Papercreters: August 2012

Thursday, August 30, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Project

Though this used to be the bottom of Lake Otero, water now is down 400-500 feet, and not potable.

On 8/30/2012 6:12 PM, Alan wrote:

Around here we would never get away with burying tires like that.

How deep is it to water in your area?

I have all I need at 50 feet.

All of the other wells that are being added in this area are a lot deeper.

Alan in Michigan

--- On Thu, 8/30/12, spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Project
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012, 7:15 PM

This site surely has been slow lately. I hope all the slurry slingers are taking advantage of the warm temperatures and quick drying times.

My latest project involves filling lots of tires with dirt. A geodesic frame will be put on top, and this will be covered with papercrete a foot thick or more, sealed, then bermed. The dome will reach the surface, and a smaller dome will be placed over the top of it as an entry. This combined with the stairs makes the two required exits.

The floor is actually a foot lower than where the left Yeti is standing. We have needed lots of dirt for filling tires, and the floor is a great place to store it. About one more row of tires and then a concrete bond beam will finish the wall, ready for the shallow dome. This is a 360 degree panorama from the middle of the hole.

Here's the hole, and that wall of tires is about seven feet tall - to give some scale. The white is caliche, a low grade limestone, and most of the underground is encased in this. It was hard digging but worth it. The sides of the hole have eroded in the winds so it is actually a foot or two deeper than it appears. Where the small dome frame sits is the original grade and everything will be back filled to this level. That is the dome frame that will become an entry, it is 17' in diameter. In this area it is supposed to stay 68 degrees (F) year round at this depth, and even if we get a couple of degrees of additional warming in my lifetime it should still be bearable in this.

The stairs will continue to above ground level, with a cover building to prevent any water entry if we ever get rain again! Well, I've actually gotten almost an inch this year.

If you reply to this, be kind and delete the photos so they don't get sent back and forth to folks like me with slow connections. : )

spaceman

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5235 - Release Date: 08/30/12

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Just thought I d share my attempt.at mixing mud with wet paper and applying it to bird wire attaced to the sea cpntainer wall to make a tera cotta.effect. It looks,and works great

Sent from Samsung Mobile

spaceman wrote:

This site surely has been slow lately. I hope all the slurry slingers are taking advantage of the warm temperatures and quick drying times.

My latest project involves filling lots of tires with dirt. A geodesic frame will be put on top, and this will be covered with papercrete a foot thick or more, sealed, then bermed. The dome will reach the surface, and a smaller dome will be placed over the top of it as an entry. This combined with the stairs makes the two required exits.

The floor is actually a foot lower than where the left Yeti is standing. We have needed lots of dirt for filling tires, and the floor is a great place to store it. About one more row of tires and then a concrete bond beam will finish the wall, ready for the shallow dome. This is a 360 degree panorama from the middle of the hole.

Here's the hole, and that wall of tires is about seven feet tall - to give some scale. The white is caliche, a low grade limestone, and most of the underground is encased in this. It was hard digging but worth it. The sides of the hole have eroded in the winds so it is actually a foot or two deeper than it appears. Where the small dome frame sits is the original grade and everything will be back filled to this level. That is the dome frame that will become an entry, it is 17' in diameter. In this area it is supposed to stay 68 degrees (F) year round at this depth, and even if we get a couple of degrees of additional warming in my lifetime it should still be bearable in this.

The stairs will continue to above ground level, with a cover building to prevent any water entry if we ever get rain again! Well, I've actually gotten almost an inch this year.

If you reply to this, be kind and delete the photos so they don't get sent back and forth to folks like me with slow connections. : )

spaceman

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Project

Around here we would never get away with burying tires like that.

How deep is it to water in your area?

I have all I need at 50 feet.

All of the other wells that are being added in this area are a lot deeper.

Alan in Michigan

--- On Thu, 8/30/12, spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: [papercreters] Project
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012, 7:15 PM

This site surely has been slow lately. I hope all the slurry slingers are taking advantage of the warm temperatures and quick drying times.

My latest project involves filling lots of tires with dirt. A geodesic frame will be put on top, and this will be covered with papercrete a foot thick or more, sealed, then bermed. The dome will reach the surface, and a smaller dome will be placed over the top of it as an entry. This combined with the stairs makes the two required exits.

The floor is actually a foot lower than where the left Yeti is standing. We have needed lots of dirt for filling tires, and the floor is a great place to store it. About one more row of tires and then a concrete bond beam will finish the wall, ready for the shallow dome. This is a 360 degree panorama from the middle of the hole.

Here's the hole, and that wall of tires is about seven feet tall - to give some scale. The white is caliche, a low grade limestone, and most of the underground is encased in this. It was hard digging but worth it. The sides of the hole have eroded in the winds so it is actually a foot or two deeper than it appears. Where the small dome frame sits is the original grade and everything will be back filled to this level. That is the dome frame that will become an entry, it is 17' in diameter. In this area it is supposed to stay 68 degrees (F) year round at this depth, and even if we get a couple of degrees of additional warming in my lifetime it should still be bearable in this.

The stairs will continue to above ground level, with a cover building to prevent any water entry if we ever get rain again! Well, I've actually gotten almost an inch this year.

If you reply to this, be kind and delete the photos so they don't get sent back and forth to folks like me with slow connections. : )

spaceman

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Project

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Saturday, August 18, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Lime for plasters/renders

Excellent accounting- opinion is that if papercrete is made without sufficient Portland to insure that it is not incendiary, then it is probably dry. If made with sufficient Portland, yet no Pozzolan then it is probably wet. If with Portland and with Pozzolan then probably dry. The moisture content of the substrate will undoubtfully affect the behavior of the coatings.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 14, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com> wrote:

ahhhh mixing paper and lime is not a good thing to make thick blocks, I was replying about plastering OVER papercrete as the subject was about protecting the finished wall.   There is no reason to add lime to make papercrete itself.

to be very clear Lime needs AIR to cure, it will stay soft forever if kept covered under water, or sealed.

Lime when mixed with sand and water and fiber must be applied thinly as a plaster coating, when used as a mortar between bricks it can't be too thick either.   in old houses with the brick set deep into the wall the lime mortar is still soft after 60 years because AIR never reached it to harden fully. Lime will stay soft and never set up if not exposed to air, so you can't put a 3" coat on top a wall, this is why thin layers are done, with a month in between to let the lime cure in the presence of air.

It continues to get harder over decades but never goes over a couple hundred psi, where cement reaches over 2500 psi in 90 days.

In Italy hundreds of years ago families stored barrels of lime tightly covered, and when house repairs were needed, passed down father to son the lime was the same age, and same content/mix, same color, to match the walls.

In the US to repair the White House walls experts were needed to go find the same sand, and process the lime similarly so the lime render would look the same as the historical wall.    Modern Alt. builders are now keeping a few buckets of mix for the same reason.

the best way to use lime with paper is to make it be a plaster.

I have done my bathroom walls with shredded office paper* soaked in lime and water, and it comes out an 'old world' look, or it can look like cottage cheese, or like Mexican stucco. ( reminds me, in the US we say "stucco" we mean a "plaster," it is understood that stucco=cement coating while the Brits/Europeans say "render")

And cement processed IS mostly lime, but has clay (and other stuff) added so it has the reaction to set fast.

in the 1850s there were contests when cement was a new invention... brick layers would take pure lime mortar, and add 10% "cement" to hurry the set, then more, then more, as the need for building speed in a growing nation was important. ( Think of the thousands of brick buildings in NYC and the east coast as the population grew)   Cement helped set the bricks quickly, but it has a negative too. Finally we come to only 10% lime mixed into a cement to keep it "plastic" and workable.
--

* the Chinese paper lime recipe. It is applied by hand (gloved) and trowel for the texture you want'

Chinese recipe for Paper Lime plaster [interior use]

By WEIGHT-1 part (lb.) chopped/shredded paper-office paper

to 10 parts (lb.) soft lime putty (type N or S hydrated lime that was soaked in water 48 hours)

Mix well in large bin with tight lid. Seal lid. Let mellow 2-4 weeks.

To use: stir in 1/2-1 parts sharp sand to make more trowelable.
Fine sand gives smoother look, coarse a more stucco look. Mix with paint stem/paddle blade to make creamy..

Spread on wall by hand (always wear gloves) or trowel. Sculpt and let dry. Feather edges thin at stop points. Can be

limewashed; embed tiles while soft. Adding extra sand gives a stronger, more old world

plaster/mortar look .
Successfully applied to new and old drywall, and on particle board on

my work studio & on new greenboard on bathroom walls.

National Lime Assoc www.lime.org/

Pargeting-decorative lime www.kettlenet.co.uk/

US Parks Building articles: www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/presbhom.htm

Lime plaster on Straw Bales: http://solarhaven.org/Construction4Lime.htm

Tadelakt lime plaster- www.naturalpaint.com.au/

Building Conservation-Lime articles: www.buildingconservation.com/

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] (unknown)

look up Zach Rabon- Blox building system - Mason Greenstar- Mason, Texas. tell him Clyde sent you.

From: michael joyce <mojojoyce@yahoo.com>
To: "papercreters@yahoogroups.com" <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:41 AM
Subject: [papercreters] (unknown)

I am traveling towards Austin, Tx and wanted to know if anyone has done papercrete is in the surrounding area that I might visit some afternoon early next week. I would not mind going out of my way 70 miles or so. Looking to exchange ideas and learn what others have done. Michael. south Tx

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] (unknown)

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Tuesday, August 14, 2012

[papercreters] Lime for plasters/renders

ahhhh mixing paper and lime is not a good thing to make thick blocks, I was replying about plastering OVER papercrete as the subject was about protecting the finished wall.   There is no reason to add lime to make papercrete itself.

to be very clear Lime needs AIR to cure, it will stay soft forever if kept covered under water, or sealed.

Lime when mixed with sand and water and fiber must be applied thinly as a plaster coating, when used as a mortar between bricks it can't be too thick either.   in old houses with the brick set deep into the wall the lime mortar is still soft after 60 years because AIR never reached it to harden fully. Lime will stay soft and never set up if not exposed to air, so you can't put a 3" coat on top a wall, this is why thin layers are done, with a month in between to let the lime cure in the presence of air.

It continues to get harder over decades but never goes over a couple hundred psi, where cement reaches over 2500 psi in 90 days.

In Italy hundreds of years ago families stored barrels of lime tightly covered, and when house repairs were needed, passed down father to son the lime was the same age, and same content/mix, same color, to match the walls.

In the US to repair the White House walls experts were needed to go find the same sand, and process the lime similarly so the lime render would look the same as the historical wall.    Modern Alt. builders are now keeping a few buckets of mix for the same reason.

the best way to use lime with paper is to make it be a plaster.

I have done my bathroom walls with shredded office paper* soaked in lime and water, and it comes out an 'old world' look, or it can look like cottage cheese, or like Mexican stucco. ( reminds me, in the US we say "stucco" we mean a "plaster," it is understood that stucco=cement coating while the Brits/Europeans say "render")

And cement processed IS mostly lime, but has clay (and other stuff) added so it has the reaction to set fast.

in the 1850s there were contests when cement was a new invention... brick layers would take pure lime mortar, and add 10% "cement" to hurry the set, then more, then more, as the need for building speed in a growing nation was important. ( Think of the thousands of brick buildings in NYC and the east coast as the population grew)   Cement helped set the bricks quickly, but it has a negative too. Finally we come to only 10% lime mixed into a cement to keep it "plastic" and workable.
--

* the Chinese paper lime recipe. It is applied by hand (gloved) and trowel for the texture you want'

Chinese recipe for Paper Lime plaster [interior use]

By WEIGHT-1 part (lb.) chopped/shredded paper-office paper

to 10 parts (lb.) soft lime putty (type N or S hydrated lime that was soaked in water 48 hours)

Mix well in large bin with tight lid. Seal lid. Let mellow 2-4 weeks.

To use: stir in 1/2-1 parts sharp sand to make more trowelable.

Fine sand gives smoother look, coarse a more stucco look. Mix with paint stem/paddle blade to make creamy..

Spread on wall by hand (always wear gloves) or trowel. Sculpt and let dry. Feather edges thin at stop points. Can be

limewashed; embed tiles while soft. Adding extra sand gives a stronger, more old world

plaster/mortar look .

Successfully applied to new and old drywall, and on particle board on

my work studio & on new greenboard on bathroom walls.

National Lime Assoc www.lime.org/

Pargeting-decorative lime www.kettlenet.co.uk/

US Parks Building articles: www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/presbhom.htm

Lime plaster on Straw Bales: http://solarhaven.org/Construction4Lime.htm

Tadelakt lime plaster- www.naturalpaint.com.au/

Building Conservation-Lime articles: www.buildingconservation.com/

Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Definition of Lime render

We have been discussing how to treat walls for exterior exposure. I am not sure we are talking about the same thing.

Apparently lime render and lime plaster mean the same thing.

Wikipedia doesn't have much of an article, but it says: Lime render is a lime-based cementitious mix applied to the external surfaces of traditionally-built stone buildings. It allows the building to 'breathe' - as lime is porous, it allows for the collection and evaporation of moisture. Cement in contrast, an often applied render for stone buildings, traps moisture behind the stonework, which may result in the erosion of the stone masonry.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_render>

They did refer to:

<http://www.minervaconservation.com/articles/externallimerenders.html>

which seems to be a good article.

The following seems to be a good article, but it recommends adding cement and the video is poor quality.

<http://www.wikihow.com/Lime-Render-a-Wall>

--
Toward freedom,

Bobby Yates Emory

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Monday, August 13, 2012

RE: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

Donald, I second that emotion.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: donald1miller@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 21:12:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

Charmaine, it's good to see you contributing on this forum again. You have accumulated a tremendous amount of self sufficiency knowledge through the years and I have great respect for that knowledge and am glad to have you sharing it with us. A lot of the people who talk self sufficiency and green building/living want to drive $45,000.00 SUV's and build "green" 3500 sq. ft. houses for two people to occupy and get government rebates and grants to pay for a humongous solar panel setup so they can have every "modern" convienience known to man. That, in my book, is not self sufficiency but more self indulgence and consumerism that is causing a lot of the problems our country faces. Keep up the good work and give us more of your common sense knowledge and solutions.

.

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com>
Subject: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 6:51 PM

I said "In comparing lime plaster to cement plaster .."

I meant concrete... around here everyone always says 'cement' driveway or sidewalk, cement bricks, cement blocks, but we mean sand+ cement mixed together.

just wanna be clear
--
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

.

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Charmaine Taylor <charmainertaylor@gmail.com>
Subject: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 6:51 PM

I said "In comparing lime plaster to cement plaster .."

I meant concrete... around here everyone always says 'cement' driveway or sidewalk, cement bricks, cement blocks, but we mean sand+ cement mixed together.

just wanna be clear
--
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Definition of lime wash

We have been discussing how to treat walls for exterior exposure. I am not sure we are talking about the same thing.

Wikipedia says: Lime wash is pure slaked lime in water. (Whitewash is so similar that it is discussed in the same article.)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limewash>

For instruction on painting a brick wall (should be about the same for papercrete):

<http://www.ehow.com/how_8531783_limewash-bricks.html>

These instruction are for "rustic girls", but they probably will not mind if we use them:

<http://www.rusticgirls.com/how-to-lime-wash/>

I have no experience with this - those with experience, please add corrections.

--
Toward freedom,

Bobby Yates Emory

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

Simon,

Thanks for feedback and the experience of hundreds of years with a wet climate.

I gather that limewash has worked and is satisfactory, but requires annual reapplication (I think Charmaine said that in dryer climates, it did not need such frequent application).

I gather that line render (UK or lime plaster in the USA) is also satisfactory and requires less frequent reapplication.

I think we have a difference of opinion on latex or acrylic paint. Some people are satisfied but some are still concerned.

I seem to remember from a post on another group that in the UK, oil paint has been changed and is no longer like it was twenty years(?) ago. In the USA, we have a similar problem. Research and improvements continue on latex, but nothing is being done to improve oil paint. In the USA, arbitrary reductions in the amount of VOC have been made. Yet the manufacturers have not been doing the research to keep the performance of oil paint satisfactory with lowered VOC. That might be what happened to your oil paint. We both may have to start making our own to get the quality we need.

I am not sure we are talking about the same things so I will start threads about the definitions of lime wash and lime render (or lime plaster).

Bobby

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Simon Garrett <Sn.Garrett@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Leah , Clyde and Bobby,
>
> I am writing from Wales UK where we have long experience of building
> with lime and also a wet climate. Here traditionally buildings were
> built from stone and lime mortar (well into the last century); then
> limewash was applied on an annual basis (it's wet here!). The limewash
> protects the stone and mortar and over the years builds up into a
> beautiful smooth covering. Lime does not hold water, it is the most
> permeable commonly (and cheaply) available coating so while it does get
> wet it will dry out very quickly. Our old buildings were built without
> modern damp proof courses in walls and floors but most of the time if
> they are maintained they will stay dry and damp free. However if they
> are covered in anything non-permeable, for example cement render, they
> will almost certainly become damp: moisture still gets in but it can't
> get out. The same applies if latex, acrylic, or oil based paints are
> applied, they are not water permeable (at least the ones we have here in
> the UK aren't) so they trap moisture which will eventually build up
> enough pressure to break through.
>
> I must stress that I am talking about walls, i.e. more or less vertical
> surfaces, here so there's no possibility of puddling, and also the walls
> are themselves water permeable so they are different to a cementitious
> papercrete mix (although I think they would behave very much the same as
> a lime based papercrete).
>
> I hope this is at least a little useful!
>
> Simon.
>
> P.S. Someone mentioned lime plaster as an external coating: in the UK it
> would be called a lime render and it would definitely not need
> reapplying every two years; it should last for centuries!
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

I said "In comparing lime plaster to cement plaster .."

I meant concrete... around here everyone always says 'cement' driveway or sidewalk, cement bricks, cement blocks, but we mean sand+ cement mixed together.

just wanna be clear
--
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

I am aware of the attributes of properly applied lime plaster, still when lime is mixed with papercrete it does not dry quickly. Specificly one dome I constructed took two years to dry. Acrylic will breath and oil base will not. aGain my point was to run water away from the building and not allow it puddle. With papercrete I had the best results by actually using up the free lime from the Portland reaction with Pozzolan . The buildings with Pozzolan dried completely in six weeks.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 12, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Simon Garrett <Sn.Garrett@btinternet.com> wrote:

Hi Leah , Clyde and Bobby,

I am writing from Wales UK where we have long experience of building
with lime and also a wet climate. Here traditionally buildings were
built from stone and lime mortar (well into the last century); then
limewash was applied on an annual basis (it's wet here!). The limewash
protects the stone and mortar and over the years builds up into a
beautiful smooth covering. Lime does not hold water, it is the most
permeable commonly (and cheaply) available coating so while it does get
wet it will dry out very quickly. Our old buildings were built without
modern damp proof courses in walls and floors but most of the time if
they are maintained they will stay dry and damp free. However if they
are covered in anything non-permeable, for example cement render, they
will almost certainly become damp: moisture still gets in but it can't
get out. The same applies if latex, acrylic, or oil based paints are
applied, they are not water permeable (at least the ones we have here in
the UK aren't) so they trap moisture which will eventually build up
enough pressure to break through.

I must stress that I am talking about walls, i.e. more or less vertical
surfaces, here so there's no possibility of puddling, and also the walls
are themselves water permeable so they are different to a cementitious
papercrete mix (although I think they would behave very much the same as
a lime based papercrete).

I hope this is at least a little useful!

Simon.

P.S. Someone mentioned lime plaster as an external coating: in the UK it
would be called a lime render and it would definitely not need
reapplying every two years; it should last for centuries!

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Exterior covering (render)

Clyde you have far more experience building papercrete walls than me, are you in a dry area?

Simon, thanks for your comments. In the US nobody seems to use the word 'render'. but papercrete doesn't need to breathe-- it needs not to get wet and stay wet.

I'm in a very wet PacNW climate with fog more than sun and water is the enemy to building materials.

In comparing lime plaster to cement plaster the problem with cement is it holds the water a long time, in strawbale homes ( or cob, other) the water can soak into the bales and start rot before the cement dries out. With lime it allows water to stay within the exterior plaster, then quickly wicks moisture away.

that said a cement has 3000psi and can stand on its own once cured, where lime takes a long time to fully cure (especially if applied thick) where cement will cure fast. we like speed in our culture.

using paint may be the best/fastest/cheapest way to quickly protect the papercrete against weather.
I think the original papaercrete wall Eric Peterson built was only coated with layers of latex paint, and it held up ( still is prolly) for a decade

so wide variety of 'protective' coatings for various reasons of use.

and on top of that there is a dome home in OR, walls a foot+ thick, for mass, but inspectors forced owner to apply a blue foam insulation over that, then he had to affix a metal mesh to hold the gunnite concrete layer that covered the blue foam. the house was fine as it was, with in floor heat system, S facing windows, etc, but the rules said he had to use the foam too. It added many thousands of dollars of cost
--
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Sunday, August 12, 2012

[papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

Hi Leah , Clyde and Bobby,

I am writing from Wales UK where we have long experience of building
with lime and also a wet climate. Here traditionally buildings were
built from stone and lime mortar (well into the last century); then
limewash was applied on an annual basis (it's wet here!). The limewash
protects the stone and mortar and over the years builds up into a
beautiful smooth covering. Lime does not hold water, it is the most
permeable commonly (and cheaply) available coating so while it does get
wet it will dry out very quickly. Our old buildings were built without
modern damp proof courses in walls and floors but most of the time if
they are maintained they will stay dry and damp free. However if they
are covered in anything non-permeable, for example cement render, they
will almost certainly become damp: moisture still gets in but it can't
get out. The same applies if latex, acrylic, or oil based paints are
applied, they are not water permeable (at least the ones we have here in
the UK aren't) so they trap moisture which will eventually build up
enough pressure to break through.

I must stress that I am talking about walls, i.e. more or less vertical
surfaces, here so there's no possibility of puddling, and also the walls
are themselves water permeable so they are different to a cementitious
papercrete mix (although I think they would behave very much the same as
a lime based papercrete).

I hope this is at least a little useful!

Simon.

P.S. Someone mentioned lime plaster as an external coating: in the UK it
would be called a lime render and it would definitely not need
reapplying every two years; it should last for centuries!

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com
papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Saturday, August 11, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

I believe the opposite may be true, still check me on this - I believe latex acrylic formulation will breath well - all you have to do is paint it with acrylic - do not create situations of puddleing - the idea is to run the water off -here in the desert there is night time condensation so you definately want to run the water off - lime holds water and can create huge problems with papercrete - Clyde

From: liberty1_27606 <liberty1@gmail.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 4:01 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

Leah,

This is a difficult question. It sounds like it would be a good idea to put a waterproof cover over it. But if you do, the waterproof cover will hold any moisture inside the papercrete and it will mold, mildew, etc.

One approach is something like a lime plaster that will allow the moisture to pass through it. Unfortunately, you will have to re-apply every year or two.

Another approach is to put furring strips every foot or so to hold the covering away from the papercrete. Leave an opening at the top and bottom so air can circulate. I have not been able to think of an inexpensive way to do this.

I believe that oil based paints allow moisture to pass thru. Oil based paints cost more than latex, but it lasts longer when used on wood. If it will stick to papercrete and allow the papercrete to "breathe", it might be worth it.

Anyone with experience with any of these?

Bobby

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Leah" <tweetinleah@...> wrote:
>
> What is an inexpensive way to cover the outside of my house. I was thinking some kind of plastering, but I am lost.
> Thanks for any help.
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Friday, August 10, 2012

[papercreters] exterior covering

Hi Bobby, you are right lime will help but are mixing up a painted on lime wash with lime plaster. a wash isn't even done x2 years, it can be 5 or more years, but always safer to spray or paint on a thin coat when you think needed, and always more coats on the 'weather side' of a house where the most wind/rain prevailing weather hits it..

a lime plaster will last decades, and may be the best choice for long term and looks good too.
cement plaster may hold the rain water too long and soften the papercrete, causing spalling and failure if it stays wet too long.

Bobby said:
"One approach is something like a lime plaster that will allow the moisture to pass through it. Unfortunately, you will have to re-apply every year or two.

Anyone with experience with any of these?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
Charmaine Taylor/Publishing & Elk River Press
PO Box 375 Cutten CA 95534
www.papercrete.com

When injustice becomes law, then Rebellion becomes duty!
~~~Thomas Jefferson
Support & defend our immigration laws

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Papercreters

Thursday, August 30, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Project

Re: [papercreters] Project

Re: [papercreters] Project

[papercreters] Project

Saturday, August 18, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Lime for plasters/renders

Re: [papercreters] (unknown)

[papercreters] (unknown)

Tuesday, August 14, 2012

[papercreters] Lime for plasters/renders

[papercreters] Definition of Lime render

Monday, August 13, 2012

RE: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

Re: [papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

[papercreters] Definition of lime wash

[papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

[papercreters] cement/concrete- Exterior renders

Re: [papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

[papercreters] Exterior covering (render)

Sunday, August 12, 2012

[papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

Saturday, August 11, 2012

Re: [papercreters] Re: Exterior covering

Friday, August 10, 2012

[papercreters] exterior covering

Blog Archive

About Papercreters