Re: [papercreters] Re: Microscopic examination

Greetings,

I quit using cement except in situations where I want really light
panels, like for ceilings, about 10 years ago. However, my land is
heavy clay. Sand costs money, so does cement. Somewhere in the
archives are our test results of the comparions done 10 years ago. I no
longer have them on my computer as I have suffered several crashes since
they were done.

We have found better fire resistence with clay, using 1/1 ratio of
finely powdered clay to pulped [dryweight] paper, than we go with our
cement mixture, but I don't remember what mixture we were using. Our
clay mixture holds paint well, screws well and doesn't break easily.
Results totally depend on the clay you have available.

Bright Blessings,
Kim

Ernie Phelps wrote:
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh" <janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ernie,
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> Quite welcome, just remember that it is speculation combined with my
> own experience. With that caveat in mind, I would say that cement is
> not necessary as much as it is convenient. Any pozzolan (or many other
> binders for that matter) could be used in it's place, but cement is
> plentiful and not terribly expensive. Clay and other pozzolans can be
> difficult to source or expensive, depending on your location. That is
> not to say that the PC community is not open to the idea, as evidenced
> by many other posters references to lime, clay, fly ash, Darjit, etc.
>
> Best advice I have is what SG says alot, start small and do lots of
> tests before you use it in something big. And always be safe. You can
> mix up another batch if it goes bad, but growing back an extremity is
> more difficult.
>
> - Ernie
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] OT: Home deconstruction / recycling

Not directly on topic, but certainly of interest both as a trend as as
a possible source for materials to be used in PC and PC buildings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/magazine/28house-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

- Ernie

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Microscopic examination

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh" <janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Ernie,

<snip>

Quite welcome, just remember that it is speculation combined with my
own experience. With that caveat in mind, I would say that cement is
not necessary as much as it is convenient. Any pozzolan (or many other
binders for that matter) could be used in it's place, but cement is
plentiful and not terribly expensive. Clay and other pozzolans can be
difficult to source or expensive, depending on your location. That is
not to say that the PC community is not open to the idea, as evidenced
by many other posters references to lime, clay, fly ash, Darjit, etc.

Best advice I have is what SG says alot, start small and do lots of
tests before you use it in something big. And always be safe. You can
mix up another batch if it goes bad, but growing back an extremity is
more difficult.

- Ernie

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Repeated attachements

I'm sorry about the repeated attachments, I was trying to copy the report to
the message but it didn't show up while I was doing it until it came back
from the list.
Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1700 - Release Date: 9/30/2008
11:03 AM

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [papercreters] Re: Microscopic examination

Thanks Ernie,

I guess it’s a little of both, mainly because of the amount of water used which is way more than needed for a reaction. But enough to carry cement particles throughout the slurry.  I must at some point examine some samples with a microscope.

Has anyone done comparisons in strength to mixes using clay rather than OPC CEMENT by weight?

If particle saturation rather than binding is the answer then I suspect clay would show similar properties to cement.

If the cement and sand particles are glued together in a normal cement sand reaction and reinforced by paper fibers then it seems the cement sand additive would be stronger than clay and sand.

Bobs recipes include sand cement, clay, and lime.  These all aid in reacting with each other.  I would like to see test results comparing a similar mix without the cement replaced by more clay.  If there are tests along this line I may be spared more delays.  There are some test results for paper adobe I found that show slightly less strength than that with cement, but I couldn’t locate the clay quantities in the paper adobe.  What I did find is that it appears the cement isn’t particularly necessary to create a structural material though there was more shrinkage with clay.  It may be possible that this can be overcome with less water in the mix.  If there are more tests along this line please direct me to the location they are recorded.

My apologies if this has already been discussed.  I have been very distracted over the past year.

Thank you,

Janosh

I don't think anyone on the list has a definitive answer that has been
independently validated. Some folks think (and I lean this way) that
at "normal" papercrete rations (10-50% cement) the cement permeates
the paper and bonds with it and any other aggregates to form a matrix
that takes some properties from both wood and concrete, varied by the
exact percentages and additives used.

Wood pulp (an by extension paper) will form matrices on it's own, if
allowed to. Compression can enhance this effect. These properties can
be seen in many commercial products such as particle board, OSB, etc.
In papercrete we are merely using cement as the binder instead of
epoxy or other alternatives. That is why slurryguy and other say the
product performs more like wood than concrete.

> It seems that the percentage of cement used would govern the answer.
> My next question is where are the mix formulas in relation to the
> answer.

Since I am not even sure I aswered the first questions to your
satisfaction I am not even going to attempt the next. heh.

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Microscopic examination

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh" <janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
> The idea that papercrete is not concrete and therefore doesn't act
> like concrete has me confused.
> How does the cement work?
> Does it make a cement sand matrix around the paper fibers or does
> it make disconnected particles within the paper fiber mix?
> Does it do both.

I don't think anyone on the list has a definitive answer that has been
independently validated. Some folks think (and I lean this way) that
at "normal" papercrete rations (10-50% cement) the cement permeates
the paper and bonds with it and any other aggregates to form a matrix
that takes some properties from both wood and concrete, varied by the
exact percentages and additives used.

Wood pulp (an by extension paper) will form matrices on it's own, if
allowed to. Compression can enhance this effect. These properties can
be seen in many commercial products such as particle board, OSB, etc.
In papercrete we are merely using cement as the binder instead of
epoxy or other alternatives. That is why slurryguy and other say the
product performs more like wood than concrete.

> It seems that the percentage of cement used would govern the answer.
> My next question is where are the mix formulas in relation to the
> answer.

Since I am not even sure I aswered the first questions to your
satisfaction I am not even going to attempt the next. heh.

- Ernie

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Microscopic examination

The idea that papercrete is not concrete and therefore doesn't act like
concrete has me confused.
How does the cement work?
Does it make a cement sand matrix around the paper fibers or does it make
disconnected particles within the paper fiber mix?
Does it do both.
It seems that the percentage of cement used would govern the answer.
My next question is where are the mix formulas in relation to the answer.
Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1698 - Release Date: 9/29/2008
7:25 PM

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Newbie with questions

I belong to Halloween Group and there is a guy on their that makes
things out of papier-mâché you need to check him out
http://garageofevil.ning.com/xn/detail/u_34gtwfd181dy5 he makes up a
waterproof clay, he totally blows me away.
Babbie

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Adrien Burke <eandubh@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a basic book on this topic. I amnew to this
> group. I am mostly interested in the sculpture aspect, actually,
but
> am open to all of it, although I won't be building a house ever.
>
> On Sep 29, 2008, at 5:25 AM, clydetcurry wrote:
> >
>
> adrien rain burke
> _,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.
> See my design portfolio:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/celtictea/RAIN.ARTINDY.html
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Papercrete Newbie with questions

Can anyone recommend a basic book on this topic. I amnew to this group. I am mostly interested in the sculpture aspect, actually, but am open to all of it, although I won't be building a house ever.

On Sep 29, 2008, at 5:25 AM, clydetcurry wrote:

adrien rain burke

_,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.,__,.+*^*+.

See my design portfolio:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/celtictea/RAIN.ARTINDY.html

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: papercrete shrinkage

There are principly two points in time when one can obtain near
complete bonding to papercrete veneer - as in "papercrete sticks to
papercrete like hair in a bisquet" - new plaster veneer should be
applied before the 7 day set window, if not before the 4 day window-
if not then the substrate should be totally dry - since we began
filling the papercrete with aggregate (perlite) we see total drying in
three weeks and minimal shrinkage- Most are hesitant to invest in
additional materials - It could be sand if you deal with the weight,
still the point here is that it is very helpfull to have a draining
mix, yes- Additionally, there is the issue of excess calcium
carbonate,leftover from the portland cement reaction ( perhaps 20 %).
We strongly advise the use of pozzalonic materials to react the free
lime, which is what is holding all the excess water and thus cracking
and shrinking- skip the shade cloth and focus on the mix- Hope this
helps! - Clyde --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh"
<janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
> I remember reading that it is difficult to get papercrete to stick
to other
> surfaces because it pulls away as it dries and shrinks. It was also
> mentioned that this makes it difficult to build up in layers, the
resulting
> joint between layers having a tendency to delaminate.
> I will be doing some experiments using old fishnet, plentiful here,
to help
> with drainage and bind successive lavers together.
> Two Questions
> 1 Is there a problem, with bond, stuccoing to dry papercrete?
>
> 2 What can be done to improve bonding between layers of sprayed on
> papercrete?
>
> Janosh
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.4/1695 - Release Date: 9/
27/2008
> 1:11 PM
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] papercrete shrinkage

I remember reading that it is difficult to get papercrete to stick to other
surfaces because it pulls away as it dries and shrinks. It was also
mentioned that this makes it difficult to build up in layers, the resulting
joint between layers having a tendency to delaminate.
I will be doing some experiments using old fishnet, plentiful here, to help
with drainage and bind successive lavers together.
Two Questions
1 Is there a problem, with bond, stuccoing to dry papercrete?

2 What can be done to improve bonding between layers of sprayed on
papercrete?

Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.4/1695 - Release Date: 9/27/2008
1:11 PM

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

--- hello connie most stock watering tanky are made out of galvinsed
steel or tin please be very carful when welding or cutting with a
tourch the smoke frow zink is very toxic and can cause metal
poisening . i am a blacksmith and have heard of 40 year blacksmiths
dieing from it in some of the pic i have seen from this group i have
seen holes cut with a torch a hole saw or nibbler is best for
cutting galvinesed tin or steel thank you for your time john In
papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "funmailforconnie"
<funmailforconnie@...> wrote:
>
> Can't right now. I'm in Houston. But when I get home I'll try.
> That may be a while. Connie
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Can you post pictures?
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "funmailforconnie"
> > <funmailforconnie@> wrote:
> > >
> > ><snip>
> > >
> > > Here's where we're at...
> > >
> > > We have built the body of the mixer already. It is a small
> > galvanized
> > > 100 gallon oblong livestock watering tank with two sets of lawn
> mower
> > > blades already soddered in place on two shafts, one centered on
> each
> > > end of the tank. Hubby then had a pully system on top to
attach
> to
> > an
> > > electric motor.
> > >
> > ><snip>
> >
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

hello all i have two tractors with power take off ( pto) or flat
belt drive. one is a 1946 case vai it is about 17 hp .the other is a
IH farmall H it is about 25 hp i also have a 300 gal. fuel tank
and a right angle gear box from a silege chopper i have been thinking
about building a pulper /mixer for papercrete thank you for letting
me join this group john-- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh"
<janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
> I have seen PTO's used to run saw mills, etc. using a telescoping
drive
> shaft off a tractor PTO. I imagine you could hook a shaft to one
wheel on a
> tow mixer blocked up off the ground and locking the brake on the
other
> wheel. It would be sketchy unless you locked the mixer down real
well, but
> would still allow easy moving when not hooked up.
>
> Janosh
>
> _____
>
> From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of clydetcurry
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:47 AM
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??
>
>
>
> ---many farmers have a PTO driven rototiller which, in combination
> with a concrete lined pit, should have the power to make papercrete
in
> volume ! IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO TRY THIS- please stay in touch - If
> we could make this work then we would be empowering all of small
town
> America to be able to make papercrete - what a boon Clyde at
> www.evesgarden.org In papercreters@ <mailto:papercreters%
40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com,
> "funmailforconnie" <funmailforconnie@> wrote:
> >
> > Which of you run your papercrete mixer off your tractor's PTO?
> >
> > Would you share your design or engineering on that with us so I
could
> > show Hubby?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Connie
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.18/1658 - Release Date:
9/7/2008
> 3:30 PM
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

Can't right now. I'm in Houston. But when I get home I'll try.
That may be a while. Connie

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@...>
wrote:
>
> Can you post pictures?
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "funmailforconnie"
> <funmailforconnie@> wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> > Here's where we're at...
> >
> > We have built the body of the mixer already. It is a small
> galvanized
> > 100 gallon oblong livestock watering tank with two sets of lawn
mower
> > blades already soddered in place on two shafts, one centered on
each
> > end of the tank. Hubby then had a pully system on top to attach
to
> an
> > electric motor.
> >
> ><snip>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: mix ratio ?

right....well,I want to build a fence , and let it weather for a year
or so before maybe building a house with it. Since I live in the DFW
area, it will see all spectrums of weather...wet, dry , freezing and
hotter than u know what... So maybe a 50/30/20 ? Seems with alot of ppl
playing with this stuff there would be a list of tried and true, and
tried and "blew" mixes.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: mix ratio ?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith_wasteoil@...> wrote:
>
> anyway, the only ratio that Ive come across is 60/20/20
> paper,crete,sand.... if there is a better established ratio, please
> let me know. BUT, my real question is : is this by weight ?

60/20/20 is a bit heavy on the paper for some applications. Really it
varies on what you are trying to make. If you are going to have water
exposure I would go higher on the portland content and/or seal it or
add latex to your mix. And yes, most folks do the ratio by weight.

- Ernie

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Boats

I agree with guy here's some good starting points http://www.ferrocement.org/  and http://www.ferrocement.com/boats-en.htm that should get you going in the right direction. Ken --- On Mon, 9/15/08, slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote: From: slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Boats To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 10:23 PM Of all the different papercrete mixes and handling techniques I've experimented with, I've never found one that I thought would better for building a boat than other materials already in use. I love papercrete, but it's not the best solution for every problem. I'd look at ferrocement boats. They make infinitely more sense to me than papercrete boats. Just my opinion. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Boats

Of all the different papercrete mixes and handling techniques I've
experimented with, I've never found one that I thought would better for
building a boat than other materials already in use.

I love papercrete, but it's not the best solution for every problem.

I'd look at ferrocement boats. They make infinitely more sense to me
than papercrete boats.

Just my opinion.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete Boats

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh" <janoahsh@...> wrote:
>
> I'd like to add that I believe a closed cell papercrete mix is
possible by
> removing enough water from the pulp to make a balanced water cement
ratio
> with the cement mortar paste that encapsulates the fibers.
> Further balancing the ratio of mortar to fiber to insure full
encapsulation
> should achieve an extremely strong fiber reinforced mortar though no
where
> near as insulating as traditional papercrete.
> Ideally you need to shoot for less than 40% water to cement ratio to
prevent
> residual water from escaping by making thousands of little
capillaries that
> create a porous material that will later reabsorb moisture. There
are other
> things that you can do like adding foamers and water reducing
emulsifiers to
> make a workable mix and still stay below 40% w/c (water/cement Ratio).
> Janosh
>
Well, I won't give up hope on the boat idea,but maybe a whole lot of
experimenting to go before I attempt anything large scale. Thanks for
the input.
Edd

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] mix ratio ?

hey all... this is my first post, and I'm sure this has been addressed
multiple times... but I have precious little time to search, as I can
only access the net at work here and there.

anyway, the only ratio that Ive come across is 60/20/20
paper,crete,sand.... if there is a better established ratio, please let
me know. BUT, my real question is : is this by weight ?

forgive my lack of research.....
keith

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Papercrete Boats

I'd like to add that I believe a closed cell papercrete mix is possible by
removing enough water from the pulp to make a balanced water cement ratio
with the cement mortar paste that encapsulates the fibers.
Further balancing the ratio of mortar to fiber to insure full encapsulation
should achieve an extremely strong fiber reinforced mortar though no where
near as insulating as traditional papercrete.
Ideally you need to shoot for less than 40% water to cement ratio to prevent
residual water from escaping by making thousands of little capillaries that
create a porous material that will later reabsorb moisture. There are other
things that you can do like adding foamers and water reducing emulsifiers to
make a workable mix and still stay below 40% w/c (water/cement Ratio).
Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008
7:16 AM

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete and seawater resistance question

Hi,  I’m not a papercrete expert by any means, but after having researched it for some of the purposes mentioned below It seems that the open cell nature of papercrete makes it vulnerable to saturation by leaks in whatever sealer one might use.  There are ways of venting it to dry it out again, but it’s probably not the best choice for insulating a boat hull.  Vermiculite and Pearlite have been used successfully with engineered mortars and reinforcement for lightweight structural cement boats.  There is more about the later in Ferro Cement Net Archives. 

http://ferrocement.net/index.php?inc=6

I’m not saying it can’t be done, yet I know no successful examples.

Janosh

---

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddlebrained
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:24 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete and seawater resistance question

 

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "alblackwool" <alphadiving@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just curious to know.........
>
> Has anyone done any experiments with papercrete and its resistance
> to seawater and the marine environment?. Ive heard you can make a
> papercrete pond but what about a papercrete boat?. Im not sure i want
> to be the one to find out that the idea will not work whilst im in
> the middle of the ocean...lol
>
> There are many sealants on the market to waterproof anything you
> like....several coats of yaught varnish for example. i guess the
> question would be what would happen if the sealant fails to keep out
> the water or the walls are battered with constant high waves.
>
> PS. The reason i ask is because im tempted to build a floating scuba
> diving center which sits on a floating platform.
>
> Looking forward to anyone who can expand on these thoughts.
>
> Regards
>
> A
>
I thought I was the only one with that thought. Of course,mine was
only for local lake use. I like the lightness of PC ,but I think I
would still have to use a wood frame and possibly a fiberglass layer
over the papercrete to make it work. My plan was to make it electric
powered in a catamaran style hull. I look forward to anyone posting

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete and seawater resistance question

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "alblackwool" <alphadiving@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Just curious to know.........
>
> Has anyone done any experiments with papercrete and its resistance
> to seawater and the marine environment?. Ive heard you can make a
> papercrete pond but what about a papercrete boat?. Im not sure i want
> to be the one to find out that the idea will not work whilst im in
> the middle of the ocean...lol
>
> There are many sealants on the market to waterproof anything you
> like....several coats of yaught varnish for example. i guess the
> question would be what would happen if the sealant fails to keep out
> the water or the walls are battered with constant high waves.
>
> PS. The reason i ask is because im tempted to build a floating scuba
> diving center which sits on a floating platform.
>
> Looking forward to anyone who can expand on these thoughts.
>
> Regards
>
> A
>
I thought I was the only one with that thought. Of course,mine was
only for local lake use. I like the lightness of PC ,but I think I
would still have to use a wood frame and possibly a fiberglass layer
over the papercrete to make it work. My plan was to make it electric
powered in a catamaran style hull. I look forward to anyone posting
anything about this.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Newbie

Hi Everyone. Just found this group thru a link from another page and
decided to join. Looks like I have many posts to read thru. I've been
interested in papercrete for a few years now and have experimented in
a very small way. I live in the southeast and the humidity makes it
hard to get a good drying time if you don't use a larger amount of
portland cement. However, it has been a lot of fun building shapes
that have become clocks,table lamps,etc. I hope to start on a larger
scale this coming spring. I run a fledgling curbside recycling
business so I get plenty of newspaper,junk mail,etc., to experiment
with. Hard part has been running paper stock thru a small shredder.
The newspaper I just tear into strips and mix with water. I just
wanted to say that I am looking forward to reading everything here and
maybe getting a few answers to my many questions I am sure I will
have. Thanks for having me.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Paper, paper and more paper

Larry,

It's time to do some math. Nothing particularly complicated, but I
encourage you to think this through before you create a monster
headache for yourself.

1. What are you wanting to build?
2. What size?
3. What thickness of walls?
4. What type of roof?

Sketch it up.

From that information you should be able to easily calculate the
total volume of papercrete needed. Include whatever will be required
to build the walls and other portions of the structure that will be
made from papercrete.

Then think about what recipe you anticipate using. Make a few small
batches and test them. THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

Once you know what recipe you're going to use, you should be able to
calculate how much paper you will be needing.

To illustrate: A simple rectangular box of a 1000 sqft house might
be 40ft x 25ft. Let's guess that this particular house has 1ft thick
walls and 8ft high ceilings. That's about 720 cubic ft of wall.
(I'm going to ignore the roof for this example and assume it's not a
papercrete roof.)

All of that papercrete for the walls would fit inside a 10ft cube if
you filled it. When you consider that you'll be adding other
ingredients to the paper to make papercrete, a 10ft cube of paper,
tightly packed, should be more than enough paper.
Hmmmmmmm... a 10 ft cube... that's not so huge.

My suggestion:

BUILD A PAPERCRETE STORAGE SHED.

Almost every local building code allows people to build small storage
sheds at least 100 sqft without getting a permit or worrying about
inspections (make sure you verify what your local govt allows...
everywhere is a little different.)

hmmmmm.....100sqft shed? that might be 10ft square? 10ft tall?
That's a 10ft cube. Don't like those dimensions? Fine... change
them to fit your taste. My point is to build your shed large enough
to hold all the paper you're going to need to build the house. If
your local codes won't allow a shed that big, at least build it as
big as they'll allow.

Building a papercrete shed will allow you to learn about papercrete,
and give you a place to store your paper all in one shot.

That small shed structure is something you should be able to build
before winter hits too.

One further advantage to the shed concept is that when the shed gets
full, you'll know to stop getting more paper until you decide to
build something else.

As far as a shredder goes... I suggest building a simple papercrete
mixer and using that. It'll be handy for building your shed anyway.
If your shredder can double as a papercrete mixer you've got the
problem solved.

Oh... a little more math...
At a collection rate of 3 cubic yards of paper per week, you'll be
able to fill a 10ft cube in 37 weeks. I suggest not trying to fill
the shed entirely. I suggest trying to make papercrete as you go and
filling the shed with papercrete, but it may not be entirely
practical.

Make sure you do your own math to fit your particular situation and
not just follow my very arbitrary example. Hey... you never know...
I might stink at math and have calcuated it all wrong in the first
place. You better double check for yourself! ;)

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

Can you post pictures?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "funmailforconnie"
<funmailforconnie@...> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
> Here's where we're at...
>
> We have built the body of the mixer already. It is a small
galvanized
> 100 gallon oblong livestock watering tank with two sets of lawn mower
> blades already soddered in place on two shafts, one centered on each
> end of the tank. Hubby then had a pully system on top to attach to
an
> electric motor.
>
><snip>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] cheap motors for papercrete mixer

I have a number of good quality electric motors that I have salvaged from
old dryers and washing machines at the dump. They also provide spring
loaded idler pulleys, brackets, mounts, pumps, switches, transmissions, etc.

I also have salvaged power steering pumps, and electric clutches from
wrecked vehicles.

I plan on keeping mine so don't ask, but there are plenty more out there.

FWIW

Janosh

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 9/13/2008
12:50 PM

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [papercreters] Paper, paper and more paper

I have stored uncovered bales of shredded paper outside through the monsoon season, and had no problems. Actually it tends to pulp easier after a few wet/dry cycles. Of course remember that I live in the desert so things dry out pretty quickly around here.

Spaceman

larystoy wrote:

Good day to all:  Been reading all of the posts avidly the past few weeks.  Just an update on my progress. Some may remember I live in a small  town in NE Arizona and have not located a reliable source of paper.   Well HOORAY, just received permission from the local Post Office to  get their paper.  I will be getting abut 2 or 3 cu yards per week from them. Also there  are two other Post Offices within 30 miles that I should also be able  to get the paper from now that I have the approval from the first one.  OK, OK, OK, Now what do I do? Haven't even started on my mixer yet  and what with the weather fixing to get yucky, where am I going to  store all of this paper until spring?  The best I could do is to make some wire mesh holding bins and when  they were full cover them with tarp. Of course we all know water has  an ability of it's own to get into any itty bitty opening and seek  out something to get wet causing mildew or mold.  Any ideas on this issue? Don't have any type of building to store  that much paper.  Next item on the agenda, a shredder!! Looking on E-Bay, a commercial  shredder will cost as much as $700. Way too much and my pocket book  isn't very fat. Feeding myself and my dog keeps me broke (nasty  habit, eating).  How about this? I can get 4 inch saw blades for about $4.00 each  ($150). Will need 36 to make an 18 inch shredder. Remember, I'm a  retired mechanic/welder and have the tools and such to build one.  If I place a blade, spacer, blade, spacer on two shafts, mount the  two sets of blades between each other, build a guard so stupid people  (like myself) don't stick their fingers between them, I should be  able to build a shredder that would cut up anything.  Anyone ever built one of their own?  Thanks Larry Arnold larystoy@yahoo.com     ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    

 
  No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com  Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM    

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Paper, paper and more paper

Good day to all:

Been reading all of the posts avidly the past few weeks.

Just an update on my progress. Some may remember I live in a small
town in NE Arizona and have not located a reliable source of paper.

Well HOORAY, just received permission from the local Post Office to
get their paper.

I will be getting abut 2 or 3 cu yards per week from them. Also there
are two other Post Offices within 30 miles that I should also be able
to get the paper from now that I have the approval from the first one.

OK, OK, OK, Now what do I do? Haven't even started on my mixer yet
and what with the weather fixing to get yucky, where am I going to
store all of this paper until spring?

The best I could do is to make some wire mesh holding bins and when
they were full cover them with tarp. Of course we all know water has
an ability of it's own to get into any itty bitty opening and seek
out something to get wet causing mildew or mold.

Any ideas on this issue? Don't have any type of building to store
that much paper.

Next item on the agenda, a shredder!! Looking on E-Bay, a commercial
shredder will cost as much as $700. Way too much and my pocket book
isn't very fat. Feeding myself and my dog keeps me broke (nasty
habit, eating).

How about this? I can get 4 inch saw blades for about $4.00 each
($150). Will need 36 to make an 18 inch shredder. Remember, I'm a
retired mechanic/welder and have the tools and such to build one.

If I place a blade, spacer, blade, spacer on two shafts, mount the
two sets of blades between each other, build a guard so stupid people
(like myself) don't stick their fingers between them, I should be
able to build a shredder that would cut up anything.

Anyone ever built one of their own?

Thanks
Larry Arnold
larystoy@yahoo.com

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] Paper, paper and more paper

Good day to all:

Been reading all of the posts avidly the past few weeks.

Just an update on my progress. Some may remember I live in a small
town in NE Arizona and have not located a reliable source of paper.

Well HOORAY, just received permission from the local Post Office to
get their paper.

I will be getting abut 2 or 3 cu yards per week from them. Also there
are two other Post Offices within 30 miles that I should also be able
to get the paper from now that I have the approval from the first one.

OK, OK, OK, Now what do I do? Haven't even started on my mixer yet
and what with the weather fixing to get yucky, where am I going to
store all of this paper until spring?

The best I could do is to make some wire mesh holding bins and when
they were full cover them with tarp. Of course we all know water has
an ability of it's own to get into any itty bitty opening and seek
out something to get wet causing mildew or mold.

Any ideas on this issue? Don't have any type of building to store
that much paper.

Next item on the agenda, a shredder!! Looking on E-Bay, a commercial
shredder will cost as much as $700. Way too much and my pocket book
isn't very fat. Feeding myself and my dog keeps me broke (nasty
habit, eating).

How about this? I can get 4 inch saw blades for about $4.00 each
($150). Will need 36 to make an 18 inch shredder. Remember, I'm a
retired mechanic/welder and have the tools and such to build one.

If I place a blade, spacer, blade, spacer on two shafts, mount the
two sets of blades between each other, build a guard so stupid people
(like myself) don't stick their fingers between them, I should be
able to build a shredder that would cut up anything.

Anyone ever built one of their own?

Thanks
Larry Arnold
larystoy@yahoo.com

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

I haven’t built a large papercrete mixer but I have been building and modifying equipment for years. 

One problem you may have is that your shafts, etc. may not hold up to larger horsepower if you originally designed for 1.5 HP.  If your tractor has hydraulics you may be able to come up with a hydraulic motor to drive your mixer.  Hydraulics can greatly simplify your system by eliminating the need for gear reductions, and tractor positioning difficulties.

Janosh

---

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of funmailforconnie
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

 

Thanks, everyone. Yes, that would produce papercrete in volume in a
pit but not sure that would meet our particular needs. We only have 30
hours or less on weekends to work on all this. A pit full of
papercrete would be a bit much to dispense plus what do you do with a
concrete pit after you're done? Except maybe use it to bury whichever
spouse is the first to "bite the dust" at the hand of the other in all
the frayed nerves and arguments that erupt in the stress of a house
building project?

Jono..., your suggestion may be applicable to our needs, thanks.

Here's where we're at...

We have built the body of the mixer already. It is a small galvanized
100 gallon oblong livestock watering tank with two sets of lawn mower
blades already soddered in place on two shafts, one centered on each
end of the tank. Hubby then had a pully system on top to attach to an
electric motor. Well, the first one we bought, 1.5 HP, was not
powerful enough. It turned fine w/a tank of water, but when we only
added the paper, not even the other ingredients, it couldn't move.

So we tried to buy the 6.5 HP reversable electric motor from Tractor
Supply for around $200. They have been out for months. It's an item
you can't order from them. Either their warehouse ships it w/their
mass merchandise or you're outa luck. We suspect for some reason, they
do not plan to restock it, darn!

Other motors of that size from other sources appear to be around $600
up. So that's when we thought we would somehow utilize the PTO's on
either of our two tractors we have.

Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated. Keep them coming. Thanks.

Connie

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Mixer running off a PTO??

Thanks, everyone. Yes, that would produce papercrete in volume in a
pit but not sure that would meet our particular needs. We only have 30
hours or less on weekends to work on all this. A pit full of
papercrete would be a bit much to dispense plus what do you do with a
concrete pit after you're done? Except maybe use it to bury whichever
spouse is the first to "bite the dust" at the hand of the other in all
the frayed nerves and arguments that erupt in the stress of a house
building project?

Jono..., your suggestion may be applicable to our needs, thanks.

Here's where we're at...

We have built the body of the mixer already. It is a small galvanized
100 gallon oblong livestock watering tank with two sets of lawn mower
blades already soddered in place on two shafts, one centered on each
end of the tank. Hubby then had a pully system on top to attach to an
electric motor. Well, the first one we bought, 1.5 HP, was not
powerful enough. It turned fine w/a tank of water, but when we only
added the paper, not even the other ingredients, it couldn't move.

So we tried to buy the 6.5 HP reversable electric motor from Tractor
Supply for around $200. They have been out for months. It's an item
you can't order from them. Either their warehouse ships it w/their
mass merchandise or you're outa luck. We suspect for some reason, they
do not plan to restock it, darn!

Other motors of that size from other sources appear to be around $600
up. So that's when we thought we would somehow utilize the PTO's on
either of our two tractors we have.

Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated. Keep them coming. Thanks.

Connie

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [papercreters] Texas Papercreters -- Take care this weekend.

Hello, Ditto from the northern plains.  Please be safe.  For those that would appreciate them, both I personally and my church corporately are "holding you in the light," to borrow a Quaker expression. Drew Celebrating 42 years of God's Grace!  1966-2008 --- On Fri, 9/12/08, slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote: From: slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> Subject: [papercreters] Texas Papercreters -- Take care this weekend. To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 5:49 AM Pardon me for venturing off topic, but we've been a little slow the last couple of weeks anyway. My mind this week has been thinking a lot about our many friends in Texas. We have the highest density of members in Texas and New Mexico. With Hurricane Ike zeroing in on the Galveston and Houston area, I offer my best wishes to everyone in the area. If you live in an evacuation area, I hope you've been able to get out safely. If you live further inland, I hope you've made the appropriate preparations. Whether you are living in a papercrete structure or not. Please be careful. I'm certainly an advocate for building papercrete homes, but I'd rather nobody have to endure a home destruction to generate the necessity to rebuild with papercrete. That said, property is just property. People and family can't be rebuilt. Stay Safe. Best Wishes. slurryguy

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___