Papercreters: October 2012

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

[papercreters] Videos with Mixers- papercrete info

Posted by:

"Alan" rustaholic777

Where can we get a copy of that video?
Alan in Michigan

HI Alan.. During the mid 2000's many DIYers bought these videos... there were 3 prime ones available. Here is the info on 2

I have publishing rights, also, to reproduce Mike's Fibercerete as video or DVD format if I can find the master copy. (misplaced when I sold the bookstore..sigh)

BUT THE SCISSOR MIXER IS SHOWN IN ANOTHER VIDEO-- listed below. I will find the maker and see if it is available!! That would be useful.

it doesn't matter if DVD, the info is the important part.

Introduction to Fibercrete with Mike McCain
90+ minutes of complete information by the inventor himself! How to make and
mix papercrete, the barrel mixer construction details, and shows many simple wood
forms for blocks and bricks; then pouring and pumping slurry, plus structures he
built, tips, and a burn test.
Papercrete plasters, rooﬁng, panels, laying up a wall, and lots more. There is
nothing like seeing Mike make this stuff to really understand the potential of
papercrete mixes for ultra low cost building. Mike has an easy, comfortable way of
showing ﬁber/papercrete to its best advantage; he made this video a couple years
ago and never got around to promoting it! It shows everything you need to know
about papercrete/ﬁber mixes but not the newest scissor mixer. Recommended as the
best video to begin with. #9015...$30.00

Papercrete-City of the Sun (Build-A-Thon)
More than 60 minutes of building techniques, philosophy and on site visits, shows
how papercrete was used to build several homes.
Interviews with Mike McCain; see his latest Scissor-blade mixer in action. Mixer
shown in photo) , plus Danish eco-builder Max Jensen and Sean Sands discuss their
application, and life philosophy, on building at such low cost. Other builders are
interviewed, and their homes are shown. Much discussion on trial and error with
materials such as sealers, waterproofers, and methods too. #1081...$30.

--
Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder

Trying to make a wooden pulley when there are readily available and relatively cheap alternatives such as heavy duty cast iron ones is OK if one is into experimenting and not necessarily concerned with getting some PC mixed. I think by Spaceman's posts on the subject he wants to get some PC mixed and made into dome pieces before the weather gets too cold. Trying to reinvent the wheel doesn't accomplish that.

As far as building a 50 gallon pc mixer whith a dc hobby motor, cardboard pulley and rubber band drive belt I'd have to say that's a pretty incredulous concept that I personally don't think would even have a remote chance of working. The wooden gears and pulleys of the old water wheel powered grist mills and saw mills you speak of were many times bigger than any PC mixer any of is going to build. They were huge. While we're on the subject, wooden wagon wheels carried our pioneer forefathers across many miles of plains and deserts and the early automobiles used wooden spoke wheels. I doubt if anyone would want to use them for a trailer towed at highway speeds or a modern car. Just because they could be made to work doesn't mean that they would be the best option.

Spacemans McCain scissor mixer project in my humble estimation only lacks the power and the ridgidity of the structure to work. The number of chopping blades and the length and spacing of same will probably need some tweaking but with enough power and torque it will work. The only issue I have with this design, and why I have not made one, is that getting the mix out will be difficult. I make a stiff mix out of cardboard but perhaps a mix made of paper with more water would not be a problem. Also, most of the electric motor mixers I have read about have had problems with lack of power and reliability and after looking at pictures of people tearing newspaper into strips so the mixer can handle the mixing task does not seem like a good way to go. I am 68 years old and I don't want to spend any more time experimenting with mixers and mixer concepts when the vast majority of the people on this forum and others online who have actually built anything of substance have used a version of the McCain tow mixer. I need to make 2000 more 16X16X6 inch blocks and a mixer that will do the job faster and with fewer problems is what I prefer to work with. I don't want to spend any time reinventing the wheel.

--- On Wed, 10/31/12, JayH <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: JayH <slurryguy@yahoo.com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012, 3:32 AM

Do you have any idea how much torque and brute power is required to chop even 50 gallons of paper pulp?

Yup.

A wooden pulley would be no match for Spaceman's creation.

Not necessarily.

There are a variety of factors that need to be considered, but if they are all taken into appropriate account wooden pulleys can designed and built for most any situation. Designed and constructed correctly, the weak link in a pulley system will be the belt.

I could chop 50 gallons of paper pulp using a DC Hobby Motor and a cardboard pulley driving a rubber band belt. It might take over a month to chop all 50 gallons, but I could easily design such a tiny little toy blender that could eventually get the job done.

Don't take my humorously extreme example as something someone should expect to be practical. It's not, obviously. My point is that there are multiple ways to accomplish a task. Large torque and power become necessary if the desire is to churn up massive quantities of mix in a rapid time frame, especially if the mix is a thick and viscous one.

Build a wooden pulley out of a very dense hardwood, especially if it is laminated for strength and you'd be amazed at how strong and durable it can be. Old waterwheel powered grist mills and saw mills had wooden gears and pulleys that transmitted a lot more power than Spaceman is going to get out of that motor. Some of those are still operating after over a 100 years of service.

I think Spaceman is onto an interesting design, and it is fun to watch him develop it.

For example, Spaceman could drastically reduce the torque and power requirements for this scissor mixer if he altered his blade design. If the spinning blades were more streamline, like knife blades, they would not not be nearly the load that he is currently encountering. It would chop trough the paper much easier requiring far less torque and power. The sacrifice would be that it wouldn't stir the mix as vigorously. As this mixer is currently configured it looks a lot more like a mortar mixer than a chopper. Those big angle iron blades look more designed for throwing stuff around than for chopping it up. Of course, that may be exactly what Spaceman is looking to achieve, if so, he's definitely on the right track.

That's something that is rather unique in a papercrete mixer compared concrete or mortar mixers. It's a combination of a chopping device and a mixing device. There are trade-offs between the two functions. These angle iron blades with sufficient power driving them should "mix" like a "sumb**ch." Its chopping ability is going to be mostly limited to brute force tearing and smashing almost hammermill style.

In any case. I look forward to seeing the wanton destruction those blades might produce. I almost wonder if this is a combination papercrete mixer and papercrete SPRAYER. Assuming no lid gets placed on the barrel, and depending upon the tilt angle of the barrel, I bet it would fling papercrete against the upper part of a wall or the inside ceiling of a dome at a prodigious rate.

A YouTube video of that alone should be more than worth the time and effort Spaceman has invested in this mixer. heh heh heh

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:
>
> Do you have any idea how much torque and brute power is required to chop even 50 gallons of paper pulp? A wooden pulley would be no match for Spaceman's creation. I'm thinking the reason Mike McCain moved on from this design to big batch truck mounted mixers is because of the amount of effort and engineering required to make this design work. I notice that no one has posted any pictures and or descriptions of a working model. The reason tow mixers or stationary mixers using a car differentialÂ work so well is that the differential is very sturdy and can hold up to the stress of the mixing.
>
> --- On Mon, 10/29/12, JayH slurryguy@... wrote:
>
>
> From: JayH slurryguy@...
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, October 29, 2012, 4:35 AM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> It is a rather simple task to make your own V-Belt pulley out of wood.
>
> Yes, Wood.
>
> You have a table saw right?
>
> Check out this website. One of the best websites out there.
> http://woodgears.ca/cider/motorizing.html
>
> Matthias Wandel is what we called as I was growing up, "A Dude..... A righteous smaaaaart DUUUUUUDE!!!"
>
> If you paint your wooden pulley with a waterproof sealer, it should be able to withstand the wet environment.
>
> If you ever attempt to use that thing to grind up styrofoam, better put a lid on it. Those little bits of foam will pick up static electricity, stick to everything, and you'll soon be walking around looking like the abominable snowman.
>
> On second thought... go ahead and grind styrofoam without a lid, but make absolutely sure you post photos. heh heh heh
>
> Spaceman wrote:------------------------
>
> Yesterday I did a second test with water and paper, and found that the pulley on the dryer motor just won't get enough grip on the V belt to make it spin with a load. I had other things to do and again today, so maybe tomorrow I'll dig around and find a suitable pulley. I didn't really want to go larger because I like the speed and torque ratio, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a V belt pulley that small. I definitely don't have a larger pulley for the blade shaft and calling around to stores didn't turn one up. It is the wrong season for cooler parts.
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

Have no experience with the Asphalt Emulsion, but waterglass would make your end result with paper crete more fire resistant . It is used in degreasers and some cleaners also, I would try a gallon and do some sample mixes and see the results? What does old latex paint do for it? sometimes you can get that real cheap or free? Have to make it more waterproof I would think?

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RE: [papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

Yes Spaceman, I do have a vague recollection of that. I have done papercrete in very cold temps with no bad results.

Ken, where are you in northern NM? I am in Abiquiu, would love to see what you are doing. I am interested in how the waterglass turns out. I am looking for something to seal my roofs.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 11:46:23 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

I remember Abiquiu in late November a few years back, slinging slurry in the snow. That stuff turned out OK didn't it, Judith?

My brother uses dyed sodium silicate on pottery to get a nice crackle finish. He coats the outside of the pot and lets it partially dry, then expands the pot from the inside. After this step other glazes are applied, this is greenware just off the wheel. Based on this I think water glass is probably not very flexible. I have not used any. It seems that mixed in rather than applied as a fragile top coat would make sense though it may use more of the expensive material.

On 10/31/2012 11:13 AM, ken winston caine wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ken winston caine <ken.winston.caine@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Thanks, Spaceman and Tom. Looks like it's a go. Glad to hear it. Wasn't able to work on my project this summer and am getting quite a late start.

May have something to show you all by Thanksgiving or so, provided we don't get hard hit with an early winter in northern New Mexico.

Hope I get a reply from Charmaine regarding her Water Glass mix and experience. Would like to integrate that into the mix (if advisable) and as an exterior sealant, if advisable.

Tom: The science was interesting to read. I should get the freeze-dry effect, being in northern New Mexico where our humidity is quite low.

Best,

-- ken

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5858 - Release Date: 10/27/12

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] using waterglass

Looks like a good answer is given already.

Here is where to buy http://www.chemistrystore.com/
http://www.chemistrystore.com/product.cgi?group=100590&product=100591 << sodium silicate 1 gal $14.25

(803) 926-5385 1133 Walter Price St Cayce, SC 29033

Potassium silicate info below-- and MSDS on sodium silicate at bottom

My experience: Water glass is a jelly like substance that is already formulated and ready to go. I was given a jar of it,,,looked like egg whites. I painted it on my paper+lime plaster on the steel drum I had made into a big flower planter. It has sat in rain for 5+ years in wet PacNW...and protects the plaster well. (usually paper+lime a Chinese formula I have shared before is going to be used indoors.)    I wanted to see if I could get it to harden enough to limestone to not get soggy while outside. and the waterglass did work.

the company does sell 1 gallon.. not sure you need a full drum to experiment. Used to be avaialble at pharmacies.. but prolly not now.. call one and see?

you can buy online $10 for a quart ( for testing it may be worth it)
http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/sodium-silicate-40-solution-500ml-water-glass-69338136.htm?from=googleshop_us&gclid=CL7fy4_uq7MCFcN_QgodMk4AVw

Here is another version: Research this also--
Everkote by Edison CO sells another version but only commercially-- here is a description:
belpow is the MSDS info on a TX company that sells it.. maybe not i gal tho.
HOW DO EverKote 300 POTASSIUM SILICATE COATINGS WORK?
EverKote 300's potassium silicate binder is produced by fusing potassium carbonate with silica at high
temperature. The result is a soluble silicate, which can be dissolved in water to produce a liquid
"waterglass".
Although soluble silicates can be air dried to form a film, maximum water resistance, bond strength and
long-term durability depend on chemical reactions with the substrate or added catalysts. Substrates with
which silicates can react include:
Calcium salts, typically found in Portland cement, lime and calcareous natural stones such as
limestone and marble Silica, typically present in siliceous sandstones, silica sand, mortars, concrete and glass
Ceramics, including brick and terra cotta
Iron and other metals
When EverKote 300 is applied to suitable substrates, it penetrates and reacts to form a hard, insoluble
silicate. It can also increase substrate hardness, particularly in cementitious materials. When applied to
materials containing Portland cement, the silicate reacts with incompletely hydrated cement particles,
converting unreacted calcium hydroxide (CaOH2 or hydrated lime) to harder calcium silicate hydrates.

1. CHEMICAL PRODUCT AND COMPANY IDENTIFICATION
MSDS NUMBER : M35887                                                   09-06-01
SODIUM SILICATE LIQUID SILICEOUS (ALL GRADES)
Occidental Chemical Corporation, Occidental Tower
5005 LBJ Freeway, P.O. Box 809050
Dallas, TX 75380            (972) 404-3800
1-800-733-3665 OR 972-404-3228
1-800-699-4970
1-800-752-5151
Adhesives; pulp and paper; deinking; detergents;
gels; catalysts; soil stabilization; textiles
Sodium silicate liquid, siliceous
Na2O.xSiO2 (x = or > 2.30 by wt.)
Liquid sodium silicate
Water glass

--
Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

On 10/31/2012 11:13 AM, ken winston caine wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ken winston caine <ken.winston.caine@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Thanks, Spaceman and Tom. Looks like it's a go. Glad to hear it. Wasn't able to work on my project this summer and am getting quite a late start.

May have something to show you all by Thanksgiving or so, provided we don't get hard hit with an early winter in northern New Mexico.

Hope I get a reply from Charmaine regarding her Water Glass mix and experience. Would like to integrate that into the mix (if advisable) and as an exterior sealant, if advisable.

Tom: The science was interesting to read. I should get the freeze-dry effect, being in northern New Mexico where our humidity is quite low.

Best,

-- ken

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5858 - Release Date: 10/27/12

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Fwd: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ken winston caine <ken.winston.caine@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Thanks for all the details from your experience, Joe Bigard.

Know that this is controversial here, but am experimenting with a no-cement mix.

Ingredients are water, paper, clay, lime, flour, borax. Have been playing with various quantities of asphalt emulsion in it over the last 14 months (in small mixes), and am now wondering if water glass might convey the same -- or better -- water resistance and perhaps a stickier wet mix and harder cured wall?

Would you care to comment on how you think it might work with those ingredients? (Minus, or in conjunction with, AE?)

Am still messing with mixes because I have a really sandy clay soil available here and have had trouble getting anything but a rather crumbly crete. (Which may be a good argument for adding cement.)

Have been pouring onto, spraying onto, and mortaring onto burlap and also into small forms in my experiments. While it *looks* like papercrete when it first cures, I found that it washed off the burlap in rains. That happened when I had the burlap attached vertically to a fence-like wall as well as on the burlap lying flat on the ground on a sheet of plywood. Definitely looking for ways to make it more adhesive and more water resistant.

-- ken

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ken winston caine <ken.winston.caine@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Thanks, Spaceman and Tom. Looks like it's a go. Glad to hear it. Wasn't able to work on my project this summer and am getting quite a late start.

May have something to show you all by Thanksgiving or so, provided we don't get hard hit with an early winter in northern New Mexico.

Hope I get a reply from Charmaine regarding her Water Glass mix and experience. Would like to integrate that into the mix (if advisable) and as an exterior sealant, if advisable.

Tom: The science was interesting to read. I should get the freeze-dry effect, being in northern New Mexico where our humidity is quite low.

Best,

-- ken

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder

Do you have any idea how much torque and brute power is required to chop even 50 gallons of paper pulp?

Yup.

A wooden pulley would be no match for Spaceman's creation.

Not necessarily.

There are a variety of factors that need to be considered, but if they are all taken into appropriate account wooden pulleys can designed and built for most any situation. Designed and constructed correctly, the weak link in a pulley system will be the belt.

I could chop 50 gallons of paper pulp using a DC Hobby Motor and a cardboard pulley driving a rubber band belt. It might take over a month to chop all 50 gallons, but I could easily design such a tiny little toy blender that could eventually get the job done.

Don't take my humorously extreme example as something someone should expect to be practical. It's not, obviously. My point is that there are multiple ways to accomplish a task. Large torque and power become necessary if the desire is to churn up massive quantities of mix in a rapid time frame, especially if the mix is a thick and viscous one.

Build a wooden pulley out of a very dense hardwood, especially if it is laminated for strength and you'd be amazed at how strong and durable it can be. Old waterwheel powered grist mills and saw mills had wooden gears and pulleys that transmitted a lot more power than Spaceman is going to get out of that motor. Some of those are still operating after over a 100 years of service.

I think Spaceman is onto an interesting design, and it is fun to watch him develop it.

For example, Spaceman could drastically reduce the torque and power requirements for this scissor mixer if he altered his blade design. If the spinning blades were more streamline, like knife blades, they would not not be nearly the load that he is currently encountering. It would chop trough the paper much easier requiring far less torque and power. The sacrifice would be that it wouldn't stir the mix as vigorously. As this mixer is currently configured it looks a lot more like a mortar mixer than a chopper. Those big angle iron blades look more designed for throwing stuff around than for chopping it up. Of course, that may be exactly what Spaceman is looking to achieve, if so, he's definitely on the right track.

That's something that is rather unique in a papercrete mixer compared concrete or mortar mixers. It's a combination of a chopping device and a mixing device. There are trade-offs between the two functions. These angle iron blades with sufficient power driving them should "mix" like a "sumb**ch." Its chopping ability is going to be mostly limited to brute force tearing and smashing almost hammermill style.

In any case. I look forward to seeing the wanton destruction those blades might produce. I almost wonder if this is a combination papercrete mixer and papercrete SPRAYER. Assuming no lid gets placed on the barrel, and depending upon the tilt angle of the barrel, I bet it would fling papercrete against the upper part of a wall or the inside ceiling of a dome at a prodigious rate.

A YouTube video of that alone should be more than worth the time and effort Spaceman has invested in this mixer. heh heh heh

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:
>
> Do you have any idea how much torque and brute power is required to chop even 50 gallons of paper pulp? A wooden pulley would be no match for Spaceman's creation. I'm thinking the reason Mike McCain moved on from this design to big batch truck mounted mixers is because of the amount of effort and engineering required to make this design work. I notice that no one has posted any pictures and or descriptions of a working model. The reason tow mixers or stationary mixers using a car differentialÂ work so well is that the differential is very sturdy and can hold up to the stress of the mixing.
>
> --- On Mon, 10/29/12, JayH slurryguy@... wrote:
>
>
> From: JayH slurryguy@...
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, October 29, 2012, 4:35 AM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> It is a rather simple task to make your own V-Belt pulley out of wood.
>
> Yes, Wood.
>
> You have a table saw right?
>
> Check out this website. One of the best websites out there.
> http://woodgears.ca/cider/motorizing.html
>
> Matthias Wandel is what we called as I was growing up, "A Dude..... A righteous smaaaaart DUUUUUUDE!!!"
>
> If you paint your wooden pulley with a waterproof sealer, it should be able to withstand the wet environment.
>
> If you ever attempt to use that thing to grind up styrofoam, better put a lid on it. Those little bits of foam will pick up static electricity, stick to everything, and you'll soon be walking around looking like the abominable snowman.
>
> On second thought... go ahead and grind styrofoam without a lid, but make absolutely sure you post photos. heh heh heh
>
> Spaceman wrote:------------------------
>
> Yesterday I did a second test with water and paper, and found that the pulley on the dryer motor just won't get enough grip on the V belt to make it spin with a load. I had other things to do and again today, so maybe tomorrow I'll dig around and find a suitable pulley. I didn't really want to go larger because I like the speed and torque ratio, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a V belt pulley that small. I definitely don't have a larger pulley for the blade shaft and calling around to stores didn't turn one up. It is the wrong season for cooler parts.
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

Just guessing here and happy to be corrected by someone who really knows, but....

It should be affected by the humidity and the size (suface area to mass ratio) of the papercrete in the forms. If it's low humidity, the papercrete should continue to dry during the freeze part of the cycle - like freeze dried food. The paper/cellulose/fiber part of the mix should provide some exposure for the water molecules to pass into the atmosphere. If it does act like freeze dried food, the consistency of the final product might be a little different, even less dense, than the "fresh, never frozen" version. Freeze dried fish and vegetables tend to be more "fluffy" than sun dried and don't seem to have cracks, but that is under ideal conditions (low humidity, low pressure).

My guess is not much cracking, but I'm interested to hear from anyone with real-world experience.

Tom Hay, Ph.D.
A2B Research and Development, LLC
703/672-6033 (internet phone)

www.a2brd.com

On 10/30/12, ken winston caine<kwc@mindbodyspiritjournal.com> wrote:

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] When Scissor mixers go bad.....

Where can we get a copy of that video?

Alan in Michigan

--- On Tue, 10/30/12, Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com>
Subject: [papercreters] When Scissor mixers go bad.....
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012, 2:47 PM

I admire Spaceman for taking a blurry photo and very limited info and creating a scissor mixer of his own design... it's what we don't know that can cause problems.

in 1998 Mike created a hour+ video that showed an amazing amount of work and projects he did with papercrete.. how to do gang panels, the scissor mixer may have been in that same video..

memory fails it could have been another video done not by Solberg but another guy...but I did see a video that showed his design in a blue metal drum, attached to a van..powered by the wheel/differential (I am assuming.) it was intensely powerful and chopped a full drum in less than 2 minutes..in real time as shown on the video and Mike standing there showing it, and confirming it was 2 minutes. he was proud of his creation.

you never know until you try is a smaller motor can do the job, or thinner metal, different parts and materials..that's what an experiment is.

--
Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

[papercreters] When Scissor mixers go bad.....

I admire Spaceman for taking a blurry photo and very limited info and creating a scissor mixer of his own design... it's what we don't know that can cause problems.

in 1998 Mike created a hour+ video that showed an amazing amount of work and projects he did with papercrete.. how to do gang panels, the scissor mixer may have been in that same video..

memory fails it could have been another video done not by Solberg but another guy...but I did see a video that showed his design in a blue metal drum, attached to a van..powered by the wheel/differential (I am assuming.) it was intensely powerful and chopped a full drum in less than 2 minutes..in real time as shown on the video and Mike standing there showing it, and confirming it was 2 minutes. he was proud of his creation.

you never know until you try is a smaller motor can do the job, or thinner metal, different parts and materials..that's what an experiment is.

--
Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

Ten years ago I sprayed and hand packed papercrete for my big dome in February and March, with icicles hanging off the tow mixer at times. I never noticed any difference with that papercrete vs stuff done in warmer weather. This year I experimented with cellulose insulation (posted a link to a video) in conditions like you have and in the morning the wet pc was frozen hard at least on the surface. No problems, it thawed, dried, and looks like papercrete.

An extended freeze might possibly be a problem but I think the pc would just eventually thaw and cure like my partially frozen panels.

spaceman

On 10/30/2012 10:31 AM, ken winston caine wrote:

...Well... my project is running late this fall and we are now into the season of freezing nights. Not every night yet, but some nights. Soon, every night. And, I still need to make a bunch of large forms. If I pour early in the day and daytime temps are in the 40s to 60s, but nighttime temps dip below freezing -- into the 20s -- will my forms cure OK? Or will they crack as they expand and contract in the freeze-thaw cycles. Anyone have experience with this? (Actually, bet it's been discussed here many times before. Didn't search.) I guess the added cure time would vary depending upon how long it takes to thaw each day and how much drying time it gets before it refreezes. Obviously it will take longer to cure -- if it will cure satisfactoriy at all. Would really appreciate input on this before I potentially waste a lot of time and effort if experience has proven it's not going to work out. Thanks, ken winston caine ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5858 - Release Date: 10/27/12

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[papercreters] Re: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

I use water glass in ferrocement, Also called sodium silicate and there is lithium silicate, can be bought from chemical co by 55 gallon drum(cheapest way to buy, prob around 750.00 for drum Brentag)

I mix with 1/2 water(dont let it freeze) and add 2oz of the mixture to 10 pds cement ,20pd sand, 5 lbs fly ash 1oz fiber, seem to help hold everything together more pasty, and supposed to grab fee lime to make a stronger concrete?

Then after applying thin layers into a steel mesh, we take the same mixture in a sprayer and apply to both sides to seal while curing and hardening the out surface? I think the cement mixture draws the silicate into the matrix, water resistant but not water proof, but should grab free lime in concrete and make it less permeable?

Also waterglass or Sodium silicate is fire resistant when mixed with shredded paper? you can coat wood with it to make fire resistant.

the shredded paper insulation you buy may have it in?

No loose situation with paper crete, just unsure how much you can use, prob more than in concrete, too much in concrete causes early cure and too much may weaken concrete if cure too fast, papercrete could handle more from paper being coated. may want to coat paper and let dry before making paper crete?

It is water soluable.

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[papercreters] Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

...Well... my project is running late this fall and we are now into the season of freezing nights. Not every night yet, but some nights. Soon, every night.

And, I still need to make a bunch of large forms.

If I pour early in the day and daytime temps are in the 40s to 60s, but nighttime temps dip below freezing -- into the 20s -- will my forms cure OK? Or will they crack as they expand and contract in the freeze-thaw cycles. Anyone have experience with this? (Actually, bet it's been discussed here many times before. Didn't search.)

I guess the added cure time would vary depending upon how long it takes to thaw each day and how much drying time it gets before it refreezes. Obviously it will take longer to cure -- if it will cure satisfactoriy at all.

Would really appreciate input on this before I potentially waste a lot of time and effort if experience has proven it's not going to work out.

Thanks,
ken winston caine

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

-1- Do you have a formula and instructions for mixing water glass as an effective sealant coat? I think you said the cost was about $35 per gallon. Was that your made-from-scratch cost or did you buy a commercial product?

-2- If you purchased it pre-made, can you cite the brand and product name? I'm not finding a commercial water glass product at places like Home Depot and Lowes -- but don't know what product name to look for, so it MIGHT be there.

-3- Is water glass sealant elastomeric? That is, can it be used on the exterior to coat papercrete? Do you know if it can it handle heating-cooling cycles without cracking in a climate where daytime-nighttime temperatures can be 40 degrees different and can be 10 below some winter nights and 100 some summer days?

-4- Has anyone experimented with mixing this IN with papercrete -- as is done with asphalt emulsion? Any observations or results from that, if so? And any recommended ratios to achieve substantial hardness and water resistance? Am also wondering if it would have a ceramacizing effect and whether it would lock in air -- thus preserving the insulative properties of papercrete -- or whether it would conduct heat and cold rapidly?

If I can get a simple mix-it-yourself formula for it, am interested in experimenting with this concept if it already hasn't been tested.

Appreciate any information you can offer.

And, again let me say, appreciate the incredible wealth of material you have sent each time I have purchased info products from you.

Best,
ken winston caine

------------------------------------

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Monday, October 29, 2012

RE: [papercreters] Re: paper

Those are good suggestions. I stopped by the courthouse in Santa Fe one day to pick up some paperwork and noticed 5 very large bags of shredded paper sitting in the hallway. I asked if I could have them and they were delighted to get rid of them. They had me back right up to the rear door and loaded them for me, which was good because they were too heavy for me to lift. I was reading an article about recycled paper the other day and read that every time paper is recycled it loses some of its fiber length. Does anyone see a problem with using cross shredded paper?

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: atecmail@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:05:27 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: paper

Maybe you could go directly to a bank or some other institution that must shred it's documents.
We get a lot from border patrol, guess border patrol isn't an option for you...maybe a government bureaucracy that is required to shred. ?
or maybe get a school going? Teach those kids about not only recycling but the fabulous stuff you can do with it!
There are some guys here that use regular recycled paper and just rip it up by hand.

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 9:39 PM, scunner <isthatyooo@hotmail.com> wrote:

mm that sounds gr8 Alaine but unfortunely I live in a big backward state of the most backward country in the world ( AUSTRALIA) where they would not aloud that to happen .Here they only recycling the tip of the tip of a icebreg the rest still goes to land fill they are not series about it

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Alaine <atecmail@...> wrote:
>
> We get shredded paper from the community recycling center. They say they
> have to throw away shredded paper so are happy that we take it. We put up a
> sign asking the folks who already recycle to bring their shredded paper
> there to the center and we pick up A LOT weekly.
> Suerte
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:35 AM, JUDITH WILLIAMS <
> williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
> > **

> >
> >
> > Cardboard from the dumpster at the Dollar Store and newspapers saved by
> > the librarian at the local high school. I used to get newspaper at the
> > printing plant but they banned me from their bins (locked them up). I have
> > also used some baled cellulose insulation. I love it although it goes
> > against my plan not to buy anything but the cement. I like it because I can
> > mix it in a mortar boat and it is very easy to use. Also a bale makes a lot
> > of loads. At about $10/bale it is not too pricey considering I have to
> > drive a distance and take some time to get the cardboard and the newspapers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Follow progress on the new project at
> > http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> >
> > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > From: isthatyooo@...

> > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 06:20:11 +0000
> > Subject: [papercreters] paper
> >
> >
> > Where are people getting their paper from ??
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mil Gracias for your interest in ATEC,
> Alaine
> ATEC--Association of Ecotourism and Conservation
> www.ateccr.org
> atecmail@...

> www.greencoast.com
> + 506 2750 0191
> + 506 2750 0398
> ATEC. Local Tours Local Staff
> Unrelenting enthusiastic commitment to our community, our environment, and
> YOU.
>

--
Mil Gracias for your interest in ATEC,
Alaine
ATEC--Association of Ecotourism and Conservation
www.ateccr.org
atecmail@gmail.com
www.greencoast.com
+ 506 2750 0191
+ 506 2750 0398
ATEC. Local Tours Local Staff
Unrelenting enthusiastic commitment to our community, our environment, and YOU.

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Papercreters

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

[papercreters] Videos with Mixers- papercrete info

"Alan" rustaholic777

Re: [papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder

[papercreters] Re: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

RE: [papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

[papercreters] using waterglass

Re: [papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

[papercreters] Fwd: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

[papercreters] Fwd: Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

[papercreters] Re: Spacesman's version of McCain Scissor mixer & Foam Grinder

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

Re: [papercreters] When Scissor mixers go bad.....

[papercreters] When Scissor mixers go bad.....

Re: [papercreters] Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

[papercreters] Re: Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

[papercreters] Can forms withstand daily freeze-thaw cycles?

[papercreters] Charmaine - 4 Water Glass Questions

Monday, October 29, 2012

RE: [papercreters] Re: paper

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