paper/cement ratio the same by weighing/measuring, but in reality a pretty wide variation still works. The process with papercrete is entirely different from concrete - it will stay spongy until it dries completely and then it is hard, sounds like wood when you knock on it. If you re-wet it, it gets spongy again and loses compressive strength until it dries out. It is not brittle like concrete. Freezing while wet does not seem to have any adverse effects. If you hit dry pc with a sledgehammer you better watch out or the hammer will bounce back and hit you in the face. Breaking up leftovers to go into a mixer is a lot of work, a lot more than breaking urbanite.

Papercrete is a good use of waste paper with a minimum amount of cement. If you want concrete with cellulose fiber reinforcing then that's fine, but you can get by with a lot less cement and still get a very good material that is a lot better for the environment than concrete.

I'm done beating that horse for a while, need to go outside and remove the rear end from a parts truck to make another pc mixer.

spaceman

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
Another point not related to the database, trying to mix papercrete like the concrete guys do it just won't work. Most people with concrete backgrounds choke on the amount of water used in mixing and say it'll never work. Fact is that most of the water drains away leaving the cement in place. If your papercrete gets hard enough to knock on after just a couple of hours, you are using way too much cement. Papercrete isn't concrete and goes through a completely different curing process.

I have been mixing papercrete for a few years now and have gotten my formula to where I like it. Here's the thing though. I have never been sure of the right amount of water to use. Some people say too much water will make it weak but my experience has been that a wetter mix works better. It seems to be more uniform (the ingredients can really get mixed together) and the resulting blocks are very strong. I use 1/2 sack of portland in the 200 gallon mixer. The mix is about the consistency of oatmeal. If it is too dry it is hard to get out of the mixer. If it is too wet I don't really have a problem with it. The water leaches out and the blocks come out fine. Am I right about this or is it my imagination? And now that I'm slip forming I like the idea of the water from the upper courses leaching into the lower ones and letting them cure more slowly.

The blocks are not hard enough to knock on after a couple of hours but they are after they have cured completely. I am now using up a lot of old blocks, some of them the first I made. They had a lot of cement in them, are very heavy and impossible to cut with a saw. My reason for using papercrete is the light weight of the finished product. I need something I can lift and maneuver into place without help. I see no advantage in using more cement or in limiting the anount of water. My existing building has been standing for 3 years and is doing just fine.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo. com/papercreteby judith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:48:00 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
Got into the entry screen. What we need is a list of standard material to pick from and indicate quantities so that it can be cross referenced and searched by material.

The only accurate way to measure the ingredients is by weight (yes water comes in gallons, but each gallon weighs a specific amount). Dry paper gets a lot heavier when you add water to it. When draining, the water loss varies depending on what you are draining on, humidity, wind, temperature, etc. To say dump it on the ground and then use it the next morning, there is no way you can be accurate. That's OK as a general guideline and sure, it works, but for any kind of code acceptance you have to have accurate measurements. A certified testing lab won't accept gallons of semi wet pulp as a quantity.

There's nothing wrong with doing it the way Ron & Doris, and Judith, are doing it. That works great for a one-off project. If we want standard formulas to yield consistent results then we will have to use standard measurements and standard tests.

Another point not related to the database, trying to mix papercrete like the concrete guys do it just won't work. Most people with concrete backgrounds choke on the amount of water used in mixing and say it'll never work. Fact is that most of the water drains away leaving the cement in place. If your papercrete gets hard enough to knock on after just a couple of hours, you are using way too much cement. Papercrete isn't concrete and goes through a completely different curing process.

spaceman

ClarkG wrote:
Hi

I have a phone list in mysql and a few other test pages at this free web hosting site. No one ever went to them but me.

After posting this new database here at this group the traffic spiked and the site was down for a couple of hours while their admin check it out to see what was up.


It back on line now.
   

http://cgetty. webatu.com/ pc

ID  paper
password crete

Clark



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Saturday, October 24, 2009

Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

Perry

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 2:28 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:

At this point I'm planning on doing an earthen floor, either poured adobe or rammed earth.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

From: texasweldinginspector@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:04:45 -0700
Subject: RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
Judith, I was wondering what you were going to do for a floor? I know you still have the roof togo first, but was just curious. Smile and have a great day. PAT

--- On Wed, 10/21/09, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
To: "papercreters papercreters" <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 7:23 PM
You're so right about doing a load a day. Today it's cold and rainy. Tomorrow is another day.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo. com/papercreteby judith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:03:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
I'm about to get off my donkey and go work. Nice cool day today. You should do the same : ) A load a day keeps Jack Frost away.

If your walls are standing now while still spongy, think how strong they are going to be when they dry and get hard, once you quit dumping water on them.

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
I appreciate your saying that papercrete will be spongy until it hardens completely. The first course we poured, the one with the paint in it, is still spongy after a month. But it was covered with a sheet of plywood on the door sills and the walls get wet every time I add another course. So I'm just not going to worry any more about the sponginess of the underlying layers. The walls look great. I love the texture. Wish I could get myself in gear and just go out there and finish them.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo. com/papercreteby judith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:39:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
You are doing it just right, Judith. With concrete you want to keep the water to the minimum amount that lets you mix. With papercrete you need lots of water to pulp and most of the water goes away rapidly when you put it into molds or forms, what's left is plenty to hydrate the cement. For consistent results you should try to keep the paper/cement ratio the same by weighing/measuring, but in reality a pretty wide variation still works. The process with papercrete is entirely different from concrete - it will stay spongy until it dries completely and then it is hard, sounds like wood when you knock on it. If you re-wet it, it gets spongy again and loses compressive strength until it dries out. It is not brittle like concrete. Freezing while wet does not seem to have any adverse effects. If you hit dry pc with a sledgehammer you better watch out or the hammer will bounce back and hit you in the face. Breaking up leftovers to go into a mixer is a lot of work, a lot more than breaking urbanite.

Papercrete is a good use of waste paper with a minimum amount of cement. If you want concrete with cellulose fiber reinforcing then that's fine, but you can get by with a lot less cement and still get a very good material that is a lot better for the environment than concrete.

I'm done beating that horse for a while, need to go outside and remove the rear end from a parts truck to make another pc mixer.

spaceman

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
Another point not related to the database, trying to mix papercrete like the concrete guys do it just won't work. Most people with concrete backgrounds choke on the amount of water used in mixing and say it'll never work. Fact is that most of the water drains away leaving the cement in place. If your papercrete gets hard enough to knock on after just a couple of hours, you are using way too much cement. Papercrete isn't concrete and goes through a completely different curing process.

I have been mixing papercrete for a few years now and have gotten my formula to where I like it. Here's the thing though. I have never been sure of the right amount of water to use. Some people say too much water will make it weak but my experience has been that a wetter mix works better. It seems to be more uniform (the ingredients can really get mixed together) and the resulting blocks are very strong. I use 1/2 sack of portland in the 200 gallon mixer. The mix is about the consistency of oatmeal. If it is too dry it is hard to get out of the mixer. If it is too wet I don't really have a problem with it. The water leaches out and the blocks come out fine. Am I right about this or is it my imagination? And now that I'm slip forming I like the idea of the water from the upper courses leaching into the lower ones and letting them cure more slowly.

The blocks are not hard enough to knock on after a couple of hours but they are after they have cured completely. I am now using up a lot of old blocks, some of them the first I made. They had a lot of cement in them, are very heavy and impossible to cut with a saw. My reason for using papercrete is the light weight of the finished product. I need something I can lift and maneuver into place without help. I see no advantage in using more cement or in limiting the anount of water. My existing building has been standing for 3 years and is doing just fine.

Sincerely, Judith

Check out my new Squidoo Lens at http://www.squidoo. com/papercreteby judith

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:48:00 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
Got into the entry screen. What we need is a list of standard material to pick from and indicate quantities so that it can be cross referenced and searched by material.

The only accurate way to measure the ingredients is by weight (yes water comes in gallons, but each gallon weighs a specific amount). Dry paper gets a lot heavier when you add water to it. When draining, the water loss varies depending on what you are draining on, humidity, wind, temperature, etc. To say dump it on the ground and then use it the next morning, there is no way you can be accurate. That's OK as a general guideline and sure, it works, but for any kind of code acceptance you have to have accurate measurements. A certified testing lab won't accept gallons of semi wet pulp as a quantity.

There's nothing wrong with doing it the way Ron & Doris, and Judith, are doing it. That works great for a one-off project. If we want standard formulas to yield consistent results then we will have to use standard measurements and standard tests.

Another point not related to the database, trying to mix papercrete like the concrete guys do it just won't work. Most people with concrete backgrounds choke on the amount of water used in mixing and say it'll never work. Fact is that most of the water drains away leaving the cement in place. If your papercrete gets hard enough to knock on after just a couple of hours, you are using way too much cement. Papercrete isn't concrete and goes through a completely different curing process.

spaceman

ClarkG wrote:
Hi

I have a phone list in mysql and a few other test pages at this free web hosting site. No one ever went to them but me.

After posting this new database here at this group the traffic spiked and the site was down for a couple of hours while their admin check it out to see what was up.
 
It back on line now.
   

http://cgetty. webatu.com/ pc

ID  paper
password crete

Clark



------------ --------- --------- ------
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/papercrete rs/
 
<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change
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[papercreters] Obtaining paper

Hi ~ First post here, I've been lurking for a few years and learning everything I can. I used to work at a detention center (county jail) and they had an enormous amount of shredded paper thrown out every week. You might try there or city/county offices. I get mine to experiment with from the Dr's office I work at. Hope this helps ~ Peace ~ Denise

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[papercreters] Man Hours for Reinforced Concrete works

Fast and easy way to obtain the estimate man hours for Reinforced Concrete works

Man Hours

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RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

At this point I'm planning on doing an earthen floor, either poured adobe or rammed earth.

Sincerely, Judith

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To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: texasweldinginspector@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:04:45 -0700
Subject: RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

Judith, I was wondering what you were going to do for a floor? I know you still have the roof togo first, but was just curious. Smile and have a great day. PAT

--- On Wed, 10/21/09, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
To: "papercreters papercreters" <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 7:23 PM
You're so right about doing a load a day. Today it's cold and rainy. Tomorrow is another day.

Sincerely, Judith

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To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:03:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
I'm about to get off my donkey and go work. Nice cool day today. You should do the same : ) A load a day keeps Jack Frost away.

If your walls are standing now while still spongy, think how strong they are going to be when they dry and get hard, once you quit dumping water on them.

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
I appreciate your saying that papercrete will be spongy until it hardens completely. The first course we poured, the one with the paint in it, is still spongy after a month. But it was covered with a sheet of plywood on the door sills and the walls get wet every time I add another course. So I'm just not going to worry any more about the sponginess of the underlying layers. The walls look great. I love the texture. Wish I could get myself in gear and just go out there and finish them.

Sincerely, Judith

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To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:39:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
You are doing it just right, Judith. With concrete you want to keep the water to the minimum amount that lets you mix. With papercrete you need lots of water to pulp and most of the water goes away rapidly when you put it into molds or forms, what's left is plenty to hydrate the cement. For consistent results you should try to keep the paper/cement ratio the same by weighing/measuring, but in reality a pretty wide variation still works. The process with papercrete is entirely different from concrete - it will stay spongy until it dries completely and then it is hard, sounds like wood when you knock on it. If you re-wet it, it gets spongy again and loses compressive strength until it dries out. It is not brittle like concrete. Freezing while wet does not seem to have any adverse effects. If you hit dry pc with a sledgehammer you better watch out or the hammer will bounce back and hit you in the face. Breaking up leftovers to go into a mixer is a lot of work, a lot more than breaking urbanite.

Papercrete is a good use of waste paper with a minimum amount of cement. If you want concrete with cellulose fiber reinforcing then that's fine, but you can get by with a lot less cement and still get a very good material that is a lot better for the environment than concrete.

I'm done beating that horse for a while, need to go outside and remove the rear end from a parts truck to make another pc mixer.

spaceman

JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:
Another point not related to the database, trying to mix papercrete like the concrete guys do it just won't work. Most people with concrete backgrounds choke on the amount of water used in mixing and say it'll never work. Fact is that most of the water drains away leaving the cement in place. If your papercrete gets hard enough to knock on after just a couple of hours, you are using way too much cement. Papercrete isn't concrete and goes through a completely different curing process.

I have been mixing papercrete for a few years now and have gotten my formula to where I like it. Here's the thing though. I have never been sure of the right amount of water to use. Some people say too much water will make it weak but my experience has been that a wetter mix works better. It seems to be more uniform (the ingredients can really get mixed together) and the resulting blocks are very strong. I use 1/2 sack of portland in the 200 gallon mixer. The mix is about the consistency of oatmeal. If it is too dry it is hard to get out of the mixer. If it is too wet I don't really have a problem with it. The water leaches out and the blocks come out fine. Am I right about this or is it my imagination? And now that I'm slip forming I like the idea of the water from the upper courses leaching into the lower ones and letting them cure more slowly.

The blocks are not hard enough to knock on after a couple of hours but they are after they have cured completely. I am now using up a lot of old blocks, some of them the first I made. They had a lot of cement in them, are very heavy and impossible to cut with a saw. My reason for using papercrete is the light weight of the finished product. I need something I can lift and maneuver into place without help. I see no advantage in using more cement or in limiting the anount of water. My existing building has been standing for 3 years and is doing just fine.

Sincerely, Judith

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To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: Spaceman@starship- enterprises. net
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:48:00 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database
Got into the entry screen. What we need is a list of standard material to pick from and indicate quantities so that it can be cross referenced and searched by material.

The only accurate way to measure the ingredients is by weight (yes water comes in gallons, but each gallon weighs a specific amount). Dry paper gets a lot heavier when you add water to it. When draining, the water loss varies depending on what you are draining on, humidity, wind, temperature, etc. To say dump it on the ground and then use it the next morning, there is no way you can be accurate. That's OK as a general guideline and sure, it works, but for any kind of code acceptance you have to have accurate measurements. A certified testing lab won't accept gallons of semi wet pulp as a quantity.

There's nothing wrong with doing it the way Ron & Doris, and Judith, are doing it. That works great for a one-off project. If we want standard formulas to yield consistent results then we will have to use standard measurements and standard tests.

Another point not related to the database, trying to mix papercrete like the concrete guys do it just won't work. Most people with concrete backgrounds choke on the amount of water used in mixing and say it'll never work. Fact is that most of the water drains away leaving the cement in place. If your papercrete gets hard enough to knock on after just a couple of hours, you are using way too much cement. Papercrete isn't concrete and goes through a completely different curing process.

spaceman

ClarkG wrote:
Hi

I have a phone list in mysql and a few other test pages at this free web hosting site. No one ever went to them but me.

After posting this new database here at this group the traffic spiked and the site was down for a couple of hours while their admin check it out to see what was up.

It back on line now.
   

http://cgetty. webatu.com/ pc

ID  paper
password crete

Clark



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Papercreters

Friday, October 30, 2009

RE: [papercreters] Stryofoam Beads Site

[papercreters] Stryofoam Beads Site

Re: [papercreters] Wake up!

RE: [papercreters] Wake up!

Re: [papercreters] Wake up!

[papercreters] Wake up!

Tuesday, October 27, 2009

[papercreters] Press Idea first

[papercreters] Press Idea

[papercreters] Re: Paper shredder

Sunday, October 25, 2009

[papercreters] Paper shredder

RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

Saturday, October 24, 2009

Re: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

[papercreters] Obtaining paper

[papercreters] Man Hours for Reinforced Concrete works

RE: Water in mix formula Was RE: [papercreters] Re: Ron & Doris Papercrete Formula/ database

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