Papercreters

Sunday, September 30, 2007

Re: [papercreters] New Member Intro

Thank you for the welcome,Joyce. My wall hasn't gotten a whole lot farther. I wanted to be able to make it out of things that I had,here on the farm since, anything I pick up with my truck better be worth the gas it sucks up. When I looked at what was here for building, I had the poly bags, tons of baling twine, sand and manure. I use manure for all sorts of stuff but it doesn't stay put unless there are roots from something in it.... that happens all on its own if I don't plant something first. I've seeded our whole yard without buying any seeds at all. Not that it looks like much with the drought that's going on here. Anyhow, the manure is lighter than the sand but I believe that it's burnable, too and there's the issue of cleaning it. The drought business has taught me alot. Manure dries to a fine and compactable powder. That would make a great wall this year but most years, the water table here is just a little bit more than 2' so I'm thinking that, as available as it is, I'd better stick to the sand. Rock is hard to come by in this area and some people have used rubber rock and old car tires. I didn't want to do either. I've dug 6" below the ground level; drove rebar into the ground to make an outline then double layered thick plastic sheeting that I also have alot of in the trough and overhanging the edges alot. This gives the bags protection from the sun while I'm building and I can cut off the excess when I'm ready to cement the wall. That has me worried, too. This wall will be exposed to horse~housekeeping. You have shetlands. Mine are drafts and draft crosses and they either lean or scratch their butts on everything. I think I'd have a melt down if I put all of this work into a wall and one of them moved it. So. I'm stuck on the cement part. How much is enough to keep them from moving my wall?

Is one kind better than another??? All questions that hold up the wall building.

Clarissa

Joyce E <yz0ld0wl@ohiohills.com> wrote:

Hi Clarissa, and welcome! My project hasn't gotten much further than
the planning stage -- yet! -- but I am saving every single scrap of
paper, not letting DH burn any of it. Questions are always welcome; I
still have quite a few of my own! LOL! But mostly, I lurk...

:-) Joyce in SE Ohio

ElfNori wrote:
> Welcome, Clarissa! You must talk to Joyce, who is building papercrete
> domes for her Shetland stallions!
>
> ElfN
>
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I have tons of things to learn and am very excited to have found a
> group that has accomplished so much and embodies so much
> experience. I've experimented with some alternative structures for
> our horses and I was a considerable source of amusement to the
> local agricultural community until they saw that my structures
> were still standing after a round of 60mph winds and the second
> round. ...
>
>

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

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Re: [papercreters] Hi Newbie to the group... some insights?

I've been fascinated for a long time but you are light years ahead of me!!! I understand the cooling/fountain properties. That's a great idea to play with. What would constitute a 'thermal mass' short of bringing one of the draft horses into the house... My experiments have been geared first, to the horses and, second, to things that one small woman could move/manage on her own. It was the energy use and water consumption issues that finally made me decide that we were moving now, rather than waiting until I'm too old to implement any alternative technologies. This past summer I devised a really simple misting system that was a huge help with the smoke from the fires. We have 3 horses with COPD and I managed to not only relieve their breathing but to drop the temperature in their shelters by about 15 degrees. When I tried to divert water from the house for this purpose rather than running metered water during a drought, I found out that there are regulations against that. I'll go hunting info on thermal mass. Thanks.

Clarissa

D Gardner <dgardner1@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi,
I've been fascinated by alternative architectures and energies for a
long time --and I've taken classes in alternate energy (where we had
to build our own solar water heater, solar oven, and a few different
designs for parabolic solar cookers < in which the design probably
could have benefited from papercrete for the construction! >).

When my family and I lived in southern New Mexico, I devised a sort
of makeshift solar air-heater (using cardboard boxes, clear plastic
sheets, and black plastic garbage bags) that worked relatively well
(for a "prototype"). I wish I had gotten a picture of the thing
<sigh>.

Now I'm in the SF Bay Area of California.. different energy needs--
although I think the same solar air heater would work here.

I was thinking about the comments about the shades for your windows
(on the home being discussed in previous posts). Interesting.

Has anyone thought that you could have a "thermal mass" next to the
south-facing windows? During the winter days, sunlight would come in
and heat the thermal mass, which would later release the heat into
the living area after the sunset. (The windows could be curtained
with insulating material after sunset to keep the radiated heat
within the dwelling.) If a solar-powered (of course) fountain was
placed against the inside-facing side of the thermal mass, during
the summer this could run a sheet of soothing water over the thermal
mass... the resulting evaporation would cause a cooling effect for
those hot summer days. Ah well.. just theorizing here.

Regards,
Dave Gardner (aka "EditorDave")
http://www.squidoo.com/Energy_Independence/

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. __._,_.___

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[papercreters] Hi Newbie to the group... some insights?

Hi,
I've been fascinated by alternative architectures and energies for a
long time --and I've taken classes in alternate energy (where we had
to build our own solar water heater, solar oven, and a few different
designs for parabolic solar cookers < in which the design probably
could have benefited from papercrete for the construction! >).

When my family and I lived in southern New Mexico, I devised a sort
of makeshift solar air-heater (using cardboard boxes, clear plastic
sheets, and black plastic garbage bags) that worked relatively well
(for a "prototype"). I wish I had gotten a picture of the thing
<sigh>.

Now I'm in the SF Bay Area of California.. different energy needs--
although I think the same solar air heater would work here.

I was thinking about the comments about the shades for your windows
(on the home being discussed in previous posts). Interesting.

Has anyone thought that you could have a "thermal mass" next to the
south-facing windows? During the winter days, sunlight would come in
and heat the thermal mass, which would later release the heat into
the living area after the sunset. (The windows could be curtained
with insulating material after sunset to keep the radiated heat
within the dwelling.) If a solar-powered (of course) fountain was
placed against the inside-facing side of the thermal mass, during
the summer this could run a sheet of soothing water over the thermal
mass... the resulting evaporation would cause a cooling effect for
those hot summer days. Ah well.. just theorizing here.

Regards,
Dave Gardner (aka "EditorDave")
http://www.squidoo.com/Energy_Independence/

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Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

The correct link to the slideshow is:

http://www.desertwildlands.com/newmexico_list/23097_angel/index.htm

Neal

----- Original Message -----

From: cloud wall

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

I don't mind sharing where I'm at, at all, and I want to go look at those pushpins, too. I've just started putting up another portable shelter since it looks like we may well end up spending the winter here and will photograph as I build, since it's hard to see the important parts in the finished product. We are on the eastern NC/SC border, zip 28369, just outside a tiny town called Orrum, which may not be on the average map. Where we are hoping to go to is an even more remote town called Rodeo, NM 88056. That is where the papercrete house and workshop are. The first link below is what attracted me to the area (that I know almost nothing about yet) and the second link is to a slide show of the actual papercrete house. My daughter is still negotiating so I can't say that it is ours yet but I am sure hoping. I know that there is some kind of construction going on in the courtyard of the house. I learned that from looking at the Living in Paper info, thank you. I have no idea what is being built. One photo shows another adobe/papercrete structure in the distance. That is the workshop. I don't know who did the work. http://www.malpaiborderlandsgroup.org/ http://www.desertwildlands.com/newmexico_list/23097_angel/index.htm
I hope the links work. I'm fairly computer illiterate. Clarissa

slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'll add another hearty "welcome" to the chorus. Plus I'll echo the
sentiments others expressed for pictures.

Are you willing to share more specifics about where you are located?
It looks like we need to add another pushpin for your location on our
map in the Diagrams album in our photos section. (or more than one
for whatever other sites you know about.)

Don't be shy about telling us about the equipment you'll be using for
papercrete either.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "windwalkerwill"
<windwalkerwill@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I have tons of things to learn and am very excited to have found a
group
> that has accomplished so much and embodies so much experience. I've
> experimented with some alternative structures for our horses and I
was a
> considerable source of amusement to the local agricultural community
> until they saw that my structures were still standing after a round
of
> 60mph winds and the second round. While this was a far cry from a
> hurricane, I was very proud of my work. So far, we can safely house
10
> horses for about $2,000. and the structures are portable (not
taxable).
> I acquire 20 poly grain bags each week due to the horses and I have
> always been annoyed that there was no way to recycle them. Then I
> discovered bagged earth walls and am experimenting away...
> None of this research and experimenting though, helped me reach my
goal
> of living in a sustainable home and every month there is another
round
> of $300. utility bills. I decided that I didn't want to wait
forever and
> that, care taking for 20 creatures and an elderly mom probably
would not
> leave me much time to build that perfect home. Our area frowns on
> anything alternative, as well. We have finally located and begun
> negotiating to purchase an already started papercrete home in NM.
There
> is enough of a house to live in while I do all the horse related
(fence,
> barn, storage) building and even a papercrete workshop.
> I am not always good at technical things and am subject to
occasional
> blond moments but I can usually understand something after I've
plowed
> through it a few times.
> I'm looking forward to reading and learning and thank you all in
> advance. I doubt that I'll have a whole lot to contribute but I'm
sure
> to have a lot of questions.
> Clarissa
>

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Concrete Form Blocks

I don’t know why the message below says it’s from me because it’s not but I have to say Bavo!

Sounds like a very good system.

Janosh

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Conrad
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 6:35 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Concrete Form Blocks

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Janoahsh" <janoahsh@...> wrote:
To make the papercrete form blocks I pour papercrete into the
horizontal mold
3" thick and then poke in 9" pieces of chain link fence wire standing
uprite. The wire comes in a zig zag pattern and it dries into the
papercrete side. I then pour the hi mass side concrete or earth
plaster and push the exposed wires from the papercrete block into the
setting Hi Thermal Mass side. This gives me a papercrete exterior and
a plastered or concrete hi thermal storing wall inside. I do use
vernicle re bars in the middle (32" OC) and a 1/2" horizontal bar every
4' (2 in an 8' wall). The result is 9" of insulation outside and a 3"
high thermal mass inside. My homes already use insulated slab floors
with pex tubing for radiant heat. I either stucco or side the outside
for looks. I have had good luck with just painting the Stucco and have
not had any water problems. I build in North Dakota and Arizona.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

Then the lack of shading on the windows and doors may be a design feature, allowing the heat to be stored in the floor and walls for use at night. You might inquire.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: cloud wall

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

I hadn't even thought of that! Thanks. We have been broiled this summer and came close to being smoked and barbecued when forest fires came within a half mile of our farm and lingered for days. Cooked is definitely something to avoid. When we first found it,my mom said the desert is hot. When we went researching, the temps there have actually been milder than here, probably because of the altitude there and (in spite of the drought) humidity here.
Clarissa

ElfNori <elf@elfnori.com> wrote:

If I understand things correctly (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you will immediately need to figure out how to supply shade over the window and sliding glass door or you will COOK in the desert.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: cloud wall

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:51 AM

Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

I don't mind sharing where I'm at, at al, and I want to go look at those pushpins, too. I've just started putting up another portable shelter since it looks like we may well end up spending the winter here and will photograph as I build, since it's hard to see the important parts in the finished product. We are on the eastern NC/SC border, zip 28369, just outside a tiny town called Orrum, which may not be on the average map. Where we are hoping to go to is an even more remote town called Rodeo, NM 88056. That is where the papercrete house and workshop are. The first link below is what attracted me to the area (that I know almost nothing about yet) and the second link is to a slide show of the actual papercrete house. My daughter is still negotiating so I can't say that it is ours yet but I am sure hoping. I know that there is some kind of construction going on in the courtyard of the house. I learned that from looking at the Living in Paper info, thank you. I have no idea what is being built. One photo shows another adobe/papercrete structure in the distance. That is the workshop. I don't know who did the work. http://www.malpaiborderlandsgroup.org/ http://www.desertwildlands.com/newmexico_list/23097_angel/index.htm
I hope the links work. I'm fairly computer illiterate. Clarissa

slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'll add another hearty "welcome" to the chorus. Plus I'll echo the
sentiments others expressed for pictures.

Are you willing to share more specifics about where you are located?
It looks like we need to add another pushpin for your location on our
map in the Diagrams album in our photos section. (or more than one
for whatever other sites you know about.)

Don't be shy about telling us about the equipment you'll be using for
papercrete either.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "windwalkerwill"
<windwalkerwill@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I have tons of things to learn and am very excited to have found a
group
> that has accomplished so much and embodies so much experience. I've
> experimented with some alternative structures for our horses and I
was a
> considerable source of amusement to the local agricultural community
> until they saw that my structures were still standing after a round
of
> 60mph winds and the second round. While this was a far cry from a
> hurricane, I was very proud of my work. So far, we can safely house
10
> horses for about $2,000. and the structures are portable (not
taxable).
> I acquire 20 poly grain bags each week due to the horses and I have
> always been annoyed that there was no way to recycle them. Then I
> discovered bagged earth walls and am experimenting away...
> None of this research and experimenting though, helped me reach my
goal
> of living in a sustainable home and every month there is another
round
> of $300. utility bills. I decided that I didn't want to wait
forever and
> that, care taking for 20 creatures and an elderly mom probably
would not
> leave me much time to build that perfect home. Our area frowns on
> anything alternative, as well. We have finally located and begun
> negotiating to purchase an already started papercrete home in NM.
There
> is enough of a house to live in while I do all the horse related
(fence,
> barn, storage) building and even a papercrete workshop.
> I am not always good at technical things and am subject to
occasional
> blond moments but I can usually understand something after I've
plowed
> through it a few times.
> I'm looking forward to reading and learning and thank you all in
> advance. I doubt that I'll have a whole lot to contribute but I'm
sure
> to have a lot of questions.
> Clarissa
>

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

I hadn't even thought of that! Thanks. We have been broiled this summer and came close to being smoked and barbecued when forest fires came within a half mile of our farm and lingered for days. Cooked is definitely something to avoid. When we first found it,my mom said the desert is hot. When we went researching, the temps there have actually been milder than here, probably because of the altitude there and (in spite of the drought) humidity here.
Clarissa

ElfNori <elf@elfnori.com> wrote:

If I understand things correctly (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you will immediately need to figure out how to supply shade over the window and sliding glass door or you will COOK in the desert.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: cloud wall

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:51 AM

Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

I don't mind sharing where I'm at, at all, and I want to go look at those pushpins, too. I've just started putting up another portable shelter since it looks like we may well end up spending the winter here and will photograph as I build, since it's hard to see the important parts in the finished product. We are on the eastern NC/SC border, zip 28369, just outside a tiny town called Orrum, which may not be on the average map. Where we are hoping to go to is an even more remote town called Rodeo, NM 88056. That is where the papercrete house and workshop are. The first link below is what attracted me to the area (that I know almost nothing about yet) and the second link is to a slide show of the actual papercrete house. My daughter is still negotiating so I can't say that it is ours yet but I am sure hoping. I know that there is some kind of construction going on in the courtyard of the house. I learned that from looking at the Living in Paper info, thank you. I have no idea what is being built. One photo shows another adobe/papercrete structure in the distance. That is the workshop. I don't know who did the work. http://www.malpaiborderlandsgroup.org/ http://www.desertwildlands.com/newmexico_list/23097_angel/index.htm
I hope the links work. I'm fairly computer illiterate. Clarissa

slurryguy <slurryguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'll add another hearty "welcome" to the chorus. Plus I'll echo the
sentiments others expressed for pictures.

Are you willing to share more specifics about where you are located?
It looks like we need to add another pushpin for your location on our
map in the Diagrams album in our photos section. (or more than one
for whatever other sites you know about.)

Don't be shy about telling us about the equipment you'll be using for
papercrete either.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "windwalkerwill"
<windwalkerwill@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I have tons of things to learn and am very excited to have found a
group
> that has accomplished so much and embodies so much experience. I've
> experimented with some alternative structures for our horses and I
was a
> considerable source of amusement to the local agricultural community
> until they saw that my structures were still standing after a round
of
> 60mph winds and the second round. While this was a far cry from a
> hurricane, I was very proud of my work. So far, we can safely house
10
> horses for about $2,000. and the structures are portable (not
taxable).
> I acquire 20 poly grain bags each week due to the horses and I have
> always been annoyed that there was no way to recycle them. Then I
> discovered bagged earth walls and am experimenting away...
> None of this research and experimenting though, helped me reach my
goal
> of living in a sustainable home and every month there is another
round
> of $300. utility bills. I decided that I didn't want to wait
forever and
> that, care taking for 20 creatures and an elderly mom probably
would not
> leave me much time to build that perfect home. Our area frowns on
> anything alternative, as well. We have finally located and begun
> negotiating to purchase an already started papercrete home in NM.
There
> is enough of a house to live in while I do all the horse related
(fence,
> barn, storage) building and even a papercrete workshop.
> I am not always good at technical things and am subject to
occasional
> blond moments but I can usually understand something after I've
plowed
> through it a few times.
> I'm looking forward to reading and learning and thank you all in
> advance. I doubt that I'll have a whole lot to contribute but I'm
sure
> to have a lot of questions.
> Clarissa
>

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM

Clarissa
"He who holds, must first have discovered.
He who has discovered, must first have sought..."
~tale of y Chadee

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. __._,_.___

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Papercreters

Sunday, September 30, 2007

Re: [papercreters] New Member Intro

Re: [papercreters] Hi Newbie to the group... some insights?

[papercreters] Hi Newbie to the group... some insights?

Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete Concrete Form Blocks

Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

Re: [papercreters] Re: New Member Intro

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