Friday, November 14, 2014

Re: Re: [papercreters] hive



 If you google "black soap" you come up with a type of soap made in Africa "from the ash of locally harvested plants and barks such a plantain, cocoa pods, palm tree leaves, and shea tree bark. First the leaves and bark are sun-dried and then roasted in a kettle or pot at an even, constant temperature, which is important to ensure color, texture and smell. Then water and various oils - palm oil, coconut oil, palm kernel oil (including shea butter and cocoa pod powder) - are added to the mixture and stirred for at least a day. After that, the "soap" is left to set for two weeks to cure. "
 
 It would probably work in the flour paint, but dish soap seems easier.
 
Tom Hay, Ph.D.
A2B Research and Development, LLC
703/866-9585 (home office)
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On 11/14/14, claudebouzerand@yahoo.com [papercreters]<papercreters@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 

Hi Kim, Black soap is natural soap made with linseed oil , potassium and water ,without any other component.I wrote "black soap" beccause I didn't know the English word,sorry, but you can replace it with dish soap,it works ,too. My mother was so impressed with it that I began to paint ther shutters of my parents'farm....You can "Google" Swedish paint or flour paint for recipes. 



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Posted by: Tom Hay <tomhay@verizon.net>



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at 9:26 PM

[papercreters] Re: hive



Hi EO. This morning,in France I posted  some explanations for KIM,:my message doesn't appear. So I give you two links  for your questions:

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdemo.info%2FGardenBees%2FKTBH.html&ei=pgtmVLfhHcLaPJjHgYAL&usg=AFQjCNEyHY7UY2bTiGQfSXuj-3DuXDWYrg.
Here is the fist one which inspired me for my KTBH,but with the papercrete touch... 
and the second one about Swedish paint:
Flour Paint: An easy to prepare, non-toxic, long-lasting... and dirt cheap exterior homemade paint!

 

it's for +-10kg but it's easy to divide.
iron sulphate is a fongicid .It's good against moss,algaes,root and it's natural !

 Black soap,or liquid soap is an emulsifier,it helps for good mix of oil and water,here,for example

Hope it helps you
Cheers
Claude B.



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Posted by: claudebouzerand@yahoo.com



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at 8:26 AM

[papercreters] Re: hive



Hi ,here is a good recipe for the flour paint or swedish paint,it's for abput 10kg but you can divide it,as I did ,and it works well(very!) I used a little bit more of a kilo for my KTBH ...But after use,if you have some rest ,it's preferable to keep it in a close pot and in a fridge: It can ferment...


liquid soap is acting as emulsifier to keep a good mix :Water and oil,for example,here
Iron sulphate is a fungicid,It's natural and it's good against root,and moss .It protects paint and wood  or papercrete for long . Hope it will help you for your projects
I got good inspiration from this site:

 but with the papercrete touch !I tested the panels on a sunny day:papercrete was really fresher than the little wood frames wich surround the panels.Insulation of papercrete is dramatically better than wood ! I was really impressed
Cheers
Claude B.
 


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Posted by: claudebouzerand@yahoo.com



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at 8:09 AM

Thursday, November 13, 2014

[papercreters] Re: hive



Hi Claude,


i am just thinking about getting back to the beekeeping- i just got a library book on Australian Stingless Bees

as i live in an urban area- the papercrete hive looks really good. Could you please post the recipe for the

 Swedish paint? i am making a Guinea Pig cage with some papercrete infills and would like a non toxic

paint to use on the papercrete areas. 

I am curious  as to what 'natural color' you used, what 

Black Soap' is and what the role of  iron Sulphate might be in the recipe?

thanks for putting the pictures up- i will look into the KTBH design- there may be info on google?

cheers, eo






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Posted by: eogreensticks@gmail.com



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at 2:59 PM

Re: [papercreters] hive



Hi KIm,I re-read my second message and you must read DRIES rather than dies...! I' m sorry

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Posted by: claudebouzerand@yahoo.com



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at 11:19 AM

Re: [papercreters] hive



Hi Kim, Black soap is natural soap made with linseed oil , potassium and water ,without any other component.I wrote "black soap" beccause I didn't know the English word,sorry, but you can replace it with dish soap,it works ,too. My mother was so impressed with it that I began to paint ther shutters of my parents'farm....You can "Google" Swedish paint or flour paint for recipes. 

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Posted by: claudebouzerand@yahoo.com



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at 10:45 AM

Re: [papercreters] hive



Greetings,

I use lots of home made paint, but this one is new to me.  What is black soap?
Kim Travis PDC  The Rose Colored Forest  Bedias, Texas
On 11/12/2014 10:55 AM, claudebouzerand@yahoo.com [papercreters] wrote:
 

Hi, I posted some pics of my new KTBH (kenyan top bar hive) I discussed here some months ago...As you can see I tried to follow your advices:They perform well! thanks. For painting I used a homemade paint:The swedish paint made with flour,cooked in water then I added natural color,linseed oil ,some "black soap" and little iron sulfate .It's cheap and can last up to 10 years! and dies in one hour...




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Posted by: Kim Travis <gartht@windstream.net>



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at 8:31 AM

Wednesday, November 12, 2014

[papercreters] hive



Hi,some months ago I discussed of making a papercrete hive.here it is!(at last...) I followed your advices :some chicken wire on light wood frames,I worried about shrinking:it was so little about 1/16 an inch in some places,quickly filled with some putty.I painted itwith smedish paint.It's homemade paint with wheat flour,cooked with water,natural color,linseed oil some liquid soap,and iron sulfate as fungicide :it's simple,very cheap and it last up to 10 years .Thanks to papercreters ...



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Posted by: claudebouzerand@yahoo.com



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at 10:58 PM

[papercreters] hive



Hi, I posted some pics of my new KTBH (kenyan top bar hive) I discussed here some months ago...As you can see I tried to follow your advices:They perform well! thanks. For painting I used a homemade paint:The swedish paint made with flour,cooked in water then I added natural color,linseed oil ,some "black soap" and little iron sulfate .It's cheap and can last up to 10 years! and dies in one hour...



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Posted by: claudebouzerand@yahoo.com



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at 10:55 AM

Saturday, October 18, 2014

[papercreters] Re: papercrete by the teaspoon



If you soak the paper overnight before mixing it might mix easier using a mortar mixer, without needing to be shredded. 



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Posted by: "blazingsaddles@frontiernet.net" <blazingsaddles@frontiernet.net>



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at 6:58 AM

Friday, October 17, 2014

Re: [papercreters] Re: papercrete by the teaspoon



Greetings,
Good luck with your tow mixer, but long before 12 months are up, I will have my other mixer back up.  My problem is getting electric to where I want to work, which will be solved when this building is done, it houses my PV system.  Technically, it is half a building, the roof starts at the floor and goes up at a 45 degree angle, which is where the panels sit.  At least I have hubby home for now to help.
Kim Travis PDC  The Rose Colored Forest  Bedias, Texas
On 10/17/2014 1:55 PM, Murry Holley murry.holley@yahoo.com [papercreters] wrote:
 
Hello Kim:)
That is exciting news. Bu I know 5 gallons at a time will be a struggle. You might want to check with Harbor Freight. They have an electric mortar mixer ( +/- $100) that works good for pulping small batches . I was pulping 55 gallons at a time. It worked pretty good for that with shredded paper. I think some modification to the blade would help to cut the non-shredded paper.

I just picked up a Tow mixer from San Angelo but I am thinking it will be pretty busy for the next 12 months. I am in San Marcos depending on your schedule I might be able to help sometime after that.

Good luck with your project.

Best wishes
Murry Holley 



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Posted by: Kim Travis <gartht@windstream.net>



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at 4:38 PM

[papercreters] Re: papercrete by the teaspoon



Hello Kim:)
That is exciting news. Bu I know 5 gallons at a time will be a struggle. You might want to check with Harbor Freight. They have an electric mortar mixer ( +/- $100) that works good for pulping small batches . I was pulping 55 gallons at a time. It worked pretty good for that with shredded paper. I think some modification to the blade would help to cut the non-shredded paper.

I just picked up a Tow mixer from San Angelo but I am thinking it will be pretty busy for the next 12 months. I am in San Marcos depending on your schedule I might be able to help sometime after that.

Good luck with your project.

Best wishes
Murry Holley 


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Posted by: Murry Holley <murry.holley@yahoo.com>



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at 1:55 PM

[papercreters] papercrete by the teaspoon

Greetings,

Finally, we started to pour papercrete on a building yesterday. So many
stops and starts over the last fifteen years, that I had almost given
up. My big mixer that we designed a very long time ago is in the wrong
location and lost it power hook up three years ago when we put the road
in. Once this first building is up, we will move it and run it off our
new solar array to build the house, dairy parlor and a few other out
buildings that need doing.

I would love the big system, as this is going to be a lot of work, we
are pulping in 5 gallon buckets as we don't have anything on the farm
other than the big motor for the other system with any kind of power. I
just hope my drill survives this. Or, that someone close who has a tow
mixer would volunteer to lend it.

But, we have started. It feels good. And the design for the entire
farm is now done, so no more oops, I guess that should have gone there
times.

--
Kim Travis PDC
The Rose Colored Forest
Bedias, Texas


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Posted by: Kim Travis <gartht@windstream.net>
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at 5:45 AM

Thursday, October 16, 2014

[papercreters] Re: papercrete costs and coatings

Thanks to those who responded. I very much appreciate the info, it allowed me to realize that papercrete is not a suitable material for this application, and as a result, I was able to select the correct materials, concrete and pour molded HDPE.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD36FbRuTXcg6r5_Gxl0uXw/featured

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmiflwC72qk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X55eP5sUrA




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Posted by: Robert Nelson <terrafarminggenius@yahoo.com>
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at 12:00 PM

Friday, October 3, 2014

[papercreters] Re: papercrete costs and coatings



The papercrete in the grid of such small cross section will be prone to breaking. You might experiment with either wire reinforcement or maybe steel microfibers as an admix.

Might I suggest something really off the wall. How strong does the grid have to be? You might be able to use a sodium silicate C02 injection technique that is used in core and mold making. See http://www.svsu.edu/~rtuttle/FRG/HOWTOs/Sodium%20Silicate%20Coremaking.pdf  Now this material will still have a brittle nature but if you framed the grid for strength you might get by. But it would be stronger than papercrete in the cross sections you are aiming for.

JohnMc


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Posted by: john mcginnis <maruadventurer@gmail.com>



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at 7:49 PM

Wednesday, September 24, 2014

[papercreters] Clothing-Crete?



Eo, a great idea to dip and use old clothes….tons are dumped from thrift stores as we all have too much to ever even give away

.  some is sent by the  container load to poor countries where we see a mad mix of fashion on people too  destitute to buy anything.

So, I love the dipping in slurry idea, once covered with /crete or other plaster you can't tell.  also using a bamboo or other natural material that won't rust could work too,

There are those shelter roofs made of 'flying' angled canvas…they can cover a football field.  a few steel lines are  hung, then the fabric is tensioned over the  cables.  works as roof and wall.

or those who love geodesic dome shapes could slurry and lay fabric over.

--
Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Some people forget that their beliefs don't make them a better person. 
*Their behavior does*

"Have courage for the great sorrows of life and patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplised your daily task, go to sleep in peace. God is awake." 
(Victor Hugo, 1802-1885)
 
 


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Posted by: Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com>



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at 1:23 PM

[papercreters] Re: CONCRETE CLOTH SHELTERS



Hi,  i was experimenting with a similar idea and have had good results. essentially i used old clothes dipped in concrete slurry ( with some bondcrete in the mix) which i hung over the wires of ringlock fencing attached to a sturdy frame- when set, i used a papercrete render over the clothes layer. i also tried some using flat cloth, about 3 layers (seems natural fibre is best-poly cotton doesn't make the grade-old flannelette bed sheets ideal) but this was more labour intensive than the old clothes as i had to paint each piece before putting on the wires...the old clothes in slurry was quicker (though probably less economical use of the slurry...) and additionally, the complex surface presented by the clothes gave an excellent 'key' for the papercrete to stick to.(made short work of a sizable amount of laundry that moulded after a monster rain!) i have used the same idea to make planters, draping the cloth over a box, tub or whatever to the required size- in that case, i used flat cloth in squares that would fit a paint roller tray- 3 or 4 layers, when its set, render with papercrete, leave 3 weeks to cure and remove from the support.My next project was going to be  builders reo mesh but i haven't been able to get to that yet. I am still a little worried about rust expanding inside the structure and causing it to fail- i probably should have painted the reo before it rusted but too late now. the manufactured concrete cloth looks wonderful and 'easy' except that it is pricey and heavy- fairly 'man' work i should think? it would save alot of mixing! cheers, eo


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Posted by: eo greensticks <eogreensticks@gmail.com>



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at 12:09 AM

Sunday, September 21, 2014

[papercreters] CONCRETE CLOTH SHELTERS



Very ingenious use of cement impregnated cloth--a tent in a bag..water it, blow up. move in in <30 hours  then cover with layers of papercrete?

several kinds are shown in youtube vids

they show electric blowers, but in remote areas in emergency situations  delivering these heavy bags needing a lifter,  and  adding air, plus available water under pressure seems not as easy as they show.   there are no windows, only a door for ventilation, no light inside… the one god idea is covering with earth or foam/snow as insulation


no reason you couldn't buy long strips of cement cloth, lay over wire/metal frame and spray with a hose, plan windows, etc before setting the concrete.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb1pdvvoVoQ

--
Charmaine

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

Some people forget that their beliefs don't make them a better person. 
*Their behavior does*

"Have courage for the great sorrows of life and patience for the small ones. And when you have laboriously accomplised your daily task, go to sleep in peace. God is awake." 
(Victor Hugo, 1802-1885)
 
 


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Posted by: Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com>



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at 1:55 PM

Friday, September 19, 2014

[papercreters] Re: papercrete costs and coatings



No casting has been done yet, this is still in the design stage.

Thank you for your excellent constructive criticism regarding the draft angle and mold release, you are absolutely correct.

I had been thinking of using a 3D printer to make a negative of the grid positive mold, to cast numerous grid positive molds out of hard expanded foam, for a larger application of many acres using a very large number of pallets.  I think this approach will still work, but the grid positive mold would have to be made of latex rubber rather than expanded foam.

But for a smaller installation it makes more sense to use a router to add some draft angle.

I adapted this old pallet and box design to a very large scale implementation covering many acres, using a roughly 5% epoxy 75% hard expanded foam chop 20% sand mix instead of papercrete, and had planned on using this mix there, the costs versus longevity and structural integrity are much more favorable.

Epoxy:
$2,000.00 per ton is $0.0196773 per cubic inch
Hard expanded foam chop:
$2,000.00 per ton is $0.0000391 per cubic inch

However, I wanted to go back and redo the small 4 place box to give out something to the smaller producer, and update that ancient 4 place design with some of the newer elements to drop the price, like the arched removable walls and wall based manifolds to drop the cost.

Apparently, given your analysis of thinner papercrete castings, the 5% epoxy 75% hard expanded foam chop 20% sand mix would have to used there as well for the pallets instead of papercrete, but I still think that a papercrete box and floor is still the better choice for a small scale build like a 4 or 16 place box.

Therefore, the main info I still need would be the papercrete cost for the estimate and the cheap coating materials info.

5% epoxy 75% expanded foam chop 20% sand

 



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Posted by: terrafarminggenius@yahoo.com



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at 4:03 PM

[papercreters] Re: papercrete costs and coatings



Have you actually cast one of these yet?

I see some potential issues --

* The grid positive board. No draft angle on the individual squares. You might have problems getting it off the mold otherwise.

* Unless you are going to add a polyfiber admixture I don't know if this will hold together. Papercrete is a pretty brittle product in small cross sections.

Just some thoughts.


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Posted by: john mcginnis <maruadventurer@gmail.com>



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at 8:08 AM

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