Papercreters: January 2008

Thursday, January 31, 2008

[papercreters] Re: Newbie in Alabama...

Thanks, Slurryguy, for the welcome!

Thanks, too, for the advice..and yes, I was actually referring to
building a raised planting bed but just called it the wrong thing. A
few more questions...but a bit of background.

I found my way to this group through the Gardenweb "hypertufa" group
after seeing an artist sculpt large pieces with styrofoam and
papercrete. I currently use a similar medium (Creative Paperclay,
for which I pay an exhorbitant amount and am getting at wholesale
prices--and it is still high) and method for sculpting small pieces
for inside decorations so was immediately intriqued with the possible
use of papercrete in outdoor settings. Also, the possibility of
making my own paperclay has now become a reality for me!

I started googling "papercrete" and then ended up here, now through
the first 900 posts and have already found a)lots of answers to
questions I had and b)lots of new "rabbits" to chase--"pozzolonic",
solar kilns, and homes built of this stuff. Sigh...I think I've died
and gone to heaven....

>>Was thrilled to learn that the major ingredient in my paperclay is
pozzolinic (volcanic ash) along with talc, water, wood pulp,
preservative.<<

I seem to be able to think of nothing else these days. I nearly
wrecked the car today while daydreaming if it was possible to use
the cool sprayer (that starts with a "T" that I can't think of the
word for right now) to spray papercrete on my brick ranch style house
for extra insulation, aesthetics, and just to be different.

Now the other questions...

1. If I had a resource for scrap styrofoam, could I "butter"
appropriately shaped pieces to use as faux "stone" for a dry stack
look for this garden adventure, placing these on the appropriate
bedding material, all appropriately sealed, of course. (I once left
one of my sculptures outside to go through a huge rainstorm after it
had been painted with acrylic paint and sealed with clear Krylon--it
was in perfect condition. It was a happy accident...)

2. Is it even FEASIBLE to consider papercrete (and finishing off with
appropriate sealers/finish) as something to spray onto an existing
brick exterior wall. If so, could it be sprayed directly (with
approriate ratio of cement) to make it stick without anything between
it and the brick?

I have really enjoyed reading about all the experiences you all have
had with this stuff and can't wait to go through the rest of the
posts.

And, now I think I know what I might do with an old laundry sink that
is behind my storage house....just need to rustle up an old garbage
disposal!

Thanks so much!

Penny

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Penny, welcome to the group.
>
> Sraight concrete would probably be a more long lasting material for
> your project. However, a papercrete mix rich in cement might be
> effective. The amount of foundation required depends upon how tall
> the retaining wall is. If you're just building a raised planting
bed
> 6" above grade, you don't need much. A packed gravel base under
the
> wall of a couple inches would be sufficient. If you are building
> something 2-3 feet tall, you'll need a much more robust foundation
> and a serious wall that can handle the lateral pressure.
>
> Papercrete isn't the most ideal material for exposed wet
> environments. It can be used, but expect it to deteriorate over
> time. Papercrete is a WOOD PRODUCT. Sealing it from moisture is
the
> best bet to slow deterioration.
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "pennymca13"
> <penpaloriginals2@> wrote:
> >
> > After stumbling into the world of papercrete this week, I've
become
> > quite excited about creating blocks to use as a low retaining
wall
> > around my garden area.
> >
> > Would I need to lay any sort of "foundation" for the blocks to
rest
> on
> > or can they go directly on the dirt/grass? We do have rather
humid
> > weather here most of the time though we are in a major drought
> right
> > now.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Penny, who is also dreaming of a way to build an art studio in
her
> back
> > yard with this stuff....
> >
>

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Pulp production

OR . . . What about a drain/lift bag . . . a bag made of sunscreen material
or a box made of porous material. Dump the mixer into the bag or box. Once
the excess water has drained out lift the bag or box above the form and open
the port at the bottom . . . You'd need a pump to get the drained water back
into the mixer for reuse, but it would be pretty easy to set up for a
stationary mixer. Either set the mixer up 4' in the air (loading issues) or
next to a pit in which the bag or box can be set. With a pit, a sump pump
can be used to get the water back into the mixer.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----
From: "ElfNori" <elf@elfnori.com>

> The chicken house is small enough I should be able to drain the mix and
> shovel it into my porous forms, no pumping required. I'm using 6 or 8"
> walls on the chicken house (compared to 8-10" on the pumphouse and 10-12"
on
> the house). It will be interesting to see how far a single mixer load
will
> go once all the water drains out. I'm thinking two loads will do the
walls
> and one load will do the roof.
>
> ElfN

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[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

It depends on how watery you make your mix. A good approximate number
that is easy to use is 10 gallons of undrained slurry yields about 1
cubic foot of dried cured papercrete.

YMMV

It can vary 100% easily, but that's a useful number to make guesses
with.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
It will be interesting to see how far a single mixer load will
> go once all the water drains out. I'm thinking two loads will do the
walls
> and one load will do the roof.
>
> ElfN
>

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Pulp production

I've been really lax in keeping my blog updated. Once I get started I'll
stay right on it. In the interim I need to go in and reorganize . . .

ElfN

----- Original Message -----
From: "slurryguy" <slurryguy@yahoo.com>

> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
> >
> I don't know how much the list wants to hear . . .
>
>
> Speaking for myself. MOST OF IT! Especially the papercrete parts. I
> know I'll be reading your blog.

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Pulp production

Mixer on a scissor lift! The shaft would protrude from the bottom of the
mixer and fit into the drive unit (tow mixer or pto). Fill and mix, then
scissor lift the tank to where you need it! OR, even better, lift the mixer
with the front end loader to where you need it, leaving the platform on the
ground. You're only lifting the mixer, not the trailer/drive unit.

I know our tractor (1954 John Deere 1010) will lift our propane tank when
full. That's about the same poundage as a full mixer less the trailer . . .

I think a pump would be safer/less fuss. Someone (forgive me for not paying
attention) mentioned (probably Mikey) 9hp 3" trash pump. Musta been Mickey.
With the suction side fastened to an outlet on the mixer, crank it on, pump
while tipping mixer . . . I know Tim Pye used a 3" 5hp Wacker for his house.

The chicken house is small enough I should be able to drain the mix and
shovel it into my porous forms, no pumping required. I'm using 6 or 8"
walls on the chicken house (compared to 8-10" on the pumphouse and 10-12" on
the house). It will be interesting to see how far a single mixer load will
go once all the water drains out. I'm thinking two loads will do the walls
and one load will do the roof.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----
From: "slurryguy" <slurryguy@yahoo.com>
> I don't know if the technique would be practical, but what about
> building an elevated mixer on a tall platform or strong scaffold?
>
> It would be awesome to be able to run a long trough just like they
> use with cement trucks. You could dump the slurry straight from the
> elevated mixer down the trough into the forms. The real trick would
> be powering the mixer. Maybe you could rig a long drive shaft from
> your tractor's pto?
>
> The only pumping would be a simple cheap water pump. IIRC you have a
> front end loader for your tractor that could do the lifting of the
> dry cement and dry paper.

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[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
>
I don't know how much the list wants to hear . . .

Speaking for myself. MOST OF IT! Especially the papercrete parts. I
know I'll be reading your blog.

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[papercreters] Re: Newbie in Alabama...

Hi Penny, welcome to the group.

Sraight concrete would probably be a more long lasting material for
your project. However, a papercrete mix rich in cement might be
effective. The amount of foundation required depends upon how tall
the retaining wall is. If you're just building a raised planting bed
6" above grade, you don't need much. A packed gravel base under the
wall of a couple inches would be sufficient. If you are building
something 2-3 feet tall, you'll need a much more robust foundation
and a serious wall that can handle the lateral pressure.

Papercrete isn't the most ideal material for exposed wet
environments. It can be used, but expect it to deteriorate over
time. Papercrete is a WOOD PRODUCT. Sealing it from moisture is the
best bet to slow deterioration.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "pennymca13"
<penpaloriginals2@...> wrote:
>
> After stumbling into the world of papercrete this week, I've become
> quite excited about creating blocks to use as a low retaining wall
> around my garden area.
>
> Would I need to lay any sort of "foundation" for the blocks to rest
on
> or can they go directly on the dirt/grass? We do have rather humid
> weather here most of the time though we are in a major drought
right
> now.
>
> TIA
>
> Penny, who is also dreaming of a way to build an art studio in her
back
> yard with this stuff....
>

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[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

Slurryguy is rambling nonsensically outside the box again. LOOK OUT
BELOW!

I don't know if the technique would be practical, but what about
building an elevated mixer on a tall platform or strong scaffold?

It would be awesome to be able to run a long trough just like they
use with cement trucks. You could dump the slurry straight from the
elevated mixer down the trough into the forms. The real trick would
be powering the mixer. Maybe you could rig a long drive shaft from
your tractor's pto?

The only pumping would be a simple cheap water pump. IIRC you have a
front end loader for your tractor that could do the lifting of the
dry cement and dry paper.

It would be a more complex construction to build the elevated
platform to be sure, but the big payoff is labor savings when you
dump the slurry into forms. I bet you could work really fast with
such a system.

I would highly recommend building the platform wide enough that there
is plenty of room for a walkway around the mixer and a strong railing
for safety.

Ok, now that I'm done rambling, feel free to go back to discussing
reality again.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
>
> You're absolutely right. The downside is it's difficult to get
plans to solidify because of all the possibilities.
>
> I'm using in-place porous forms. I need to be able to pour or pump
the mix into my forms. Alternately, I need to be able to drain the
mix, then dump it into the forms.
>
> ElfN
>

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[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

Nori makes a great point.

Everyone needs to do what is best for their own situation.

It makes perfect sense for her to use her tractor and whatever other
equipment she already has to best benefit. Tow mixers are a great
inexpensive tool that are hard to beat for the money, but not the only
answer.

Keep in mind that if using a different type of mixer saves labor for
your situation, that may be the best option. I'd rather spend an extra
couple of hundred bucks if it is going to save me a lot of work. That
extra money might be recovered at the end of the project by selling the
fancy schmancy mixer anyway.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ElfNori" <elf@...> wrote:
>
>
> Having a mixer that works for the location is important.
>

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[papercreters] Re: Very Close Call

Hi SG, I am a safety fanatic, and a chainsaw ops and safety
instructor.

This post points out something We need to do , and i will start it
soon. A thread on industrial safety.

Many of our memebers are not coming from a blue collar or industrial
situation, and have never been to a tailgate meeting.
*************************************************************

PC and alt construction are still construction, still lots of ways to
kill or maim yourself!

Today lessonette: ELECTRICAL SAFETY!!!!!!

Go check all your cords, check the ouytlet you use to mix from for
preoper groudn with a 3 light plug in outlet tester, wear DRY rubber
gloves, and ansi rated steel toed boots (for the mixer blade) boots
should also have an ANSI electrical hazard rating when working wet
around electricity. Using a GFI outlet might be a good idea too.

SAFETY FIRST "GO HOME" unhurt at the end of the day!!

**********************************************************

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" <slurryguy@...>
wrote:
>
> Wear heavy boots.
>
> Why?
>
> Did you hear someone shout a shocked, angry, chagrined, outburst
last
> night? It was probably me! "%$%!@% WHAT THE HECK????"
>
> I was using the bucket method to work with some slurry last night.
I
> had my drill spinning a blade in the bottom of a 5 gal bucket. The
> drill got going a little fast. I probably wasn't paying attention
as
> carefully as I should have been. The blade sliced right through
the
> side of the bucket, through the side of my heavy leather work boot,
> through my sock, and just nicked the skin of my foot. Nothing a
> little anteseptic and a bandaid wouldn't solve.
>
> There have been a few times I've performed that same procedure
while
> wearing old running shoes. If I had been wearing those shoes, I'd
> likely be on crutches right now. I'll never wear anything but
boots
> when working with papercrete from now on.
>
> I'm also going to dull the corners of my mixing blade a little to
> help keep it from slicing through a bucket like that again.
>
> I've inspected my buckets closely, 2 of them are very worn where
the
> blade tends to scrape the side of the bucket. I grabbed a can of
> spray paint and put a big X on the side. No more mixing slurry in
> worn buckets for me.
>
> Think boots make you look goofy? Not having too healthy feet when
> you could have easily kept them healthy would look far far goofier.
>
>
> Please learn from my near miss.
>

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Wednesday, January 30, 2008

[papercreters] ME News link

I know this has made the list at least once before, but for all the new members, it's a really good read.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/2000-04-01/Paper-Houses.aspx

ElfN

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Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

If you ask questions, I'll answer them. I've been thinking about this for quite a while, working toward building. I'll try and keep really good track of what I do and why, what works and what doesn't and post regular updates to the list with photos on my blog. I don't know how much the list wants to hear . . . but I'm definately willing to share.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: JUDITH WILLIAMS

I am excited about your project(s). I plan to do something similar soon and will learn from your experience.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

I am excited about your project(s). I plan to do something similar soon and will learn from your experience.

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: elf@elfnori.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:44:08 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

You're absolutely right. The downside is it's difficult to get plans to solidify because of all the possibilities.

I'm using in-place porous forms. I need to be able to pour or pump the mix into my forms. Alternately, I need to be able to drain the mix, then dump it into the forms.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: JUDITH WILLIAMS

It's by solving problems that we invent new and better things and methods.

Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! __._,_.___

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Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

You're absolutely right. The downside is it's difficult to get plans to solidify because of all the possibilities.

I'm using in-place porous forms. I need to be able to pour or pump the mix into my forms. Alternately, I need to be able to drain the mix, then dump it into the forms.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: JUDITH WILLIAMS

It's by solving problems that we invent new and better things and methods.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

YOur tilt bed truck sounds very promising. I've also heard of people shredding or otherwise pulping the paper and mixing it in a cement or mortar mixer. That's what Lex Terry did for the remote project out on the reservation. He made the ricecake blocks (using just the paper and water) then broke them up into the mixer and added the other ingredients. I suppose if you could "borrow" a level road you could do the same. Things always work out in the end. It's by solvong problems that we invent new and better things and methods.

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: elf@elfnori.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:32:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

From what I've seen in videos and pictures, you've got a lovely flat place. I don't. I'm on a hillside with a flat spot where the house will be and another flat spot where the pumphouse, barn and drive/parking are. Using the scheme you mention would require an old vehicle . . . and it makes the mixer stationary. I'm building in three different places in succession, so the ability to move the mixer is a must. I'm moving from the chicken house to the pumphouse to the people house. I could conceivably do the pumphouse and chicken house by centralling locating the mixer, but it would put it in the middle of the drive . . . picture Terry not happy. Picture the propane guy not happy . . . no circular driveway and nowhere to turn around if the weather has been wet. Not to mention the UPS guy.

Having a mixer that works for the location is important.

I have a non-operational 2 yard tilt-bed truck with hydraulics. If I were richer/smarter/knew more (or married to someone with mechanical aptitude) I'd get it repaired (starter solenoid, I think) and mount the mixer on the deck, using the hydraulic pto to run it. Then I could mix and move and dump without having to pump slurry. I could use the tractor bucket to load the mixer (bed's about 4' off the ground). That would rock. It would be just a bit pricier, but well worth the effort, I think. I may look at getting it to Gary to fix . . . I'll have to talk to Wad (Terry) about it. I'm thinking I would be spending most of my time keeping it running rather than mixing papercrete.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: JUDITH WILLIAMS

Some have made a tow mixer but run it in a stationary mode by attaching it to the axle of an old vehicle that doesn't move. Seems like a good idea to me.

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[papercreters] Newbie in Alabama...

After stumbling into the world of papercrete this week, I've become
quite excited about creating blocks to use as a low retaining wall
around my garden area.

Would I need to lay any sort of "foundation" for the blocks to rest on
or can they go directly on the dirt/grass? We do have rather humid
weather here most of the time though we are in a major drought right
now.

TIA

Penny, who is also dreaming of a way to build an art studio in her back
yard with this stuff....

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Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

From what I've seen in videos and pictures, you've got a lovely flat place. I don't. I'm on a hillside with a flat spot where the house will be and another flat spot where the pumphouse, barn and drive/parking are. Using the scheme you mention would require an old vehicle . . . and it makes the mixer stationary. I'm building in three different places in succession, so the ability to move the mixer is a must. I'm moving from the chicken house to the pumphouse to the people house. I could conceivably do the pumphouse and chicken house by centralling locating the mixer, but it would put it in the middle of the drive . . . picture Terry not happy. Picture the propane guy not happy . . . no circular driveway and nowhere to turn around if the weather has been wet. Not to mention the UPS guy.

Having a mixer that works for the location is important.

I have a non-operational 2 yard tilt-bed truck with hydraulics. If I were richer/smarter/knew more (or married to someone with mechanical aptitude) I'd get it repaired (starter solenoid, I think) and mount the mixer on the deck, using the hydraulic pto to run it. Then I could mix and move and dump without having to pump slurry. I could use the tractor bucket to load the mixer (bed's about 4' off the ground). That would rock. It would be just a bit pricier, but well worth the effort, I think. I may look at getting it to Gary to fix . . . I'll have to talk to Wad (Terry) about it. I'm thinking I would be spending most of my time keeping it running rather than mixing papercrete.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: JUDITH WILLIAMS

Some have made a tow mixer but run it in a stationary mode by attaching it to the axle of an old vehicle that doesn't move. Seems like a good idea to me.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

Some have made a tow mixer but run it in a stationary mode by attaching it to the axle of an old vehicle that doesn't move. Seems like a good idea to me.

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: elf@elfnori.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:41:24 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

With that said . . . if don't have level terrain in which to make a loop with a tow mixer and already have pto power available AND have a good farm salvage yard nearby, I'm guessing the cost is a wash for a pto driven mixer <fingers firmly crossed>

We'll know soon . . . carriage money is (purportedly) on the way, so mixer parts are on the list for things to scavenge from the tractor salvage yard in Albany when I drop the carriage off. Wahoo!

I expect some challenges, but given we can't make a loop with a tow mixer unless I drive Boop girl around and around the yard which would piss Terry off (REALLY hates me driving on the grass), I think a pto driven mixer is a must. I'm going to try and build it so I can hitch it to the tractor and drive the mixer with the pto. Hitched to the tractor I can move the mixer anywhere I need it, tilting it by lifting the draw bar to aid in emptying. All plans subject to change without notice . . .

On the plus side, I have now successfully sweated fittings. The new shower mixer valve is in place and WORKS. <happy dance> We again have running water and I'm clean! Yeah, yeah, TMI.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: Janoahsh

Thank You Curtis,

I was considering using a 500 gallon tank I have and fabricating a mixer. Your comment below has made me reconsider.

Janosh

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RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

I would have to agree with that. My poor mixer had made hundreds of batches with virtually no maintenance. Once the lid broke in half and fell in breaking the blade but that was my fault. It's had its leaks too but they self-seal once the paper pulps. I paid too much for it since I had to hire out all the work but the parts weren't too expensive. I would have done better to go to the scrapyard for the metal but I was in a hurry to get it going since my welder had to serve 60 days in jail before he could start it. That put me way behind schedule.

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: dbigkahunna@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:36:10 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

The tow mixer is the lowest cost way to mix large quantities of PC. They are easy to fabricate, easy to use and robust. You would have to make and sell a lot of block to justify the capital necessary for stationary equiment. Even the LIving In Paper project uses a tow mixer. THere are othere alternatives for smaller batches, but ya cant beat the simple tow mixer.

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Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! __._,_.___

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[papercreters] Re: mixers

As I posted in a reply somewhere in that thread, the mistakes I made
were overconfidence and complacency. The corrective measures I took
were:

1. Vowing to always wear boots when working with papercrete.
2. Replacing the old worn buckets with new ones.
3. Getting in the habit inspecting my buckets for undue wear before
each use.
4. Rounding the corners and dulling the butt ends of my mixer blade.
5. Not getting carried away and zipping the blade so fast. So what if
I have to mix a bucket for an extra 30 seconds? I was in typical male
macho overkill mode of "YEEEEEE HAAAAAW MORRRRRRE POWWWWWERRRRRR!!!!!
LOOK AT THAT SLURRY SWIRL!!!" Eh.... what can I say? I'm easily
entertained by the little things in life. It beats being a boring
stuffed shirt any day!

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Greg House <ghunicycle@...> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
> >
> >Before anyone tries using a bucket to make papercrete, I strongly
>
> >suggest reading this previous post:
>
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/message/1509
>
> I wonder if you could attach some curved pieces to the ends of your
mixer blade that would ride on the sides of the bucket to keep it from
cutting through? Or would that render the blade ineffective at pulping
the paper?
>
> Greg
>

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[papercreters] Re: Mortar (papercrete mixes)

This is very intriguing. I absolutely want to understand what you are
encountering. I guess I usually don't try to leave slurry laying
around long enough to experience this phenomenon. Your theory about
top vs bottom of the barrel seems logical and worthy of some kind of
experiment to test its validity.

Is it possible that some of the weaker blocks were handled too
quickly? Moving blocks that are too wet tends to crack them and weaken
them dramatically.

By all means, I hope you can determine for certain exactly what is
causing you this trouble and fix it. The information would be valuable
for everyone.

Please keep us informed as you learn more.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Eli Sutton" <elidesign@...> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
> When we started using metakaolin we were
> elated that set time was reduced to hours opposed to days, and
> shrinkage reduced considerably. What we didn't know at the time
> was that the metakaolin, at least in the proportion we used,
> reduced strength and hardness. At least most of the time, which
> brings me to the next point: The thing that I'm currently really
> curious about is that the quality of the blocks we made using the
> same mix design on the same day (same weather, etc.) varies so
> greatly.
>
><snip>

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Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

With that said . . . if don't have level terrain in which to make a loop with a tow mixer and already have pto power available AND have a good farm salvage yard nearby, I'm guessing the cost is a wash for a pto driven mixer <fingers firmly crossed>

We'll know soon . . . carriage money is (purportedly) on the way, so mixer parts are on the list for things to scavenge from the tractor salvage yard in Albany when I drop the carriage off. Wahoo!

I expect some challenges, but given we can't make a loop with a tow mixer unless I drive Boop girl around and around the yard which would piss Terry off (REALLY hates me driving on the grass), I think a pto driven mixer is a must. I'm going to try and build it so I can hitch it to the tractor and drive the mixer with the pto. Hitched to the tractor I can move the mixer anywhere I need it, tilting it by lifting the draw bar to aid in emptying. All plans subject to change without notice . . .

On the plus side, I have now successfully sweated fittings. The new shower mixer valve is in place and WORKS. <happy dance> We again have running water and I'm clean! Yeah, yeah, TMI.

ElfN

----- Original Message -----

From: Janoahsh

Thank You Curtis,

I was considering using a 500 gallon tank I have and fabricating a mixer. Your comment below has made me reconsider.

Janosh

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RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

Thank You Curtis,

I was considering using a 500 gallon tank I have and fabricating a mixer. Your comment below has made me reconsider.

Janosh

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curtis Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 3:36 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

The tow mixer is the lowest cost way to mix large quantities of PC. They are easy to fabricate, easy to use and robust. You would have to make and sell a lot of block to justify the capital necessary for stationary equiment. Even the LIving In Paper project uses a tow mixer. THere are othere alternatives for smaller batches, but ya cant beat the simple tow mixer.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

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Tuesday, January 29, 2008

[papercreters] Pulp production

Has anyone looked into the feasability of the Hollander Beaters or
other equipment used in the handcrafted paper industry to mix
papercrete?

A cursory look around the net found tiny units for home craft use to
larger industrial units. I have no idea how they work but they look
like they could deal with a lot of paper very efficiently.

Randy

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Re: [papercreters] Re: mixers

Thanks everyone for the advice on mixers. Now if the rain & snow ever stops.
Sam
Spay & Neuter

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RE: [papercreters] Re:Mortar

http://www.metakaolin.com/

http://www.optipozz.com/

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Jq4FQJNuUfAJ:www.dot.state.il.us/materials/finelydividedminerals.pdf+Metakaolin+suppliers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:miYacIBnTdgJ:www.concretecountertops.net/modules/smartsection/makepdf.php%3Fitemid%3D27+Metakaolin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curtis Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:23 PM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re:Mortar

Clyde,

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__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re:Mortar

Clyde,

Where do you get Metakaolin pozzalon?

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[papercreters] Re: mixers

Sam, my hubby and I have been doing our experimental blocks and some
very small retainer walls around the barn with just one of
those "paint mixers" attached to our drill. You can buy these at
most any tool department in a Home Depot or Lowe's. It has worked
fine for our small projects so far.

It just so happens we had a large 50 gal. barrel to soak the paper in
first. I think the paint mixer would be a pain if the paper wasn't
soaked first to the point of falling apart.

We then do the actual mixing of ingredients in a more manageable pool
chemical bucket that is probably about a 15 gallon capacity.

Connie

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, <hsofcats@...> wrote:
>
> What would you suggest using as a mixer for someone just starting
and starting small. Stepping stones etc.
> I read on another web site that blenders could be used but that
sounds like they would be ruined.
> Thanks
> Sam
>

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[papercreters] Ultra Effective Min-mixer

The best (safest) tool that has been used to date for moderate batch
making is a Garbage Disposal. They are super cheap (used) and often
come with sink, faucet, and counter top. After you set it up (water &
power) just get 2 buckets. One under the unit to catch the slurry, and
one to replace it when full. Sometimes you have to run the full buckets
contents thru one more time... depends on desired consistencey. This
only makes slurry.... period!
You take the slurry to the next stage with a mortar or cement mixer.
Which of course can be as simple as a plastic bucket with lid that gets
rolled around on the ground (see Harbour Freight).
I got an entire kitchen set up on Craigslist, free for the removal,
for my artsy fartsy neighbor.

Take Care..... Bob M.

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[papercreters] Re: Wind -was- Effective R-Value calcs

I think I got YAHOOOO'd. Anyway they were just saying thanx to S.G. for
the response.
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Chabot" <sire@...> wrote:
>
> I don't see any message in these posts by Robert Merrill.........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Merrill
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:28 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Wind -was- Effective R-Value calcs
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "slurryguy" slurryguy@ wrote:
> >
> > It's simple planetary geometery.
> >
> > The earth's rotational axis is tilted in relation to the plane of
> > it's orbit. (This is what gives us seasons) Therefore the arctics
> > have drastically short solar days in winter, if the sun makes it
> > above the horizon at all. The angle of incidence means that the
> > solar radiation has to fight through a much thicker layer of
> > atmosphere also. There's simply a lot less solar radition to be
> > collected.
> >
> > Sublimation effect (ice evaporation) inhibits ice buildup on a wind
> > turbine at extremely cold temperatures(below zero F). Ice is a
> > bigger problem at temperate climates where you get freezing rain.
> >
> > To directly answer your question, I've seen plenty of pictures of
> > wind turbine disasters. That's why you mount one on a tower a safe
> > distance from you house instead of on your roof. (that and it's a
> > lot easier to maintain, and you don't have to live with vibration
> > noise).
> >
> > Dan and Dan on otherpower have a lot of great stories in the
> > experiments section. Lots of great reading there. They go into
> > great detail describing failures and what they learned from them.
> > Their information is free. Hugh Piggot has also detailed his
> > failures as well as his successes.
> >
> > The discussion board on that site is one of the best discussion
> > boards around. I highly reccomend it. That board was one of many
> > that was looked at to see why it was so successful before
> > Papercreters was created.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Merrill"
> > robertmerrill1953@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi S.G.;
> > >
> > > <<<<<Solar power isn't practical in the arctics>>>>>>
> > >
> > > I am wondering where or how you derive this assumption?
> > >
> > > <<<<<wind in Alaska >>>>>>>
> > >
> > > Have you ever seen the pictures of ice encrusted blades stuck 4'
in
> > the
> > > ground when they severed in a 60 m.p.h.??
> > >
> > > See Yaaaa........ Bob M.
> > >
> >
>

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Papercreters

Thursday, January 31, 2008

[papercreters] Re: Newbie in Alabama...

Re: [papercreters] Re: Pulp production

[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

Re: [papercreters] Re: Pulp production

Re: [papercreters] Re: Pulp production

[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

[papercreters] Re: Newbie in Alabama...

[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

[papercreters] Re: Pulp production

[papercreters] Re: Very Close Call

Wednesday, January 30, 2008

[papercreters] ME News link

Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

[papercreters] Newbie in Alabama...

Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

[papercreters] Re: mixers

[papercreters] Re: Mortar (papercrete mixes)

Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

RE: [papercreters] Pulp production

Re: [papercreters] Pulp production

Tuesday, January 29, 2008

[papercreters] Pulp production

Re: [papercreters] Re: mixers

RE: [papercreters] Re:Mortar

Re: [papercreters] Re:Mortar

[papercreters] Re: mixers

[papercreters] Ultra Effective Min-mixer

[papercreters] Re: Wind -was- Effective R-Value calcs

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