Wednesday, July 25, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Re: looking for small batch recipe help



In general you use plenty of water to make it easy to mix. The extra water drains away and leaves most of the cement in the pulp. The water is usually clear as it drains away. If you are mixing in a blender it is good to add the cement to the pulp by hand outside of the blender.

spaceman

On 7/25/2012 9:49 AM, Sohain Naseer wrote:
hello Ron.
i am an UG student, working on research paper on papercrete, as you wrote that you had make a small batch in your class room for scientific testing, and you use the mix design as 3:1, can you tell me that what amount of water you use for this sample.
SOHAIB NASEER 


From: liberty1_27606 <liberty1@gmail.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 9 July 2012 8:00 AM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: looking for small batch recipe help

 


Vickey,

I have no direct suggestions about the mix for you, but I will be doing some similar projects and have thought of a concern you may have.. I think it would be best for both of us if we used weighing to proportioning our ingredients. For people building massive structures, measuring ingredients by volume is close enough. I want to be confident that the test batches I make can be extrapolated to larger projects. You want to make sure that each batch you make is the same as the last and will be as pleasing to your customers. So we both need to make sure that our batches are reproducible. We both need the extra accuracy that weighing can give us.

I plan to use this scale:

<http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-held-digital-scale-97227.html>

It has tare capability, weighs up to 45 Lbs., is small, and is flexible.

This scale is on sale, but is less flexible and only weighs up to one kilogram.

<http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-gram-digital-scale-97920.html>

(After you prove your process, you may want a more durable scale than Harbor Freight.)

Bobby

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "kjtbeskimo" <vickeym@...> wrote:
>
> Have been searching messages and every search term I can think of but have not found anything specific. We are newbies getting ready for our first attempt.
>
> Our paper is all shredded to little bits using a cross cut paper shredder. We have our drill and mixer blade, a bag of sand and will be getting portland cement soon. (had to buy sand as ours is still buried under snow.
>
> We want to make stepping stones and wall plaques for our store. Looking for as lightweight as possible that will still be durable enough for the intended use. (Need lightweight for shipping, we deal mostly with tourists.) But we are trying to find a recipe suitable for this and small enough to mix in a 5 gallon bucket for now.
>
> We still have 4 or 5 feet of heavily compressed snow on the ground here, and too cold still to do much outside. Days are finally getting around 30 degrees but nights are around 0 and even below 0 some nights. So larger projects and building our tow behind will not be happening for awhile yet.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion for a recipe for stepping stones and or wall plaques they can recommend. Have found several recipes in the messages I have searched, but not sure which is suitable for which purposes. I know the stepping stones need to be stronger than the wall plaques but would appreciate any suggestions from those who have actually made papercrete.
>
> Vickey in Alaska
>



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[papercreters] Re: S blade- vs McCains Scissor blade [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from Charmaine Taylor included below]

Hi Alan,  years ago the making of an S blade was a long and unsuccessful process with each person reinventing the wheel, and many had systems that didn't work after all the expense ($300 was an average cost as I recall)

Mike McCain went on to  create a very simple chopper system for  drums, and showed it in his vdieo... {no longer avail, I am trying to get it into DVD format,}   A friend bought a set of these  blades made from simple welded angle iron and big screws. I took pics of it disassembled. 

Will try to explain:
It has a W shaped base of  3 welded angle iron pieces about 12" tall with a  bottom cross piece. Short pipe is also welded to the 3 angle iron tops that a metal rod passes thru.

 I called it a "scissor blade" because the short cutting  pieces swept past the fixed  W   like scissor blades do to cut.

then 2 short pieces each of angle iron are welded  to a pipe piece with a hole for a bolt to pass thru to grip a  solid rod. the  W lays  across the bottom of a drum,  the short pieces sit between the  W to spin  and when tied to a power source the short  pieces spun independently and chopped an entire drum full in  less than 2 minutes.  Mike stopped selling the  blade sets, he was too busy on bigger projects, and he encouraged others to just build their own.     I know someone with a little skill could have them made. 

May I attach   photos to this email? if not will try an upload to the  folder.

--
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com
 

Attachment(s) from Charmaine Taylor

1 of 1 Photo(s)


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Re: [papercreters] Re: looking for small batch recipe help



hello Ron.
i am an UG student, working on research paper on papercrete, as you wrote that you had make a small batch in your class room for scientific testing, and you use the mix design as 3:1, can you tell me that what amount of water you use for this sample.
SOHAIB NASEER 


From: liberty1_27606 <liberty1@gmail.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 9 July 2012 8:00 AM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: looking for small batch recipe help

 


Vickey,

I have no direct suggestions about the mix for you, but I will be doing some similar projects and have thought of a concern you may have.. I think it would be best for both of us if we used weighing to proportioning our ingredients. For people building massive structures, measuring ingredients by volume is close enough. I want to be confident that the test batches I make can be extrapolated to larger projects. You want to make sure that each batch you make is the same as the last and will be as pleasing to your customers. So we both need to make sure that our batches are reproducible. We both need the extra accuracy that weighing can give us.

I plan to use this scale:

<http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-held-digital-scale-97227.html>

It has tare capability, weighs up to 45 Lbs., is small, and is flexible.

This scale is on sale, but is less flexible and only weighs up to one kilogram.

<http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-gram-digital-scale-97920.html>

(After you prove your process, you may want a more durable scale than Harbor Freight.)

Bobby

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "kjtbeskimo" <vickeym@...> wrote:
>
> Have been searching messages and every search term I can think of but have not found anything specific. We are newbies getting ready for our first attempt.
>
> Our paper is all shredded to little bits using a cross cut paper shredder. We have our drill and mixer blade, a bag of sand and will be getting portland cement soon. (had to buy sand as ours is still buried under snow.
>
> We want to make stepping stones and wall plaques for our store. Looking for as lightweight as possible that will still be durable enough for the intended use. (Need lightweight for shipping, we deal mostly with tourists.) But we are trying to find a recipe suitable for this and small enough to mix in a 5 gallon bucket for now.
>
> We still have 4 or 5 feet of heavily compressed snow on the ground here, and too cold still to do much outside. Days are finally getting around 30 degrees but nights are around 0 and even below 0 some nights. So larger projects and building our tow behind will not be happening for awhile yet.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion for a recipe for stepping stones and or wall plaques they can recommend. Have found several recipes in the messages I have searched, but not sure which is suitable for which purposes. I know the stepping stones need to be stronger than the wall plaques but would appreciate any suggestions from those who have actually made papercrete.
>
> Vickey in Alaska
>





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Tuesday, July 24, 2012

Re: [papercreters] pannels



I have made panels just a couple of inches thick but they do have a tendency to bow. Garden mesh would be better than plywood, you want maximum drainage.

spaceman

On 7/24/2012 9:26 PM, michael joyce wrote:
I am looking to make 8' wall panels and was wondering what was the thinnest you could make them and not be breakable, no structural support just for walls.  Also wanted to know what to put under the pour, just garden mesh or plywood bottom.     Am building mixer with fiberglass tank will send pics when done.   Thanks Michael     south TX.

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[papercreters] pannels



I am looking to make 8' wall panels and was wondering what was the thinnest you could make them and not be breakable, no structural support just for walls.  Also wanted to know what to put under the pour, just garden mesh or plywood bottom.     Am building mixer with fiberglass tank will send pics when done.   Thanks Michael     south TX.


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Re: [papercreters] Fire proof???? Slip Form Follow-up Question



Calle, so sorry to hear about this. The wild fires are getting worse, and so many have lost all.

I know you put your heart and soul into your homestead.

spaceman

On 7/24/2012 5:39 PM, calle vallede wrote:

Hi All
 
We lost all in the range fire in Nebraska Sandhills, now wondering if we will ever build above ground again. 
 
It is now headed toward Valentine and it is 112 here today. 
 
They will not allow us in yet so we will never know if our kitties made it or not.
 
Our earth bag cellar is maybe workable, but I do not want to build in that spot again.
 
It melted our canoe it burned under our storage units and I lost all of my Dad's cowboy/RR museum and all of my heritage.
 
We are just sick and our insuance is being jerks. 
 
Trying to find my husband a place to live as right now without water, with out fences and with out the fire being gone we can not go back out.
 
Please pray for rain and for the firefighters as they labor in this intense heat.
 
I try to hit town and do an up date when i can. We are down by the river now and have no signal.
Last night we awakened at 3 am and the smoke was so bad, the fires are burning in so many different places and the canyons make it worse at they have a life all their own.
 
So we were going to start a paper crete house in the next year but now I am so scared that I am not sure what to do.
 
Calle

 


Dan,

(From reading others experience, not personal experience.)

To get the quick drying time, you will need to make small blocks. Maybe no more than 3 inches thick.

You will not be able to dry your roof elements in time, so to get the prototype built, you will need to use 2x4s, fiberglass insulation, tin roofing, etc for the roof. I hope to build a papercrete roof system, so I think that is possible, but it will require lengthy drying time.

I believe small blocks would work for the floor and walls. I believe that the floor would not be walkable, but could provide the R value you need. Maybe you could put down temporary boards to walk on when loading and unloading the kiln.

To improve the drainage from PC blocks, some people use shade cloth on the ground and then put the blocks on top. I would suggest trying 6" welded wire mesh, topped with 1" welded wire mesh, topped with two layers of shade cloth. (If you try something to improve drainage and drying, please let us know how it works. I am in a humid environment also and need to work out a way to dry blocks.)

Good luck. Please let us know what you try and what your results are.

Bobby

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "trendawareness" <trendlinesystems@...> wrote:
>
> In response to my earlier questions, the slip-forming proponents have indicated that it's the only way to make large blocks or wall units in a humid environment.
>
> My understanding is that a slip-formed wall unit will be usable within a day or two after the final layer has been poured.
>
> With that said, I've started to assemble some framework for my wall panels that I'll fill-in with papercrete using slip-forming techniques.
>
> But my project also requires highly insulated 5' L x 5' W x 1' H horizontally oriented panels.
>
> My question is, being in a humid environment, what's the best way to make a large, horizontal, papercrete component?
>
> Can I make them vertically using slip-forming techniques then roll it horizontally?
>
> If so, do I need to wait several weeks for the unit to dry, or being slip formed, can a unit be placed horizontally after a few days?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>

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Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5149 - Release Date: 07/23/12




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[papercreters] Fire proof???? Slip Form Follow-up Question




Hi All
 
We lost all in the range fire in Nebraska Sandhills, now wondering if we will ever build above ground again. 
 
It is now headed toward Valentine and it is 112 here today. 
 
They will not allow us in yet so we will never know if our kitties made it or not.
 
Our earth bag cellar is maybe workable, but I do not want to build in that spot again.
 
It melted our canoe it burned under our storage units and I lost all of my Dad's cowboy/RR museum and all of my heritage.
 
We are just sick and our insuance is being jerks. 
 
Trying to find my husband a place to live as right now without water, with out fences and with out the fire being gone we can not go back out.
 
Please pray for rain and for the firefighters as they labor in this intense heat.
 
I try to hit town and do an up date when i can. We are down by the river now and have no signal.
Last night we awakened at 3 am and the smoke was so bad, the fires are burning in so many different places and the canyons make it worse at they have a life all their own.
 
So we were going to start a paper crete house in the next year but now I am so scared that I am not sure what to do.
 
Calle

 


Dan,

(From reading others experience, not personal experience.)

To get the quick drying time, you will need to make small blocks. Maybe no more than 3 inches thick.

You will not be able to dry your roof elements in time, so to get the prototype built, you will need to use 2x4s, fiberglass insulation, tin roofing, etc for the roof. I hope to build a papercrete roof system, so I think that is possible, but it will require lengthy drying time.

I believe small blocks would work for the floor and walls. I believe that the floor would not be walkable, but could provide the R value you need. Maybe you could put down temporary boards to walk on when loading and unloading the kiln.

To improve the drainage from PC blocks, some people use shade cloth on the ground and then put the blocks on top. I would suggest trying 6" welded wire mesh, topped with 1" welded wire mesh, topped with two layers of shade cloth. (If you try something to improve drainage and drying, please let us know how it works. I am in a humid environment also and need to work out a way to dry blocks.)

Good luck. Please let us know what you try and what your results are.

Bobby

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "trendawareness" <trendlinesystems@...> wrote:
>
> In response to my earlier questions, the slip-forming proponents have indicated that it's the only way to make large blocks or wall units in a humid environment.
>
> My understanding is that a slip-formed wall unit will be usable within a day or two after the final layer has been poured.
>
> With that said, I've started to assemble some framework for my wall panels that I'll fill-in with papercrete using slip-forming techniques.
>
> But my project also requires highly insulated 5' L x 5' W x 1' H horizontally oriented panels.
>
> My question is, being in a humid environment, what's the best way to make a large, horizontal, papercrete component?
>
> Can I make them vertically using slip-forming techniques then roll it horizontally?
>
> If so, do I need to wait several weeks for the unit to dry, or being slip formed, can a unit be placed horizontally after a few days?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>



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