While I think it is worthwhile for you to consider all options, the best way to power a papercrete mixer will usually be with the power source that you already have available to you.
Your post did get me thinking about mixer gas milage, and that lead to me posting the competition thread. That didn't do much to answer your questions.
Without actually measuring how much gas, or electricity gets used to mix papercrete, I suspect that the mixer energy cost, no matter what type of mixer you use, will be minimal compared to other costs.
I encourage you to consider what type of mixer will allow you to mix the maximum amount of papercrete as quickly as practical, with a minimum of physical labor. The larger the structure you wish to build, the more papercrete you will need to mix, and the more time and work you will need to put in.
Sometimes it simply makes sense to have a big overpowered machine do as much work as possible to save time, money, and labor in other areas of construction. Even if that big overpowered machine may burn a little extra gas.
Of course, whatever "simply makes sense" in your personal situation will be determined by you. (Appropriately so.)
If an electric mixer makes sense to you for the way you plan to work and build your structure, go for it. If you want to power your mixer via 10000 hampsters generating power on 10000 hampster wheels, go for it.... JUST MAKE SURE TO POST PHOTOS AND VIDEOS!!!
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "danclarke95076" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm collecting parts for a tow mixed but mindful of the energy ( cost of gas ) to tow it around, so I'm always looking at other kinds of mixer that might be used with an electric motor or vertical shaft gas engine from a lawn mower or such.
>
> Here's a link to an ad that showed up on Craigslist labeling it a media shredder. I don't know how this design would work with paper or cardbourd but thought, if I am allowed, I'd publish it here in case it might be of interest.
>
> http://tucson.craigslist.org/tls/3520388633.html
>
> On another note, my brother works for a plant that makes paper plates and he says their pulper is about 16' across and 4' deep and iutilizes a 1'-2' diameter helix shaped impeller in the center. It is powered by a 50 hp. electric motor.
>
> I'm trying to get some pictures of it to post here.
>
> Thirdly, why?. Given that I recall posting here before and never in a non-constructive way, does this post have to be approved by the group owner??
>
> Dan
>
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Sunday, January 6, 2013
[papercreters] Re: Studying different kinds of mixers
[papercreters] Re: Tow Mixer Gas Milage Competition
All this is fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the FUN factor.
The Tow Mixer Gas Milage Competition is mostly for fun.
Yes, I think we can learn a few things in the process too.
I'm more than happy to open up the concept to other energy sources, each in their own category. However, most people don't have a watt-hour meter. Anyone that does have a "Kill-A-Watt" or other similar watt-hour meter is encouraged to measure their electric mixer in operation and post their results as well. FYI, those Kill-A-Watt type meters can pay for themselves very quickly if you use them to track down all the phantom loads burning electricity in your home needlessly.
For that matter, I'd love to see Clarissa post about how much papercrete her draft horses can mix per bucket of oats or bale of hay! That would be... AWESOME!
Bottom line, I think it will be fun to see how much energy each papercreter uses to mix up papercrete. If we happen to learn some new things to help each other become better at doing it... all the better.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, josef mc wrote:
>
> a little math will show there are more efficient ways to make pulp than
> pulling it behind a car. however i think the convenience of a tow behind
> mixer outweighs the gas savings. (dump out into forms instead of lifting
> heavy pulp)
>
> Gasoline contains about 36600 Wh/US gal.
> the 5hp Baldor motor mixer shown in this post:
>
> http://tucson.craigslist.org/tls/3520388633.html
>
> 5 hp = 746 watt (1 hp) x 5= 3730 watt to operate for one hour = 3730 wh
> with a gasoline engine being approx 35% efficient at best this means i
> could run this electric 5 hp motor for 3,5 hours on one gallon of fuel.
>
> towing a trailer might add one gallon of fuel to the regular usage of the
> car. needles to say that the gas driving the car surely outweighs the
> additional fuel, so unless you would have driven the car anyhow. you are
> wasting a lot of gas. however like i said i think the convenience outweighs
> the gas debate any day.
> if you are talking about setting up a production line inside a shop as a
> permanent install. the electric operation will always be less energy
> consumed.
>
> if we would be debating the emissions it would be a whole other debate.
> the 3730 watt needed to operate the electric motor have 78% heat loss at
> the power plant to add to them. this means it was 16954 watt (raw fuel)
> needed to produce those 3730 watt electrical.
> the watt ratio of electrical power (final fuel) to gasoline (raw fuel) =
> 1:2
> since gasoline otto type engines are 35% efficient at best.
>
>
> 16954 watt (raw fuel) to produce 3730 watt electrical = 3.5hour run time
> 5hp (el) motor= 59339 watt (raw fuel) to operate 3.5 hours (power plant 22%
> efficient with 78% heat losses)
>
> so unless you are operating on a wind mill or a wood gasifier to produce
> your electrical power to run your mixers. It is producing more emissions
> utilizing electrical grid power (coal fired power plants 22% vs 78% waste)
> than using a regular gasoline engine 35% efficient.
>
> I know i went to far with this simple question just thought it might be
> interesting to somebody lol.
>
>
>
> --
> Please check out my website, it shows one alternative for us to learn how
> to built your own power supply.
> It is a self cycling biomass
> gasification process
> utilizing a combined
> heat and power (CHP)
> approach with grass
> clippings and
> woodgas to
> power your home.
>
> www.OneAlternative.US
>
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Saturday, January 5, 2013
[papercreters] Re: Tow Mixer Gas Milage Competition
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[papercreters] Re: Tow Mixer Gas Milage Competition
a little math will show there are more efficient ways to make pulp than pulling it behind a car. however i think the convenience of a tow behind mixer outweighs the gas savings. (dump out into forms instead of lifting heavy pulp)
Gasoline contains about 36600 Wh/US gal.
the 5hp Baldor motor mixer shown in this post:
http://tucson.craigslist.org/tls/3520388633.html
5 hp = 746 watt (1 hp) x 5= 3730 watt to operate for one hour = 3730 wh
with a gasoline engine being approx 35% efficient at best this means i could run this electric 5 hp motor for 3,5 hours on one gallon of fuel.
towing a trailer might add one gallon of fuel to the regular usage of the car. needles to say that the gas driving the car surely outweighs the additional fuel, so unless you would have driven the car anyhow. you are wasting a lot of gas. however like i said i think the convenience outweighs the gas debate any day.
if you are talking about setting up a production line inside a shop as a permanent install. the electric operation will always be less energy consumed.
if we would be debating the emissions it would be a whole other debate.
the 3730 watt needed to operate the electric motor have 78% heat loss at the power plant to add to them. this means it was 16954 watt (raw fuel) needed to produce those 3730 watt electrical.
the watt ratio of electrical power (final fuel) to gasoline (raw fuel) = 1:2
since gasoline otto type engines are 35% efficient at best.
16954 watt (raw fuel) to produce 3730 watt electrical = 3.5hour run time 5hp (el) motor= 59339 watt (raw fuel) to operate 3.5 hours (power plant 22% efficient with 78% heat losses)
so unless you are operating on a wind mill or a wood gasifier to produce your electrical power to run your mixers. It is producing more emissions utilizing electrical grid power (coal fired power plants 22% vs 78% waste) than using a regular gasoline engine 35% efficient.
I know i went to far with this simple question just thought it might be interesting to somebody lol.
--
Please check out my website, it shows one alternative for us to learn how to built your own power supply.
It is a self cycling biomass gasification process utilizing a combined heat and power (CHP) approach with grass clippings and woodgas to power your home.
www.OneAlternative.US
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
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Re: [papercreters] Tow Mixer Gas Milage Competition
If your tow vehicle was built in the last 30 years you will be very sorry it you fill it to the brim. I am forgetting what it is called but the system that lets vapors out of your tank will fill up with the fuel then there will be a vapor build up and suddenly you will not be able to put much gas in your vehicle. Every time you keep going after the pump says it is full just to round up to the next dollar a little gas gets in there where it does not belong. My mechanic friend just a month ago was telling me about getting in three of those in a single week. Alan in Michigan --- On Sat, 1/5/13, JayH <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
|
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[papercreters] Tow Mixer Gas Milage Competition
Dan's post got me thinking.
Has anyone ever attempted to measure precisely how much gas they burned while towing a papercrete tow mixer?
Just in case someone is uncertain how to measure it, here is one very simple method for measuring it. (There are probably a dozen different methods to go about this. I'm only listing this one because it requires no particularly special equipment and fairly is simple to do.)
1. Fill up the gas tank of your tow vehicle at the nearest gas station.
2. Drive to your worksite.
3. Top up the gas tank of your tow vehicle to the very brim using a gas can.
4. Attach your tow mixer and mix several loads (the more loads, the more reliable your data will be.)
5. If your gas can has an accurate volume scale that shows how much gas is in it, note how much is in it. If not, weigh your gas can on a bathroom scales.
6. Top up your tow vehicle gas tank to the very brim using the gas can after having mixed papercrete.
7. Note how much gas is still left in your gas can.
8. Subtract the amount of gas you recorded in Step 7 from the amount of gas you recorded in Step 5. This difference is the total amount of gas used. Gasoline weighs around 6lbs per gallon depending upon the temperature (using United States gallons).
9. Divide result of Step 8 of gas by the number of mixer loads to get gallons per mixer load.
10. Report the results of your measurement to the rest of us on Papercreters BY RESPONDING TO THIS POST, OR BY including "MIXER GAS MILAGE" in the subject of your post. (Everyone using these words in the subject will make it easy to look up everyone's results for comparison in the future.)
Whoever performs and reports this measurement first to the group will receive a hero's thanks. They will be a trailblazer. The trend setter. A true leader worthy of love and admiration by all.
If multiple people report their results, whoever mixes the most papercrete with the least amount of gas, will be recognized as the "Most Efficient Papercreter Mixer" record holder.
Yes... bragging rights are on the line.
Do you think you have what it takes to be the best? PROVE IT!
The record holder of this never ending competition can expect flowers thrown at their feet when they walk into the room. People will flock to get your autograph. Songs will be written about you. Offers of marriage... romantic rendezvous... ticker tape parades... adulations from across the globe... all can be yours.
What? Did I go too far? Yeah... probably so.
Okay... maybe I can't guarantee all that fame and fortune stuff. In fact I can almost guarantee you'll get hardly any of that.
However, I am more than willing to document the record holder on the Papercreters home page for all to see and appreciate.
I think it would be fun to see how much energy is required by different mixer designs, different methods, different power sources, as well as different types of papercrete mix.
Remember, only one Papercreter can be first to post their measurement. That is a distinction that nobody will ever take from you. Everyone remembers Neil Armstrong because he was first to step on the Moon. A lot fewer remember Buzz.
Put yourself along side Neil Armstrong. Be the first to report your Papercrete mixer gas milage.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "danclarke95076" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm collecting parts for a tow mixed but mindful of the energy ( cost of gas ) to tow it around,
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