Greetings,
Which is why frugal people buy in areas where there are no building
inspections or permits.
Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas
>
> Only problem for the clever frugal people with little money is they will
> not be able to build with PC if they can't afford an architecht or
> engineer to be able to get their modest structure approved by the
> building code people.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "There isn't much to
> be learned from this article, only another "green"
> couple spending way too much money per sq. ft. and using
> information on PC that has been written about for many years
> and implying that it is all new "
>
> Donald Miller..I agree.....The only advantage is
> that awareness is spread about this material for people
> to consider seriously.
> I agree the cost is prohibitive..I ran into so many
> people in the straw bale building world from 1999-2006 who
> built $400K SB houses..all of them wanting to be green, and
> "showing" others how to live..an oxymoronic goal
> as far as I could see..most people didnt have that money to
> spend on a 3500 sq ft SB monsterhouse full of art pieces
> ..but the magazines didn't make money showing little
> huts of SB either..who would advertise their fancy green
> products to known frugal types??
>
> same thing here, no one will be buying drywall,
> or $400 sink taps I think for t heir PC home, ..but the
> GOOD is that it opens people's awareness and as Ben
> Franklin said" it takes 12 times of exposure about a
> product or service for people to say" oh..this might be
> for me, I better look in to it" (paraphrased)
>
> the clever frugal types will catch on and learn
> more on their own.
>
> --
> Charmaine
>
> Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
> PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
>
> www.papercrete.com
> Robert
> Heinlein (1907-1988)
> "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay
> for what he does not want merely because you think it would
> be good for him." (Obamacare)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
------------------------------------
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Saturday, September 28, 2013
Re: [papercreters] patty/jack's $100 sg ft house
Re: [papercreters] patty/jack's $100 sg ft house
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/26/13, Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [papercreters] patty/jack's $100 sg ft house
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 26, 2013, 12:29 PM
Only problem for the clever frugal people with little money is they will not be able to build with PC if they can't afford an architecht or engineer to be able to get their modest structure approved by the building code people.
"There isn't much to
be learned from this article, only another "green"
couple spending way too much money per sq. ft. and using
information on PC that has been written about for many years
and implying that it is all new "
Donald Miller..I agree.....The only advantage is
that awareness is spread about this material for people
to consider seriously.
I agree the cost is prohibitive..I ran into so many
people in the straw bale building world from 1999-2006 who
built $400K SB houses..all of them wanting to be green, and
"showing" others how to live..an oxymoronic goal
as far as I could see..most people didnt have that money to
spend on a 3500 sq ft SB monsterhouse full of art pieces
..but the magazines didn't make money showing little
huts of SB either..who would advertise their fancy green
products to known frugal types??
same thing here, no one will be buying drywall,
or $400 sink taps I think for t heir PC home, ..but the
GOOD is that it opens people's awareness and as Ben
Franklin said" it takes 12 times of exposure about a
product or service for people to say" oh..this might be
for me, I better look in to it" (paraphrased)
the clever frugal types will catch on and learn
more on their own.
--
Charmaine
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com
Robert
Heinlein (1907-1988)
"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay
for what he does not want merely because you think it would
be good for him." (Obamacare)
------------------------------------
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Friday, September 27, 2013
Re: [papercreters] RE: Best way to use papercrete for roof insulation?
I wasn't trying to discourage you from using papercrete. If you were planning on casting your roof in place in a monolithic pour then your framing would have to support that weight anyway, and it isn't likely to ever weigh more than when you just mixed it. A few moisture sensors in strategic places under the sealing topcoat would be extra insurance against leaks.
A flat roof is about the least strong design and definitely prone to pools and leaks. You might want to look at barrel vaults or even a peaked roof that will cause runoff (into your rainwater harvesting system).
But, winter isn't far off and papercrete takes a while to dry, then you still have to seal it. Time is flying...
Looks like it might be prohibitively expensive to use papercrete for the roof. I still have several R-30 bags of fiberglass insulation taking up valuable storage space, maybe we'll just use that. Really don't like that stuff anymore, but at least it won't smash people,
Christine
At 09:04 AM 9/27/2013, you wrote:
Dry papercrete is light, less than 20# per cubic foot with a light mix. And yes, mix does make a difference. This light mix would put a load of 20# per square foot on your rafters if you used 1' thick panels. If you ever develop a leak (it happens) and the papercrete absorbs water (papercrete loves water) then it will get heavy fast and that live load goes way up. You should design for that weight, with a safety factor. You wouldn't want the roof to come crashing down onto your bed during a nice soothing rain. I would design for live load of 100# per cubic foot of papercrete to cover the possible weight of the absorbed water.
I am speaking from experience. A decade ago I had a roof that was papercrete cast in place and exposed to the air while it dried. I left town for a couple of days and the monsoon season hit early. That roof went from 40# per square foot to a calculated over 200# per square foot in a few hours. The framing was not designed for that and the roof met the floor. Luckily there was nobody in between.
On 9/26/2013 9:38 PM, christine@bayhouse.com wrote:
Already have another question, regarding WEIGHT.
We're good for 2".x 6" rafters according to the county span table, but how much does papercrete weigh? I suppose it depends somewhat on the mix and maybe we should try to add really light aggregate.
Â
---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <christine@...> wrote:
I've been in this group for years and FINALLY get to build again. We finished the foundation for our living room / greenhouse addition on Monday and will hopefully be framing in a few weeks.
We're using primarily adobe for the outside walls, are only framing for corners, doors, windows and the roof. We're using 20 ft rafters for a conventional "flat" roof covered with OSB, crickets and parapets.
I'd like to use papercrete to insulate the roof, but don't know whether it should go on top of the OSB or inside between the rafters.
I'm thinking it would be easiest if we made papercrete panels and screwed them to the OSB and then put the elastomeric with the fabric to waterproof it.   I'm afraid that if we pour the papercrete in place we'll end up with puddles and eventual leaks.
Also, eventually (when we have more cash), we'd like to add skylights or roof quality poly panels since we want to grow tomatoes and peppers etc. through winter in the addition. We're in NW AZ, lots of sunshine.
One problem is that I'd really like to waterproof the roof ASAP (before winter) and it would probably take months to make all the papercrete panels (it's a 32' x 20' addition)
So I suppose we could also make papercrete blocks to fit in between the rafters inside, like fiberglass insulation, but that makes it tough to add new water and electric lines and we always seem to change stuff. And of course you have to keep the papercrete in place (fight gravity) and it's tough to make them exactly the right size.
My partner would like to cover the rafters with wood for a ceiling, but I'm not sure where we'd get high quality lumber or panels that we can afford. Most of our materials like windows and doors are used.
We're buying a cement mixer from a neighbor and I'll start making some test blocks for over windows / doors where adobe is too heavy.   Was hoping we'd get a tow mixer, but that's just not happening.
I haven't had a whole lot of time to think this through and having never worked with papercrete, I appreciate any and all suggestions!
Thanks,
Christine
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6697 - Release Date: 09/25/13
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Re: [papercreters] RE: Best way to use papercrete for roof insulation?
Looks like it might be prohibitively expensive to use papercrete for the roof. I still have several R-30 bags of fiberglass insulation taking up valuable storage space, maybe we'll just use that. Really don't like that stuff anymore, but at least it won't smash people,
Christine
At 09:04 AM 9/27/2013, you wrote:
Dry papercrete is light, less than 20# per cubic foot with a light mix. And yes, mix does make a difference. This light mix would put a load of 20# per square foot on your rafters if you used 1' thick panels. If you ever develop a leak (it happens) and the papercrete absorbs water (papercrete loves water) then it will get heavy fast and that live load goes way up. You should design for that weight, with a safety factor. You wouldn't want the roof to come crashing down onto your bed during a nice soothing rain. I would design for live load of 100# per cubic foot of papercrete to cover the possible weight of the absorbed water.
I am speaking from experience. A decade ago I had a roof that was papercrete cast in place and exposed to the air while it dried. I left town for a couple of days and the monsoon season hit early. That roof went from 40# per square foot to a calculated over 200# per square foot in a few hours. The framing was not designed for that and the roof met the floor. Luckily there was nobody in between.
On 9/26/2013 9:38 PM, christine@bayhouse.com wrote:
Already have another question, regarding WEIGHT.
We're good for 2".x 6" rafters according to the county span table, but how much does papercrete weigh? I suppose it depends somewhat on the mix and maybe we should try to add really light aggregate.
Â
---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <christine@...> wrote:
I've been in this group for years and FINALLY get to build again. We finished the foundation for our living room / greenhouse addition on Monday and will hopefully be framing in a few weeks.
We're using primarily adobe for the outside walls, are only framing for corners, doors, windows and the roof. We're using 20 ft rafters for a conventional "flat" roof covered with OSB, crickets and parapets.
I'd like to use papercrete to insulate the roof, but don't know whether it should go on top of the OSB or inside between the rafters.
I'm thinking it would be easiest if we made papercrete panels and screwed them to the OSB and then put the elastomeric with the fabric to waterproof it.   I'm afraid that if we pour the papercrete in place we'll end up with puddles and eventual leaks.
Also, eventually (when we have more cash), we'd like to add skylights or roof quality poly panels since we want to grow tomatoes and peppers etc. through winter in the addition. We're in NW AZ, lots of sunshine.
One problem is that I'd really like to waterproof the roof ASAP (before winter) and it would probably take months to make all the papercrete panels (it's a 32' x 20' addition)
So I suppose we could also make papercrete blocks to fit in between the rafters inside, like fiberglass insulation, but that makes it tough to add new water and electric lines and we always seem to change stuff. And of course you have to keep the papercrete in place (fight gravity) and it's tough to make them exactly the right size.
My partner would like to cover the rafters with wood for a ceiling, but I'm not sure where we'd get high quality lumber or panels that we can afford. Most of our materials like windows and doors are used.
We're buying a cement mixer from a neighbor and I'll start making some test blocks for over windows / doors where adobe is too heavy.   Was hoping we'd get a tow mixer, but that's just not happening.
I haven't had a whole lot of time to think this through and having never worked with papercrete, I appreciate any and all suggestions!
Thanks,
Christine
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Re: [papercreters] RE: Best way to use papercrete for roof insulation?
Dry papercrete is light, less than 20# per cubic foot with a light mix. And yes, mix does make a difference. This light mix would put a load of 20# per square foot on your rafters if you used 1' thick panels. If you ever develop a leak (it happens) and the papercrete absorbs water (papercrete loves water) then it will get heavy fast and that live load goes way up. You should design for that weight, with a safety factor. You wouldn't want the roof to come crashing down onto your bed during a nice soothing rain. I would design for live load of 100# per cubic foot of papercrete to cover the possible weight of the absorbed water.
I am speaking from experience. A decade ago I had a roof that was papercrete cast in place and exposed to the air while it dried. I left town for a couple of days and the monsoon season hit early. That roof went from 40# per square foot to a calculated over 200# per square foot in a few hours. The framing was not designed for that and the roof met the floor. Luckily there was nobody in between.
Already have another question, regarding WEIGHT.
We're good for 2".x 6" rafters according to the county span table, but how much does papercrete weigh? I suppose it depends somewhat on the mix and maybe we should try to add really light aggregate.
---In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <christine@...> wrote:
I've been in this group for years and FINALLY get to build again. We finished the foundation for our living room / greenhouse addition on Monday and will hopefully be framing in a few weeks.
We're using primarily adobe for the outside walls, are only framing for corners, doors, windows and the roof. We're using 20 ft rafters for a conventional "flat" roof covered with OSB, crickets and parapets.
I'd like to use papercrete to insulate the roof, but don't know whether it should go on top of the OSB or inside between the rafters.
I'm thinking it would be easiest if we made papercrete panels and screwed them to the OSB and then put the elastomeric with the fabric to waterproof it. I'm afraid that if we pour the papercrete in place we'll end up with puddles and eventual leaks.
Also, eventually (when we have more cash), we'd like to add skylights or roof quality poly panels since we want to grow tomatoes and peppers etc. through winter in the addition. We're in NW AZ, lots of sunshine.
One problem is that I'd really like to waterproof the roof ASAP (before winter) and it would probably take months to make all the papercrete panels (it's a 32' x 20' addition)
So I suppose we could also make papercrete blocks to fit in between the rafters inside, like fiberglass insulation, but that makes it tough to add new water and electric lines and we always seem to change stuff. And of course you have to keep the papercrete in place (fight gravity) and it's tough to make them exactly the right size.
My partner would like to cover the rafters with wood for a ceiling, but I'm not sure where we'd get high quality lumber or panels that we can afford. Most of our materials like windows and doors are used.
We're buying a cement mixer from a neighbor and I'll start making some test blocks for over windows / doors where adobe is too heavy. Was hoping we'd get a tow mixer, but that's just not happening.
I haven't had a whole lot of time to think this through and having never worked with papercrete, I appreciate any and all suggestions!
Thanks,
ChristineNo virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6697 - Release Date: 09/25/13
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[papercreters] Re: She also said that as the papercrete needs to breathe???
Ever hear of a fan |
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