[papercreters] RE: geodesic papercrete dome cabin

Thanks for sharing these links from all your work!

 

 It's great to see a papercrete dome!!!! 

 

 I think you have made another good point about the shorter strut pieces. One of the goals behind my project is also to make the work simpler and physically light enough so women would be able to confidentially try to build this way. My father is a carpenter and my husband so I've been around many building projects. Now something I've begun to wonder about regarding the hows and the whys to the common methods we use for building today. It seems to me that our building are so heavy also because the building has to hold the weight of the materials as well as protect against the elements. 2ndly I think men unknowingly build to a level that their strength can easily handle. Yet there are so many people that don't have as much strength nor access to the money to build traditionally. I'm very hopeful that we can find ways to build easier and lighter to empower more women who might not have the strong helpers but have the will and brains to do it!

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <Spaceman@...> wrote:

I like higher frequency domes because they give shorter strut lengths. Here is one way of doing it -
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/Paperdome/

This is a 17' diameter frame, a bit smaller than what you want. The longest strut is only 41". It was purposely made small to fall under the 160sq.ft. shed law, to avoid a permit that would have needed an expensive engineer. Now if you do the math you see that it is a bit larger than 160sq.ft., more like 225. The owner gambled that the inspector wasn't great at math other than rectangles, and he was right :)

A few years later that dome came back to me because the guy sold his house and the buyers did not want it. I rebuilt it on a 3' stem wall, then came back and slip-formed papercrete on the outside of it, using those thin triangles as the inside of the form. I'm sitting in it now as I type this.

http://www.starship-enterprises.net/spraywasher/Index.html

My area gets even less rain than you do, and the last few years much less than what's normal for here. Thankfully we don't have much (if any) snow in the winter. Typically we may get one or two light snows that usually stick for less than a day. Some years are exceptions, though. A couple of years ago it was below freezing for a whole week, with snow and ice storms. That really shut things down, including the local electric utility. They had lots of burst pipes!

I definitely agree with making the pc light. You can always come back and plaster on a heavy top coat if you live in a rainy area. A good geodesic frame is amazingly strong, and if you do the papercrete right it would be self supporting, so you get double strength. I have never been one to throw sand or dirt into the mix, and the cement ratio varies depending on the use of the product.

On 11/11/2013 11:45 PM, diggingfortreasure@... wrote:

Thank-you for your reply!!

 

Yes I agree with you that the struts and hub connections would need to be stronger. I'm just thinking that basic style, but heavier steal and wooden cross pieces might work. As for the greenhouse and moisture that also is a very good point you have made. Where we live moisture is not such an issue and greenhouses become very dry since the natural moisture and rain is rather low 9 inches per summer but we do have long 6 month of winter with snow. 

 

I'm also thinking to make the paper mix as light as possible to get the highest R values because we live in northern Canada and get -40C winters and since there would be extra support from the geodesic frame if built heavy enough as you have pointed out.

 

 The straw bale domes in Israel are very, very interesting I must say. I will try to post a link to the readable site as well for you.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <Spaceman@...> wrote:

I've been designing and building geodesics for about four decades, and I live in a papercrete dome.

I was not able to look at your youtube because I'm out in the boonies and my connection isn't good enough for that, but I checked out the links.

That dome frame you're considering doesn't look adequate to me. The struts appear to be 1x4" and are oriented the wrong way for any strength. The hub idea isn't bad but they make no mention of the gauge of the metal. The hardware appears to be the cheap galvanized type. I think their design would be fine for camping or a wedding pavilion. It might not be good for supporting much weight.

Most greenhouses I've been in are very humid. You should keep the moisture content of papercrete below about 18% to prevent mold, not to mention that the wetter your papercrete is, the heavier it is, and the weaker it is. You'll need to consider that in your design and provide a way to dehumidify your greenhouse cover. Humidity and moisture content are not the same thing, but if you keep papercrete in a high humidity environment then the moisture content is going to go up.

Good to see a fellow domehead here. If I can help with your project (free advice) I'll be happy to.

http://starship-enterprises.net/Papercrete/index.html
 
spaceman

On 11/11/2013 6:07 PM, diggingfortreasure@... wrote:

I'm glad that I see other people are thinking about the very, very same things as myself!

 

Here is my plan so far for a new design using papercrete. I'm wanting to use a geodesic frame the way they built using straw bales on the outside of the frame here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NvnhLPBVM

 

However I'm thinking to use the hyperadobe mesh bags to hold the papercrete as the form as I see someone else here has also thought of. Now one more extra idea I've had is to then build a second larger geodesic dome greenhouse around the whole papercrete cabin similar to what this family is doing with their cob home.

http://inthralld.com/2012/10/norwegian-geodesic-dome-residence/

 

I'm thinking the dome greenhouse will help deal with the sealing water issues of the papercrete while creating a nice sheltered garden area. Lastly here is the hub system I'm thinking of using so far. http://domemade.co.uk/the-hub-system/

 

Because the geodesic frame will help with strength I'm thinking I could go very light on the sand and even use the min on cement, what do you all think on the mix ratio's I should consider for this? Right now I'm planning for the cabin to be 300sq ft with a half loft of 150sqft and the greenhouse shelter to possibly be up to a 40ft dome.

 

Jackie

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6821 - Release Date: 11/08/13

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] RE: she said Papercrete and lime wash..breathing

Anytime Jackie ! I'm also into geodesic domes which are very eco friendly too !

On Friday, November 15, 2013 12:25 AM, "diggingfortreasure@yahoo.ca" <diggingfortreasure@yahoo.ca> wrote:

 

Thank-you very much for have taken the time to give me such a detailed answer.

 

Jackie 

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <charmainertaylor@...> wrote:

Jackie,  Lime wash and lime plasters when placed over any surface will   manage moisture naturally..ie cement/concrete holds water til it can dry out, but with washes or plasters the lime is 'hydrophilic'--water loving, it can hold a great deal, then begin to evaporate it  quickly away after.  

this is why it is popular on strawbale walls...coated as they are in concrete plaster, when water seeps in the bales will just rot, and you can't tell , until trouble..sometime fire caused by thermal buildup from gases.

Lime acts not like a raincoat--not allowing water in, but more like a good wool sweater, soaks up moisture..but KEEPS it in itself, not allowing to just pass thru to the wall, and if any does (severe rains) it allows the moisture a route out, unlike a 'raincoat'

make sense?

I have done clay-paper-sawdust plasters over crappy old particle board walls, then a nice natural lime+sand+paper plaster....once it cures no paint is needed, it prevents mold and bugs,   I put this plaster up over my north facing cold bathroom walls, tiny room with a shower, just to see if it would fail...after 6 years of daily use there is not one speck of mold or  growth as in normal bathrooms. 

The lime has hardened back to limestone..and will NOT burn now**, and an occasional simple wipe down,(mostly for dust or cobwebs)  not a scrub keeps it clean.can be lime washed every few years for freshening up, or to add a color tint if you don't want all white. and it feels great to the touch, people respond to this.

The recipe I used ( for inside only..will wear out sooner outdoors when exposed) is a Chinese recipe I discovered in a book detailing many many earth and lime home build styles..amazing what they did in rural China with no tools or materials other than clay.

another plus of this plaster- with shredded paper in it-- is you can create an ancient, old world look, or very smooth, or add more sand and get a Mexican stucco look...

** ONE main advantage of using lime over papercrete is it provides similar fire-burn barrier of gypsum drywall..for your  safety code requires a 1.5 hour burn thru time, if you are NOT installing conventional gypboard you need something, for your own protection, even if no codes are involved/inspection, etc.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Chinese recipe for Paper Lime plaster  interior use   By WEIGHT-1 part (lb.) chopped/shredded paper-office paper – or newspaper insulation to 10 parts (lb.) soft lime putty (type N or S hydrated lime soaked in water 48 hours) Mix well in large bucket or bin with tight lid. Seal lid. Let mellow 2-4 weeks, stir in 1/2-1 parts sharp sand to make more trowelable. Mix with paint stem/paddle blade to make creamy.. Spread on wall by hand or trowel. Sculpt and dry. feather edges thin at stop points. Can be limewashed; embed tiles while soft. Adding extra sand gives a stronger, more old world plaster/mortar look; for outdoor use eliminate paper or coat with sealer, or waterglass.

Note from Charmaine: Successfully applied to new and old DRYWALL, particle board on my work studio & bathroom walls.  

Lime & Clay Resource Guide: http://www.papercrete.com/limeclaycdguide.html
National Lime Assoc www.lime.org/

Pargeting-decorative lime www.kettlenet.co.uk/

US Parks Building articles: www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/presbhom.htm Lime plaster on Straw Bales: http://solarhaven.org/Construction4Lime.htm Tadelakt lime plaster- www.naturalpaint.com.au/
Building Conservation-Lime articles: www.buildingconservation.com/ 

article on rice and lime building:

http://karmsundbk.com/chinese-made-buildings-with-sticky-rice-and-lime-mortar.html

primer on lime plaster over straw walls:

http://www.genevar.com.au/strawbale/sbat_files/sbat_files- A.html 

--

Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." (Obamacare)

 

 
 

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] RE: she said Papercrete and lime wash..breathing

Thank-you very much for have taken the time to give me such a detailed answer.

 

Jackie 

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <charmainertaylor@...> wrote:

Jackie,  Lime wash and lime plasters when placed over any surface will   manage moisture naturally..ie cement/concrete holds water til it can dry out, but with washes or plasters the lime is 'hydrophilic'--water loving, it can hold a great deal, then begin to evaporate it  quickly away after.  

this is why it is popular on strawbale walls...coated as they are in concrete plaster, when water seeps in the bales will just rot, and you can't tell , until trouble..sometime fire caused by thermal buildup from gases.

Lime acts not like a raincoat--not allowing water in, but more like a good wool sweater, soaks up moisture..but KEEPS it in itself, not allowing to just pass thru to the wall, and if any does (severe rains) it allows the moisture a route out, unlike a 'raincoat'

make sense?

I have done clay-paper-sawdust plasters over crappy old particle board walls, then a nice natural lime+sand+paper plaster....once it cures no paint is needed, it prevents mold and bugs,   I put this plaster up over my north facing cold bathroom walls, tiny room with a shower, just to see if it would fail...after 6 years of daily use there is not one speck of mold or  growth as in normal bathrooms. 

The lime has hardened back to limestone..and will NOT burn now**, and an occasional simple wipe down,(mostly for dust or cobwebs)  not a scrub keeps it clean.can be lime washed every few years for freshening up, or to add a color tint if you don't want all white. and it feels great to the touch, people respond to this.

The recipe I used ( for inside only..will wear out sooner outdoors when exposed) is a Chinese recipe I discovered in a book detailing many many earth and lime home build styles..amazing what they did in rural China with no tools or materials other than clay.

another plus of this plaster- with shredded paper in it-- is you can create an ancient, old world look, or very smooth, or add more sand and get a Mexican stucco look...

** ONE main advantage of using lime over papercrete is it provides similar fire-burn barrier of gypsum drywall..for your  safety code requires a 1.5 hour burn thru time, if you are NOT installing conventional gypboard you need something, for your own protection, even if no codes are involved/inspection, etc.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Chinese recipe for Paper Lime plaster  interior use   By WEIGHT-1 part (lb.) chopped/shredded paper-office paper – or newspaper insulation to 10 parts (lb.) soft lime putty (type N or S hydrated lime soaked in water 48 hours) Mix well in large bucket or bin with tight lid. Seal lid. Let mellow 2-4 weeks, stir in 1/2-1 parts sharp sand to make more trowelable. Mix with paint stem/paddle blade to make creamy.. Spread on wall by hand or trowel. Sculpt and dry. feather edges thin at stop points. Can be limewashed; embed tiles while soft. Adding extra sand gives a stronger, more old world plaster/mortar look; for outdoor use eliminate paper or coat with sealer, or waterglass.

Note from Charmaine: Successfully applied to new and old DRYWALL, particle board on my work studio & bathroom walls.  

Lime & Clay Resource Guide: http://www.papercrete.com/limeclaycdguide.html
National Lime Assoc www.lime.org/

Pargeting-decorative lime www.kettlenet.co.uk/

US Parks Building articles: www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/presbhom.htm Lime plaster on Straw Bales: http://solarhaven.org/Construction4Lime.htm Tadelakt lime plaster- www.naturalpaint.com.au/
Building Conservation-Lime articles: www.buildingconservation.com/ 

article on rice and lime building:

http://karmsundbk.com/chinese-made-buildings-with-sticky-rice-and-lime-mortar.html

primer on lime plaster over straw walls:

http://www.genevar.com.au/strawbale/sbat_files/sbat_files- A.html 

--

Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Robert Heinlein (1907-1988) "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." (Obamacare)

 

 
 

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[papercreters] RE: geodesic papercrete dome cabin

I agree about the straw I considered it for a long time and came to believe it is not well suited for my needs and area. However the design concept of the inside geo frame they have come up with is really smart I feel, and I think will work even better with papercrete instead of straw bales.  I've made lot's of papercrete blocks and this time I'm going to try the hyperadobe mesh running bag system. It would be great if we could find a way to reduce one handling step with crete production I'm thinking.

 

What mix would you suggest? I've mainly used 'living in paper' mixes.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <Spaceman@...> wrote:

Thanks. That is interesting. I'm not much of a strawbale fan for several reasons. I am leery of a wall that will turn to mush without any indication, just from a small leak. Papercrete does not do that if you install it right. Another reason is that I live in an area where there is no straw and it would be really expensive to have it shipped here.

Using a similar scheme with pc blocks should work great. If water is a problem you can seal it with a heavy cement content papercrete plaster.

On 11/12/2013 7:49 AM, diggingfortreasure@... wrote:

Here is the web site for the straw bale dome cabins.

 

 http://www.kibbutzlotan.com/ecoguide/strawbaleConstruction.html

 

I really think papercrete could be used very similar and even turn out nicer with the crete possibly bonding and forming to the frame better.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <diggingfortreasure@...> wrote:

Thank-you for your reply!!

 

Yes I agree with you that the struts and hub connections would need to be stronger. I'm just thinking that basic style, but heavier steal and wooden cross pieces might work. As for the greenhouse and moisture that also is a very good point you have made. Where we live moisture is not such an issue and greenhouses become very dry since the natural moisture and rain is rather low 9 inches per summer but we do have long 6 month of winter with snow. 

 

I'm also thinking to make the paper mix as light as possible to get the highest R values because we live in northern Canada and get -40C winters and since there would be extra support from the geodesic frame if built heavy enough as you have pointed out.

 

 The straw bale domes in Israel are very, very interesting I must say. I will try to post a link to the readable site as well for you.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <Spaceman@...> wrote:

I've been designing and building geodesics for about four decades, and I live in a papercrete dome.

I was not able to look at your youtube because I'm out in the boonies and my connection isn't good enough for that, but I checked out the links.

That dome frame you're considering doesn't look adequate to me. The struts appear to be 1x4" and are oriented the wrong way for any strength. The hub idea isn't bad but they make no mention of the gauge of the metal. The hardware appears to be the cheap galvanized type. I think their design would be fine for camping or a wedding pavilion. It might not be good for supporting much weight.

Most greenhouses I've been in are very humid. You should keep the moisture content of papercrete below about 18% to prevent mold, not to mention that the wetter your papercrete is, the heavier it is, and the weaker it is. You'll need to consider that in your design and provide a way to dehumidify your greenhouse cover. Humidity and moisture content are not the same thing, but if you keep papercrete in a high humidity environment then the moisture content is going to go up.

Good to see a fellow domehead here. If I can help with your project (free advice) I'll be happy to.

http://starship-enterprises.net/Papercrete/index.html
 
spaceman

On 11/11/2013 6:07 PM, diggingfortreasure@... wrote:

I'm glad that I see other people are thinking about the very, very same things as myself!

 

Here is my plan so far for a new design using papercrete. I'm wanting to use a geodesic frame the way they built using straw bales on the outside of the frame here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NvnhLPBVM

 

However I'm thinking to use the hyperadobe mesh bags to hold the papercrete as the form as I see someone else here has also thought of. Now one more extra idea I've had is to then build a second larger geodesic dome greenhouse around the whole papercrete cabin similar to what this family is doing with their cob home.

http://inthralld.com/2012/10/norwegian-geodesic-dome-residence/

 

I'm thinking the dome greenhouse will help deal with the sealing water issues of the papercrete while creating a nice sheltered garden area. Lastly here is the hub system I'm thinking of using so far. http://domemade.co.uk/the-hub-system/

 

Because the geodesic frame will help with strength I'm thinking I could go very light on the sand and even use the min on cement, what do you all think on the mix ratio's I should consider for this? Right now I'm planning for the cabin to be 300sq ft with a half loft of 150sqft and the greenhouse shelter to possibly be up to a 40ft dome.

 

Jackie

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6821 - Release Date: 11/08/13

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] RE: geodesic papercrete dome cabin

Thanks. That is interesting. I'm not much of a strawbale fan for several reasons. I am leery of a wall that will turn to mush without any indication, just from a small leak. Papercrete does not do that if you install it right. Another reason is that I live in an area where there is no straw and it would be really expensive to have it shipped here.

Using a similar scheme with pc blocks should work great. If water is a problem you can seal it with a heavy cement content papercrete plaster.

On 11/12/2013 7:49 AM, diggingfortreasure@yahoo.ca wrote:

Here is the web site for the straw bale dome cabins.

 

 http://www.kibbutzlotan.com/ecoguide/strawbaleConstruction.html

 

I really think papercrete could be used very similar and even turn out nicer with the crete possibly bonding and forming to the frame better.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <diggingfortreasure@...> wrote:

Thank-you for your reply!!

 

Yes I agree with you that the struts and hub connections would need to be stronger. I'm just thinking that basic style, but heavier steal and wooden cross pieces might work. As for the greenhouse and moisture that also is a very good point you have made. Where we live moisture is not such an issue and greenhouses become very dry since the natural moisture and rain is rather low 9 inches per summer but we do have long 6 month of winter with snow. 

 

I'm also thinking to make the paper mix as light as possible to get the highest R values because we live in northern Canada and get -40C winters and since there would be extra support from the geodesic frame if built heavy enough as you have pointed out.

 

 The straw bale domes in Israel are very, very interesting I must say. I will try to post a link to the readable site as well for you.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <Spaceman@...> wrote:

I've been designing and building geodesics for about four decades, and I live in a papercrete dome.

I was not able to look at your youtube because I'm out in the boonies and my connection isn't good enough for that, but I checked out the links.

That dome frame you're considering doesn't look adequate to me. The struts appear to be 1x4" and are oriented the wrong way for any strength. The hub idea isn't bad but they make no mention of the gauge of the metal. The hardware appears to be the cheap galvanized type. I think their design would be fine for camping or a wedding pavilion. It might not be good for supporting much weight.

Most greenhouses I've been in are very humid. You should keep the moisture content of papercrete below about 18% to prevent mold, not to mention that the wetter your papercrete is, the heavier it is, and the weaker it is. You'll need to consider that in your design and provide a way to dehumidify your greenhouse cover. Humidity and moisture content are not the same thing, but if you keep papercrete in a high humidity environment then the moisture content is going to go up.

Good to see a fellow domehead here. If I can help with your project (free advice) I'll be happy to.

http://starship-enterprises.net/Papercrete/index.html
 
spaceman

On 11/11/2013 6:07 PM, diggingfortreasure@... wrote:

I'm glad that I see other people are thinking about the very, very same things as myself!

 

Here is my plan so far for a new design using papercrete. I'm wanting to use a geodesic frame the way they built using straw bales on the outside of the frame here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NvnhLPBVM

 

However I'm thinking to use the hyperadobe mesh bags to hold the papercrete as the form as I see someone else here has also thought of. Now one more extra idea I've had is to then build a second larger geodesic dome greenhouse around the whole papercrete cabin similar to what this family is doing with their cob home.

http://inthralld.com/2012/10/norwegian-geodesic-dome-residence/

 

I'm thinking the dome greenhouse will help deal with the sealing water issues of the papercrete while creating a nice sheltered garden area. Lastly here is the hub system I'm thinking of using so far. http://domemade.co.uk/the-hub-system/

 

Because the geodesic frame will help with strength I'm thinking I could go very light on the sand and even use the min on cement, what do you all think on the mix ratio's I should consider for this? Right now I'm planning for the cabin to be 300sq ft with a half loft of 150sqft and the greenhouse shelter to possibly be up to a 40ft dome.

 

Jackie

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6821 - Release Date: 11/08/13

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] IS IT TRUE?

Hardness depends on the ratio of portland cement to the aggregate (and the right amount of water). It used to be common to order different strengths with a term like "8 sack" meaning 800 pounds of portland per yard, and more sacks for more strength. 8 sack cures to about 3,000psi compression strength, more portland will give you higher compression strength. In my years of contracting I bought a whole lot of concrete.

At any rate, putting papercrete in standard concrete will reduce the strength compared to the same mix without the added papercrete. Conversely, adding more portland cement to papercrete will increase the strength.

On 11/12/2013 9:03 AM, Conrad Fournier wrote:

Most probably NOT ! compressive strength depends on the hardness of the aggregate ! Cement by itself is not the greatest by itself but add stone to it and it increases. Even crushed glass will increase it !

On Monday, November 11, 2013 9:46 PM, "abdullah_saleem92@yahoo.com" <abdullah_saleem92@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

IF WE ADD PAPERCRETE TO STANDARD CONCRETE ( 5%) THE COMPRESSIVE STRENGTH WILL INCREASE? 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6821 - Release Date: 11/08/13

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] geodesic papercrete dome cabin

I like higher frequency domes because they give shorter strut lengths. Here is one way of doing it -
http://www.starship-enterprises.net/Paperdome/

This is a 17' diameter frame, a bit smaller than what you want. The longest strut is only 41". It was purposely made small to fall under the 160sq.ft. shed law, to avoid a permit that would have needed an expensive engineer. Now if you do the math you see that it is a bit larger than 160sq.ft., more like 225. The owner gambled that the inspector wasn't great at math other than rectangles, and he was right :)

A few years later that dome came back to me because the guy sold his house and the buyers did not want it. I rebuilt it on a 3' stem wall, then came back and slip-formed papercrete on the outside of it, using those thin triangles as the inside of the form. I'm sitting in it now as I type this.

http://www.starship-enterprises.net/spraywasher/Index.html

My area gets even less rain than you do, and the last few years much less than what's normal for here. Thankfully we don't have much (if any) snow in the winter. Typically we may get one or two light snows that usually stick for less than a day. Some years are exceptions, though. A couple of years ago it was below freezing for a whole week, with snow and ice storms. That really shut things down, including the local electric utility. They had lots of burst pipes!

I definitely agree with making the pc light. You can always come back and plaster on a heavy top coat if you live in a rainy area. A good geodesic frame is amazingly strong, and if you do the papercrete right it would be self supporting, so you get double strength. I have never been one to throw sand or dirt into the mix, and the cement ratio varies depending on the use of the product.

On 11/11/2013 11:45 PM, diggingfortreasure@yahoo.ca wrote:

Thank-you for your reply!!

 

Yes I agree with you that the struts and hub connections would need to be stronger. I'm just thinking that basic style, but heavier steal and wooden cross pieces might work. As for the greenhouse and moisture that also is a very good point you have made. Where we live moisture is not such an issue and greenhouses become very dry since the natural moisture and rain is rather low 9 inches per summer but we do have long 6 month of winter with snow. 

 

I'm also thinking to make the paper mix as light as possible to get the highest R values because we live in northern Canada and get -40C winters and since there would be extra support from the geodesic frame if built heavy enough as you have pointed out.

 

 The straw bale domes in Israel are very, very interesting I must say. I will try to post a link to the readable site as well for you.

 

Jackie

---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <Spaceman@...> wrote:

I've been designing and building geodesics for about four decades, and I live in a papercrete dome.

I was not able to look at your youtube because I'm out in the boonies and my connection isn't good enough for that, but I checked out the links.

That dome frame you're considering doesn't look adequate to me. The struts appear to be 1x4" and are oriented the wrong way for any strength. The hub idea isn't bad but they make no mention of the gauge of the metal. The hardware appears to be the cheap galvanized type. I think their design would be fine for camping or a wedding pavilion. It might not be good for supporting much weight.

Most greenhouses I've been in are very humid. You should keep the moisture content of papercrete below about 18% to prevent mold, not to mention that the wetter your papercrete is, the heavier it is, and the weaker it is. You'll need to consider that in your design and provide a way to dehumidify your greenhouse cover. Humidity and moisture content are not the same thing, but if you keep papercrete in a high humidity environment then the moisture content is going to go up.

Good to see a fellow domehead here. If I can help with your project (free advice) I'll be happy to.

http://starship-enterprises.net/Papercrete/index.html
 
spaceman

On 11/11/2013 6:07 PM, diggingfortreasure@... wrote:

I'm glad that I see other people are thinking about the very, very same things as myself!

 

Here is my plan so far for a new design using papercrete. I'm wanting to use a geodesic frame the way they built using straw bales on the outside of the frame here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NvnhLPBVM

 

However I'm thinking to use the hyperadobe mesh bags to hold the papercrete as the form as I see someone else here has also thought of. Now one more extra idea I've had is to then build a second larger geodesic dome greenhouse around the whole papercrete cabin similar to what this family is doing with their cob home.

http://inthralld.com/2012/10/norwegian-geodesic-dome-residence/

 

I'm thinking the dome greenhouse will help deal with the sealing water issues of the papercrete while creating a nice sheltered garden area. Lastly here is the hub system I'm thinking of using so far. http://domemade.co.uk/the-hub-system/

 

Because the geodesic frame will help with strength I'm thinking I could go very light on the sand and even use the min on cement, what do you all think on the mix ratio's I should consider for this? Right now I'm planning for the cabin to be 300sq ft with a half loft of 150sqft and the greenhouse shelter to possibly be up to a 40ft dome.

 

Jackie

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6821 - Release Date: 11/08/13

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___