Monday, April 28, 2008

Re: [papercreters] fly ash versus blast furnace slag

Hi, this is Clyde from www.evesgarden.org - hope I can help - You are absolutely correct ,in my opinion, to be worried about mold etc.- So here is the deal- the portland cement that is generally used in papercrete , if you use the correct amount, goes a long ways to eradicate the possibility o f mold, or anything else, growing within the substrate- ie it is very alkaline -however you can be sure that mold will grow on the outside of papercrete, or perhaps stainless steel- acrylic will, without a doubt , do a good job of occluding water, yet it will pass water vapor, as it is a fairly open molecular structure -it is not advisable to let water accumulate as the paper fiber will wick the moisture unto its own-airflow in a structure has been an issue in buildings ever since we started tightening building envelopes in the seventies  - the necessary flow is twice what everyone allows - this pretty much dictates the use of an air to air heat exchanger, unless you are using natural ventilation ( which is preferable)- still here is the key - in papercrete it is the un-reacted lime (calcium carbonate) that holds all the excess moisture - the cure is pozzolanic additive to react the lime- we use Power Pozz from applied cement technologies at at least 10% replacement of the portland to create a super cement that will not hold water ( we have proven it in our testing) the problem is that people are resistant to spend the money to make these mixes do what we need them to do - I am available (by e-mail) to help with this - sometimes I am slow at answering, still I am here -Clyde
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:16 AM
Subject: [papercreters] fly ash versus blast furnace slag

I found this article written for the Cement Association of Canada on the web as I was sourcing the base ingredients for papercrete here in Ontario.

http://www.cement.ca/cement.nsf/ep/10BE46299E1FBEB985256E700076EAEA?opendocument

As a hobby potter, I've worked with porcelain clay bodies mixed with paper that impart greater workability to the material and have since been interested in paper and other fibres as structural elements.

Since learning about clay I have always been suspect of the role played by each ingredient and its actual chemical makeup.

Papercrete appears to be a wonderful and environmentally conscious material, but the seriousness of its use in home construction even as it can only be used as an infill product really demands standardization and testing.

Load bearing capabilities would make papercrete an exceptional product where it is merely stupendous.

I have one final concern; mold. In Canada the R2000 standards dictate mechanical heat exchange from within a sealed envelope utilizing plastic vapor barrier to shield from the outside environment. The standard has served well for the past 25 years, but problems along the way included moisture at window junctions and behind the vapor barrier. There have been homes ripped apart to get at the molds growing on paper and wood substrates and even a few deaths from respiratory ailments attributed to this mold.

How will papercrete fare in this regard?




-- tim

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at 9:53 PM

Re: [papercreters] fly ash versus blast furnace slag

Mold prevention additive incorporated in the mix seems to be the general concensus solution.
 
ElfN
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:16 AM
Subject: [papercreters] fly ash versus blast furnace slag

I found this article written for the Cement Association of Canada on the web as I was sourcing the base ingredients for papercrete here in Ontario.

http://www.cement.ca/cement.nsf/ep/10BE46299E1FBEB985256E700076EAEA?opendocument

As a hobby potter, I've worked with porcelain clay bodies mixed with paper that impart greater workability to the material and have since been interested in paper and other fibres as structural elements.

Since learning about clay I have always been suspect of the role played by each ingredient and its actual chemical makeup.

Papercrete appears to be a wonderful and environmentally conscious material, but the seriousness of its use in home construction even as it can only be used as an infill product really demands standardization and testing.

Load bearing capabilities would make papercrete an exceptional product where it is merely stupendous.

I hae one final concern; mold. In Canada the R2000 standards dictate mechanical heat exchange from within a sealed envelope utilizing plastic vapor barrier to shield from the outside environment. The standard has served well for the past 25 years, but problems along the way included moisture at window junctions and behind the vapor barrier. There have been homes ripped apart to get at the molds growing on paper and wood substrates and even a few deaths from respiratory ailments attributed to this mold.

How will papercrete fare in this regard?




-- tim

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at 11:22 AM

[papercreters] fly ash versus blast furnace slag

I found this article written for the Cement Association of Canada on the web as I was sourcing the base ingredients for papercrete here in Ontario.

http://www.cement.ca/cement.nsf/ep/10BE46299E1FBEB985256E700076EAEA?opendocument

As a hobby potter, I've worked with porcelain clay bodies mixed with paper that impart greater workability to the material and have since been interested in paper and other fibres as structural elements.

Since learning about clay I have always been suspect of the role played by each ingredient and its actual chemical makeup.

Papercrete appears to be a wonderful and environmentally conscious material, but the seriousness of its use in home construction even as it can only be used as an infill product really demands standardization and testing.

Load bearing capabilities would make papercrete an exceptional product where it is merely stupendous.

I have one final concern; mold. In Canada the R2000 standards dictate mechanical heat exchange from within a sealed envelope utilizing plastic vapor barrier to shield from the outside environment. The standard has served well for the past 25 years, but problems along the way included moisture at window junctions and behind the vapor barrier. There have been homes ripped apart to get at the molds growing on paper and wood substrates and even a few deaths from respiratory ailments attributed to this mold.

How will papercrete fare in this regard?




-- tim
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at 7:16 AM

Sunday, April 27, 2008

Re: [papercreters] Latex in Papercrete for water proofing????

I've never tried to cast a block or use latex as infill. I've only used latex or prickly pear in stucco coats while spraying or hand trowling. I've seen good results as a thin final coat.


On Apr 27, 2008, at 9:06 PM, Robert & Connie wrote:

Just a quick note about our limited experiments with different 
formulas around our barn.

We made very crude molds right on the ground to create a retaining 
wall to hold gravel in the barn to raise the level of the floor.  The 
formula was always basically the same except in one section we added 
an acrylic water proofing, another latex and another section without 
either.

In spite of some tremendous rains and a pretty darn wet winter and 
spring, the acrylic and plain papercrete has held up and remained 
hard enough to continue to do its job of holding the gravel in.

To our surprise the two sections with the latex paint added got soft 
and even either eroded away or the horses managed to crush it with 
their weight.  So much for using latex as a means of making 
papercrete more water proof.  For whatever reason we found just the 
opposite to be true.

Has anyone else had good or  bad luck adding latex as well?

Inquiring minds wanna know.

Connie


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at 10:12 PM

[papercreters] Latex in Papercrete for water proofing????

Just a quick note about our limited experiments with different
formulas around our barn.

We made very crude molds right on the ground to create a retaining
wall to hold gravel in the barn to raise the level of the floor. The
formula was always basically the same except in one section we added
an acrylic water proofing, another latex and another section without
either.

In spite of some tremendous rains and a pretty darn wet winter and
spring, the acrylic and plain papercrete has held up and remained
hard enough to continue to do its job of holding the gravel in.

To our surprise the two sections with the latex paint added got soft
and even either eroded away or the horses managed to crush it with
their weight. So much for using latex as a means of making
papercrete more water proof. For whatever reason we found just the
opposite to be true.

Has anyone else had good or bad luck adding latex as well?

Inquiring minds wanna know.

Connie


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at 10:06 PM

RE: [papercreters] portland cement

Perhaps you can line the drums with large plastic bags before filling them with cement.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l-williams.com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: texasweldinginspector@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:12:17 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

In transit from just out of Houston, hope to be going Elk City, OK for retirement job. HAHA but got to try it, don't have that many more years to try. Can load into seal-able drums and hope humidity doesn't go too deep.


----- Original Message ----
From: Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:29:38 PM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

You are getting OPC 8 bucks a 94 pound equal. Sounds like a pretty good deal to em if you can keep it dry and the hail off of it.
Where are you now?

Pat B Parham <texasweldinginspect or@yahoo. com> wrote:
Thanks for the come back, I had not thought of addin fly ash to mix.
Have a great day, Pat


----- Original Message ----
From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@ hotmail.com>
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:05:07 PM
Subject: RE: [papercreters] portland cement

I set up a ramp and rolled the drums off the back of the pickup. I had a friend there and we were able to set the drums up pretty easily. Perhaps the 45% fly ash made the mixture lighter? It works very well in papercrete.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l- williams. com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: sklarm-yahoo@ screwdecaf. cx
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspect or wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


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at 7:52 PM

Re: [papercreters] portland cement

In transit from just out of Houston, hope to be going Elk City, OK for retirement job. HAHA but got to try it, don't have that many more years to try. Can load into seal-able drums and hope humidity doesn't go too deep.


----- Original Message ----
From: Curtis Stewart <dbigkahunna@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:29:38 PM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

You are getting OPC 8 bucks a 94 pound equal. Sounds like a pretty good deal to em if you can keep it dry and the hail off of it.
Where are you now?

Pat B Parham <texasweldinginspect or@yahoo. com> wrote:
Thanks for the come back, I had not thought of addin fly ash to mix.
Have a great day, Pat


----- Original Message ----
From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@ hotmail.com>
To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:05:07 PM
Subject: RE: [papercreters] portland cement

I set up a ramp and rolled the drums off the back of the pickup. I had a friend there and we were able to set the drums up pretty easily. Perhaps the 45% fly ash made the mixture lighter? It works very well in papercrete.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l- williams. com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: sklarm-yahoo@ screwdecaf. cx
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspect or wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


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at 2:12 PM

Saturday, April 26, 2008

Re: [papercreters] portland cement

You are getting OPC 8 bucks a 94 pound equal. Sounds like a pretty good deal to em if you can keep it dry and the hail off of it.
Where are you now?

Pat B Parham <texasweldinginspector@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the come back, I had not thought of addin fly ash to mix.
Have a great day, Pat


----- Original Message ----
From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:05:07 PM
Subject: RE: [papercreters] portland cement

I set up a ramp and rolled the drums off the back of the pickup. I had a friend there and we were able to set the drums up pretty easily. Perhaps the 45% fly ash made the mixture lighter? It works very well in papercrete.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l- williams. com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: sklarm-yahoo@ screwdecaf. cx
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspect or wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


------------ --------- --------- ------

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at 8:29 PM

Friday, April 25, 2008

Re: [papercreters] portland cement

Thanks for the come back, I had not thought of addin fly ash to mix.

Have a great day, Pat



----- Original Message ----
From: JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:05:07 PM
Subject: RE: [papercreters] portland cement

I set up a ramp and rolled the drums off the back of the pickup. I had a friend there and we were able to set the drums up pretty easily. Perhaps the 45% fly ash made the mixture lighter? It works very well in papercrete.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l- williams. com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@ yahoogroups. com
From: sklarm-yahoo@ screwdecaf. cx
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspect or wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


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at 7:03 PM

Re: [papercreters] portland cement

They told me they would load barrels with their front end loader and then place on my trailer, could place in more barrels with smaller qualities per barrel if I wanted. You might check with your local batch plant and see if they would work with you for smaller amounts per barrel.

Thanks Pat



----- Original Message ----
From: Mikey Sklar <sklarm-yahoo@screwdecaf.cx>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 


On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspect or wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


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at 7:01 PM

RE: [papercreters] portland cement

I set up a ramp and rolled the drums off the back of the pickup. I had a friend there and we were able to set the drums up pretty easily. Perhaps the 45% fly ash made the mixture lighter? It works very well in papercrete.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l-williams.com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: sklarm-yahoo@screwdecaf.cx
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspector wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


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at 1:05 PM

RE: [papercreters] portland cement

I got portland mixed with fly ash last year at about this time. I paid $25 for each 55 gal drum.

Sincerely, Judith
Visit my papercrete website at www.judith-l-williams.com.

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals, on the other hand, built the Titanic." Author unknown.


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: texasweldinginspector@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:57:55 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] portland cement

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums)
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys.



Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! __._,_.___

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at 1:02 PM

Thursday, April 24, 2008

Re: [papercreters] portland cement

If it is easy for you to move 1 ton of cement in drums that is a good deal. It would cost me $224 before tax for that much cement. I pay $11.19 per bag of Portland. 


On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:57 PM, texasweldinginspector wrote:

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here 
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums) 
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys. 


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at 10:10 PM

[papercreters] portland cement

I read that everyone uses or seems to use bag cement. I checked here
with the batch plant and they will sell to me in bulk (4--55gal drums)
for $140.00 a ton. Just checking to see what folks use?
Thanks for any replys.


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at 8:57 PM

Re: [papercreters] Mixer

>My starting project will be to build papercreate panels to add
>insulation to my mobile home. It is an older model and most of the
>underneath insulation is missing at this time, and my heating costs
>for the winters are killing me.

Hey Larry,

I've considered using papercrete to do insulation under my mfg home too. If you do it, I'd be interested in hearing how it turns out.

Thanks,
Greg

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at 1:14 PM

[papercreters] Mixer

Fantastic site for someone just getting started with papercreate.

For a starter I intend to just use a 55 Gallon drum to mix in.

My starting project will be to build papercreate panels to add
insulation to my mobile home. It is an older model and most of the
underneath insulation is missing at this time, and my heating costs
for the winters are killing me.

I procured 2 Cushman rear axles ($20 for both). Would they be strong
enough for use in a 55 Gallon drum mixer? What RPM should the inside
blade turn at?

I am partially handicapped and don't drive any longer therefore I
don't have a truck for mixing, would a 10 HP gas motor be adequate to
propel it when the drum is filled with slurry?

Could also use some ideas of how to connect the 10 hp motor to the
wheel for mixing. The Cushman only has an 8" wheel, I am thinking of
taking it up to a 13" wheel.

Where is the "Papercreate for dummies" book at?

Thanks for any assistance.

Larry Arnold
larystoy@yahoo.com

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at 11:16 AM

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

[papercreters] Monolithic Pavilion?

Jason here in Mexico. I had an idea come to me and wanted to pass it
by you all. Okay, let me try and explain it. This is being done all
over but I am trying to use a little Mexican ingenuity, to reduce
cost. I build a 51ft. cement column in a perfect circle about 3
meters off the ground with pillars holding it up. I go to my tarp
friend who builds blow up playsets that the kids slide and jump on.
He builds me a blow up dome (airform) 50ft. x 15ft. with the cheapest
tarp pieces available that will sit on half of the circular column 3
meters off the ground. The blow up tunnel will be on the
bottom/center of the tarp dome and go to the ground 3 meters. The
bottom of the airform will be supported by 2x4's and whatever we can
find to hold it up. Put a rebar web around the airform almost like
ferrocement that connects to the column. I will buy a sprayer and we
spray that baby with pumicecrete about 3-4 inches thick. There you
have it. Then we cut the airform up to make different shapes and
build thin walled dormitories around the conference dome. Paint it
with adobe colored textures and make them look nice.

This link has some good pictures:

http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2005/12/monolithic-dome-institute.html

???? Beside the pump and blower, I am wondering if the material would
be super expensive? Does anybody know if there is a cheap pump that
could handle this?

Jason

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at 5:09 PM

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