Thanks, that was what I was angling for, a good tight fit that didn't require any nails, glues, or mortar.
Thanks, that was what I was angling for, a good tight fit that didn't require any nails, glues, or mortar.
Hoping for 16" to shrink and fit 14.5" seems very optimistic. I'd use a 14.5" wide mould, and either
a) once its shrunk, top it up. Or compress the blocks in the mould so they dnot shrink and you can turn them out after 1 minute.
b)If you compress the moulds 33%, you can then stack some blocks in the garage wall there and then, and leave the rest till they're drier.
Dont make life hard, make the blocks either right size or slightly less, so they go in effortlessly.
A weak mix is ok as insulation. Bug & mould resistance requires alkalinity, so you still need cement or lime. Cement behaves much better.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "trendawareness" <trendlinesystems@...> wrote:
>
> Ref. my December '11 post inquiring about slip forming, I'm ready to start insulating my attached garage with PC. This is non-living space and my goal is to reduce the summer and winter temperature extremes in my garage. I live near Cincinnati OH where we have 2 heating days for every 1 cooling day. January's average low is 19F and July's average high is 91F.
>
> But rather than worry about potential water damage caused by the run-off from slip forming, I'm leaning toward pouring 4' x 16" blocks the traditional way then placing them between the wall studs.
>
> My thinking is that if I pour a 16" wide block, allowing for the usual shrinkage, it should make for a snug fit in the 14.5" space between the studs. My plan is to use the same technique in the overhead attic space between the joists.
>
> Here's my questions for the group:
>
> (1) What's the suggested PC mix for non-load bearing PC? I'm looking for good R-values, yet bug & termite resistant, blocks.
>
> (2) To reduce the amount of cutting and sanding required, I was thinking about pressing the boards between the studs before they're fully dried, say 2-3 days after pouring the mix into the molds. Do you think this method would work?
>
> As always, any additional suggestions are welcome!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dan
>
> PS: One month later my paper (crete-less) weed mats around my shrubs are holding up well. The only weed growth has been in the gaps where the paper mat has pulled back from the landscape blocks. Even after a week of no rain, the mats are damp to the touch. So they're holding in the moisture quite well.
>
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If I were doing this, I would use very little portland cement, maybe even none. I would definitely add borax, like 20 Mule Team or 3 Elephants, at about 5% of the weight of the paper. With little or no portland cement the shrinkage will be more, so I would allow for that and plan on a final trim once the block has cured. I would make blocks 4" thick x 18" wide and perhaps 30" long. A final trim to 14.5x24 for a snug fit with few joints. With the relatively smooth edges from trimming there should be a tight mortarless fit and the blocks would be light enough to be installed by one person.
spaceman
On 4/28/2012 7:40 AM, trendawareness wrote:
Ref. my December '11 post inquiring about slip forming, I'm ready to start insulating my attached garage with PC. This is non-living space and my goal is to reduce the summer and winter temperature extremes in my garage. I live near Cincinnati OH where we have 2 heating days for every 1 cooling day. January's average low is 19F and July's average high is 91F. But rather than worry about potential water damage caused by the run-off from slip forming, I'm leaning toward pouring 4' x 16" blocks the traditional way then placing them between the wall studs. My thinking is that if I pour a 16" wide block, allowing for the usual shrinkage, it should make for a snug fit in the 14.5" space between the studs. My plan is to use the same technique in the overhead attic space between the joists. Here's my questions for the group: (1) What's the suggested PC mix for non-load bearing PC? I'm looking for good R-values, yet bug & termite resistant, blocks. (2) To reduce the amount of cutting and sanding required, I was thinking about pressing the boards between the studs before they're fully dried, say 2-3 days after pouring the mix into the molds. Do you think this method would work? As always, any additional suggestions are welcome! Thanks! Dan PS: One month later my paper (crete-less) weed mats around my shrubs are holding up well. The only weed growth has been in the gaps where the paper mat has pulled back from the landscape blocks. Even after a week of no rain, the mats are damp to the touch. So they're holding in the moisture quite well. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4963 - Release Date: 04/27/12
It's been quiet on the forums lately, but yes, I just got your post via my daily digest.
-Dan
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Bornofthehorses <bornofthehorses@...> wrote:
>
> Are your emails blogs or groups working?
>
>
> Ken
>
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Ref. my December '11 post inquiring about slip forming, I'm ready to start insulating my attached garage with PC. This is non-living space and my goal is to reduce the summer and winter temperature extremes in my garage. I live near Cincinnati OH where we have 2 heating days for every 1 cooling day. January's average low is 19F and July's average high is 91F.
But rather than worry about potential water damage caused by the run-off from slip forming, I'm leaning toward pouring 4' x 16" blocks the traditional way then placing them between the wall studs.
My thinking is that if I pour a 16" wide block, allowing for the usual shrinkage, it should make for a snug fit in the 14.5" space between the studs. My plan is to use the same technique in the overhead attic space between the joists.
Here's my questions for the group:
(1) What's the suggested PC mix for non-load bearing PC? I'm looking for good R-values, yet bug & termite resistant, blocks.
(2) To reduce the amount of cutting and sanding required, I was thinking about pressing the boards between the studs before they're fully dried, say 2-3 days after pouring the mix into the molds. Do you think this method would work?
As always, any additional suggestions are welcome!
Thanks!
Dan
PS: One month later my paper (crete-less) weed mats around my shrubs are holding up well. The only weed growth has been in the gaps where the paper mat has pulled back from the landscape blocks. Even after a week of no rain, the mats are damp to the touch. So they're holding in the moisture quite well.
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Thanks for the link Judith. We went to a free open-house at Cal-Earth years ago and had a great time. They've done some interesting stuff there.
Joel
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> http://calearth.org/shop/index.php?l=page_view&p=Unfilled-Superadobe-bag-rolls
>
> We were having a discussion a few weeks ago about using these filled with papercrete. Here's a link I got from Vertical Clay.
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
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Thank you all for your feedback.
Two weeks later my paper crete-less weed mats are holding up well. A little shrinkage, which is to be expected. I tried to upload new photos, but it looks like Yahoo is having server issues this morning, so I'll try the uploads again later.
To reply to the other comments:
>>termites<<
I thought of this too-- just after I finished a large bed next to my house. It's a good idea to keep wood piles away from your foundation as a means to discourage termites, so here I am pouring a barrel of paper slurry into my flower beds!
I'd think a natural additive such as Borax would help ward off the termites, but I need to research what that would do to the soil around the plants. Anyone have any ideas? Would adding a touch of portland to the mix change the "flavor" appreciably?
>>paper sources<<
My paper comes from family sources and one of their offices, so I'm confident it's "clean" as far as waste paper goes and has not been used in conjunction with toxins.
>> toxins in paper manufacturing <<
This is a tough one. I'd agree that if I made paper weed mats for my vegetable beds, I wouldn't want toxins from the paper processing leeching into my food.
But on the other hand, it appears that almost anything that touches our food these days is a potential source of contamination too, including "approved" pesticides, fertilizers, and cookware. Even "natural" sources, such as cow manure, could contain trace chemicals.
It reminds me of the larger "modern ways" versus "old ways" debate. Modern food processing and packaging can introduce new exposure risks, but without them we increase the risk of natural pathogens that we know to be hazardous to human health.
So where do we draw the line between "potential" risk and "probable" risk?
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>>would you prefer completely spam free but with delayed postings, or
would you prefer timely posts with an occasional spam
slipping through?<<
The occasional SPAM is harmless. I'd rather have the timely posts. If there's a massive SPAM outbreak, then you can revisit the issue.
Dan
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From: David Jungeblut <freightlimo@gmail.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Apr 15, 2012 01:53:34 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Spam - Request for SuggestionsKeeping EVERYTHING out would be a lot of work...
and since you're doing most of it I don't mind. ;-)
But seriously, I LOVE to see new post in my inbox and when I've been on the road for a couple days I buzz through all the other mail and save these for last to linger over. Like a really good cup of coffee after a perfect meal.
I'll take it any way it comes...
and thanks for all the time you put in.On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:49 PM, spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:
How about a little input from the active members - would you prefer completely spam free but with delayed postings, or would you prefer timely posts with an occasional spam slipping through?
That this is not a vote, it is a request for opinions and suggestions.
spaceman
Keeping EVERYTHING out would be a lot of work...
and since you're doing most of it I don't mind. ;-)
But seriously, I LOVE to see new post in my inbox and when I've been on the road for a couple days I buzz through all the other mail and save these for last to linger over. Like a really good cup of coffee after a perfect meal.
I'll take it any way it comes...
and thanks for all the time you put in.
How about a little input from the active members - would you prefer completely spam free but with delayed postings, or would you prefer timely posts with an occasional spam slipping through?
That this is not a vote, it is a request for opinions and suggestions.
spaceman
Why yes, it is. Unfortunately lately many yahoo email accounts have been compromised and used to post spam to groups. I don't think Pack did this, I think his account has been hacked. Regardless, the account is now moderated.
I don't see how to prevent these from slipping through since they come from accounts that have posted valid contributions to the group, older members who have been taken off moderation. Putting everyone on moderation might possibly work, but that would also mean that posts would be delayed until a moderator checks them. At the moment I seem to be the only active moderator and I've been offline a lot lately, so that might mean a delay of hours to days before a post shows up.
We have always striven to be spam free and managed to achieve that goal until just recently. With this new technique by the bad guys, being completely spam free may be technically impossible. Just don't follow any link without a valid description, and keep your shields up.
How about a little input from the active members - would you prefer completely spam free but with delayed postings, or would you prefer timely posts with an occasional spam slipping through?
That this is not a vote, it is a request for opinions and suggestions.
spaceman
On 4/14/2012 8:24 AM, valledecalle@yahoo.com wrote:
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
-----Original message-----
From: Pack McKibben <gakayaker@yahoo.com>
To: mdsflmk2304sdfsdfk@mail.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 14, 2012 14:16:27 GMT+00:00
Subject: [papercreters] RE:
wow this is pretty crazy you should check it out http://www.nbnews15.net/biz/?news=8891452
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4935 - Release Date: 04/13/12
From: Pack McKibben <gakayaker@yahoo.com>
To: mdsflmk2304sdfsdfk@mail.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 14, 2012 14:16:27 GMT+00:00
Subject: [papercreters] RE:
wow this is pretty crazy you should check it out http://www.nbnews15.net/biz/?news=8891452
wow this is pretty crazy you should check it out http://www.nbnews15.net/biz/?news=8891452
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Without knowing what approach your pelletiser is using its hard to say anything useful
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mciceteade" <mciceteade@...> wrote:
>
> I came across this forum when i found a video of a tow behind papercrete mixer since i have a extra transaxle of a spare riding mower laying around i thought i could build one of those for my riding mower.
> mix paper water and grass cuttings into a nice wet pulp and pelletize it much like my grass pellets i have made before. see at www.OneAlternative.us
> the problems i ran into making grass pellets they are just hard, to get the mixture right to get them to come out right. with my self built built pellet maker.
> so i thought i could make them in a more wet dough texture and get them more consistent this way.
> i was not planning on putting sand or concrete into the mix but since this tow behind got me going into this direction now i thought i could ask the question if some one has attempted to produce heating pellets before. i have seen people use paper pulp in a manual press. to make brickets for heating purposes.
> any input is appreciated.
> thanks so much for your help.
>
> We should all trust in backyard engineering
> remember the pro`s built the titanic.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@" <prrr@> wrote:
> >
> > I'd also stick with paper pulp rather than adding cement etc. Paper it burns well as writing sheets, but in bulk lump form its hard to light, and tends towards just slowly smouldering, ie the flame goes out unless you encourage it somehow. Paper's a perfectly good fuel ingredient if your burner can handle the high level of ash it produces.
> >
> > BTW cast paper pulp is very light & porous, but it does stick a bit.
> >
> > I dont know whether your wet process includes compressing the output material. Doing so squeezes the bulk of the water out, minimising drying time and risk of mould.
> >
> > If I used pellet heating I'd be inclined to include absolutely any waste stream in them that's safe to burn and of no other value.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mciceteade" <mciceteade@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > I have ran across this forum, in search for a diy paper pellet making, mainly for heating puposes.
> > > My personal project ( www.onealternative.us ) has used grass pellets in the past. I use sun dried grass add some used kitchen grease and water to pelletize my grass clippings. I was wondering about adding paper to the mix to increase the density of my pellets so they would stay together better instead of falling apart as easy. As well add some first lighting capability of the burner.
> > > Anyhow does anyone have experience in producing paper pellets for heating purposes?
> > > What are the incredience that you might have used before?
> > > Possibly some one could point me in the right direction.
> > > Thanks for your help
> > > Joe
> > >
> >
>
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I came across this forum when i found a video of a tow behind papercrete mixer since i have a extra transaxle of a spare riding mower laying around i thought i could build one of those for my riding mower.
mix paper water and grass cuttings into a nice wet pulp and pelletize it much like my grass pellets i have made before. see at www.OneAlternative.us
the problems i ran into making grass pellets they are just hard, to get the mixture right to get them to come out right. with my self built built pellet maker.
so i thought i could make them in a more wet dough texture and get them more consistent this way.
i was not planning on putting sand or concrete into the mix but since this tow behind got me going into this direction now i thought i could ask the question if some one has attempted to produce heating pellets before. i have seen people use paper pulp in a manual press. to make brickets for heating purposes.
any input is appreciated.
thanks so much for your help.
We should all trust in backyard engineering
remember the pro`s built the titanic.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@..." <prrr@...> wrote:
>
> I'd also stick with paper pulp rather than adding cement etc. Paper it burns well as writing sheets, but in bulk lump form its hard to light, and tends towards just slowly smouldering, ie the flame goes out unless you encourage it somehow. Paper's a perfectly good fuel ingredient if your burner can handle the high level of ash it produces.
>
> BTW cast paper pulp is very light & porous, but it does stick a bit.
>
> I dont know whether your wet process includes compressing the output material. Doing so squeezes the bulk of the water out, minimising drying time and risk of mould.
>
> If I used pellet heating I'd be inclined to include absolutely any waste stream in them that's safe to burn and of no other value.
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mciceteade" <mciceteade@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > I have ran across this forum, in search for a diy paper pellet making, mainly for heating puposes.
> > My personal project ( www.onealternative.us ) has used grass pellets in the past. I use sun dried grass add some used kitchen grease and water to pelletize my grass clippings. I was wondering about adding paper to the mix to increase the density of my pellets so they would stay together better instead of falling apart as easy. As well add some first lighting capability of the burner.
> > Anyhow does anyone have experience in producing paper pellets for heating purposes?
> > What are the incredience that you might have used before?
> > Possibly some one could point me in the right direction.
> > Thanks for your help
> > Joe
> >
>
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I'd also stick with paper pulp rather than adding cement etc. Paper it burns well as writing sheets, but in bulk lump form its hard to light, and tends towards just slowly smouldering, ie the flame goes out unless you encourage it somehow. Paper's a perfectly good fuel ingredient if your burner can handle the high level of ash it produces.
BTW cast paper pulp is very light & porous, but it does stick a bit.
I dont know whether your wet process includes compressing the output material. Doing so squeezes the bulk of the water out, minimising drying time and risk of mould.
If I used pellet heating I'd be inclined to include absolutely any waste stream in them that's safe to burn and of no other value.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "mciceteade" <mciceteade@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> I have ran across this forum, in search for a diy paper pellet making, mainly for heating puposes.
> My personal project ( www.onealternative.us ) has used grass pellets in the past. I use sun dried grass add some used kitchen grease and water to pelletize my grass clippings. I was wondering about adding paper to the mix to increase the density of my pellets so they would stay together better instead of falling apart as easy. As well add some first lighting capability of the burner.
> Anyhow does anyone have experience in producing paper pellets for heating purposes?
> What are the incredience that you might have used before?
> Possibly some one could point me in the right direction.
> Thanks for your help
> Joe
>
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| The point is that if the papercrete used as a mulch could leach dangerous toxins into the soil, then it stands to reason that the same toxins would leach into the water in the pulping process thereby ending up in the blocks/slipformed walls or whatever one would be making. If the excess water is allowed to drain onto the ground it is not unthinkable that it could eventually make it's way into the groundwater. The "what ifs" on this subject are endless and we could all wind up huddling in a "safe" dwelling sponsored and approved by Corporate America, which by the way, are loaded with very questionable materials and the resultant potential release of hazardous elements. --- On Wed, 4/11/12, Bornofthehorses <bornofthehorses@yahoo.com> wrote:
|
Papercrete would not work well at all, since it does not burn. Just paper pulp would probably work fine, though I have not done this. I did see several youtube videos in the past where paper pulp was pressed into briquettes for burning in a stove.
Definitely do not add portland cement or borax (or sand) to your pulp since they all suppress flame. After your pellets are thoroughly dry, a dip in melted paraffin (which would be readily absorbed) would probably make them easier to light.
spaceman
On 4/11/2012 4:47 PM, mciceteade wrote:
Hi I have ran across this forum, in search for a diy paper pellet making, mainly for heating puposes. My personal project ( www.onealternative.us ) has used grass pellets in the past. I use sun dried grass add some used kitchen grease and water to pelletize my grass clippings. I was wondering about adding paper to the mix to increase the density of my pellets so they would stay together better instead of falling apart as easy. As well add some first lighting capability of the burner. Anyhow does anyone have experience in producing paper pellets for heating purposes? What are the incredience that you might have used before? Possibly some one could point me in the right direction. Thanks for your help Joe ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4928 - Release Date: 04/11/12
Hi
I have ran across this forum, in search for a diy paper pellet making, mainly for heating puposes.
My personal project ( www.onealternative.us ) has used grass pellets in the past. I use sun dried grass add some used kitchen grease and water to pelletize my grass clippings. I was wondering about adding paper to the mix to increase the density of my pellets so they would stay together better instead of falling apart as easy. As well add some first lighting capability of the burner.
Anyhow does anyone have experience in producing paper pellets for heating purposes?
What are the incredience that you might have used before?
Possibly some one could point me in the right direction.
Thanks for your help
Joe
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Well, that wasn't necessarily aimed in your direction, just a reminder in general for everyone. It is easy to get caught up in a discussion and forget basic netiquette. I do the same thing, and then feel bad after I see the long post to which I only added a line or two : )
IMHO even an untrimmed post is better than no post!
2001
On 4/11/2012 2:11 PM, Flea Flier wrote:
WOW. I never thought of that. Maybe that's what he meant. Thanks. I will comply - on both counts.
