Papercreters

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-26T10:27:00.001-06:00

As a former code enforcement officer for my little town, I know it's the
people who are trying to do right by telling on themselves, that get
into the most trouble, because they bring attention to themselves. If
they would have just went about their business and kept a low profile,
most would never have been detected as doing something wrong. What ever
you do, don't bring attention to yourself and if caught play dumb or
like Judith state a different purpose for the building. The governing
bodies take a dim view of people wanting to live in something that
small, without all the frills of big houses.

Bob
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
<williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> You are right Donald. I am in a similar situation being 62 and not
ready in a position to start building again. Those who have been in this
group for a while know that my first project was shut down and I chose
to leave it and start another. The second building was also red tagged
but I called the inspector and explained that it was just a storage she.
He let me know that he could make things very difficult for me but that
if it's just a shed I shoulkd finish it. Since then he has not been
back. What happened with the first shut down was that my neighbor had an
inspection and when the inspector saw my place he felt obligated to
check it out. His coming on my property w/o my permission was not lawful
but would it really be wise to put up a stink?
>
> So my MO now is to keep a very low profile, not draw attention to
myself and keep building. Granted my little buildings don't look like
much. It's hard for most people to believe that anyone would live in a
place like that but that's because they are judging by the wrong
standards. All we really need is a warm dry place, not these huge
Mcmansions that are so popular. I can't believe it when I watch House
Hunters ans see newlyweds who think they need 4000 sf and multiple
bedrooms and bathrooms.
>
> Anyway, I don't mean to get off topic here. I think that anyone who
wants to build with papercrete should give it a try. We should all be
sharing experiences and everything we are learning about and doing with
papercrete. We can't depend on the government to help us and can only
hope they don't interfere with what we are doing.
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at
http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: donald1miller@...
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:18:34 -0800
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok papercreters......You can look at Barry Fuller's roof panels and
compressed blocks and all the rest of the hype but the bottom line is he
builds little sheds for pay per view workshops but the only real houses
he can build are in Mexico. Same with Mike McCain and any other of the
papercrete pioneers. The bottom line is you will not be able to realize
the potential of papercrete because of the resrictive building codes
which are in place to thwart the average person from buiding their own
mortgtage free homes. If you check out the archives on this forum you
will find very few people who have actualy built a liveable house out of
papercrete. There are very few places in this country that do not have
code enforcement. I, unfortunately, live in one which does. I am
building a papercrete house anyway but I will have to be looking over my
shoulder and it really takes away from the enjoyment that one should
have from buillding his own home. I don't know
> what will happen if I get caught or turned in. I am 68 years old and
an experienced builder but I know that will not hold much water with
with the powers that be. And PLEASE don't tell me to work with the
kindly county officials who are only doing their job and wiill work with
you on this. All I can say to this is, BS. These county officials are
only looking to keep and perpetuate their jobs. And if you are trying to
build with an unknown medium they really don't care. You will be
required to build with conventional framing and sheeting and can only
use the papercrete on the outside of the OSB sheeting. If you are
required to do this why bother with the papercrete? If you want to get a
warm fuzzy from using this green medium you will probably have to stick
to building birdhouses,
> --- On Mon, 1/23/12, joel joelincalif@... wrote:
>
>
> From: joel joelincalif@...
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, January 23, 2012, 7:21 PM
>
>
>
>
>
> Take a look at Barry Fuller's site where he's completed or supported
numerous projects with papercrete roofs.
>
> http://livinginpaper.org/
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, teri ann tibbetts tatsass@ wrote:
> >
> > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> > im not sure if he is on this group...
> > i know he is on facebookÂ ...
> >
> > From: Alan rustaholic777@
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof
> panels?
> >
> > Â
> > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> > Alan in Michigan
> >
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-26T10:08:00.001-06:00

Yes, I have used the coated burlap (or in my case, I used old bed
blankets and old clothing ) to make large stones for landscaping the my
yard, I first draped coated blankets over an old tub and some buckets to
give it a shape, after dry I poured the interior of the stone with my
formula of PC, it has been laying out in the yard almost a year now and
I don't see any damage.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ashokchand2000"
<ashokchand2000@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Countryatheartok,
> Are you suggesting that after a PC roof has been made, it could be
improved by draping over it cement coated burlap of the type shown in
the link?
> Regards
> Ashok
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" criswells.ok@
wrote:
> >
> >
> > Also take a look at these roofs after year out in the weather and
kids
> > climbing on them
> >
http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.htm\
\
> > l
> >
<http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.ht\
\
> > ml>
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@" <prrr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 'Latex' paints contain pva and/or acrylic binders, which are a
long
> > way short of the level of waterproofness needed for outdoor use as a
> > binder here in England. I dare say they'd work in a near desert
climate,
> > but over here much more waterproof compounds than those, eg PU, are
> > inadequate.
> > >
> > > I don't fancy my chances with a highly porous roof material with a
> > little added water soluble binder, I can't see it has any realistic
> > chance of keeping dripping wet out of the building.
> > >
> > > The only way I can see that might work for a roof here is to
saturate
> > the topside of the papercrete with bitumen in solvent, using a thin
mix
> > first to get it to penetrate as far as possible. The result would be
> > excessive drying time, making construction problematic. Hopefully
the
> > insulation value of the unsaturated papercrete would prevent too
much
> > condensation, and what does occur could hopefully dry out without
> > dripping. If the material cracks, the roofing would soon saturate.
My
> > thinking is this should be more durable than bitumen felting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
williams_judith@
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The
first
> > batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I
> > plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5
years
> > later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise
you
> > but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
> > > > I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the
roof I
> > have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the
> > first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into
it
> > and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the
> > second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store.
On
> > top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in
a
> > roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but
is
> > too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more
> > papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some
paint
> > to the mix.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Follow progress on the new project at
> > http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > > >
> > > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: prrr@
> > > > Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
> > > > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next
year. I
> > live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm
sure
> > they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything
inside
> > rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof
> > overcoating tends to cause problems.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards, NT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> > <williams_judith@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls
right
> > up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks
at
> > corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I
think
> > adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to
go
> > around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I
am
> > no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the
Currys
> > in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but
> > have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x
48".
> > I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence
over
> > that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it
set
> > up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they
warped.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Follow progress on the new project at
> > http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > > From: tatsass@
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
> > > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> > > >
> > > > > im not sure if he is on this group...
> > > >
> > > > > i know he is on facebook ...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: Alan <rustaholic777@>
> > > >
> > > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> > > >
> > > > > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> > > >
> > > > > Alan in Michigan
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-26T00:38:00.000-06:00

Dear Countryatheartok,
Are you suggesting that after a PC roof has been made, it could be improved by draping over it cement coated burlap of the type shown in the link?
Regards
Ashok
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> Also take a look at these roofs after year out in the weather and kids
> climbing on them
> http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.htm\
> l
> <http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.ht\
> ml>
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@" <prrr@> wrote:
> >
> > 'Latex' paints contain pva and/or acrylic binders, which are a long
> way short of the level of waterproofness needed for outdoor use as a
> binder here in England. I dare say they'd work in a near desert climate,
> but over here much more waterproof compounds than those, eg PU, are
> inadequate.
> >
> > I don't fancy my chances with a highly porous roof material with a
> little added water soluble binder, I can't see it has any realistic
> chance of keeping dripping wet out of the building.
> >
> > The only way I can see that might work for a roof here is to saturate
> the topside of the papercrete with bitumen in solvent, using a thin mix
> first to get it to penetrate as far as possible. The result would be
> excessive drying time, making construction problematic. Hopefully the
> insulation value of the unsaturated papercrete would prevent too much
> condensation, and what does occur could hopefully dry out without
> dripping. If the material cracks, the roofing would soon saturate. My
> thinking is this should be more durable than bitumen felting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS williams_judith@
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The first
> batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I
> plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5 years
> later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise you
> but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
> > > I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the roof I
> have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the
> first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into it
> and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the
> second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store. On
> top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in a
> roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but is
> too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more
> papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some paint
> to the mix.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Follow progress on the new project at
> http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > >
> > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > >
> > >
> > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: prrr@
> > > Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
> > > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next year. I
> live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm sure
> they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything inside
> rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof
> overcoating tends to cause problems.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards, NT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> <williams_judith@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right
> up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at
> corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think
> adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go
> around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am
> no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys
> in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but
> have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48".
> I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over
> that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set
> up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Follow progress on the new project at
> http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > From: tatsass@
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> > >
> > > > im not sure if he is on this group...
> > >
> > > > i know he is on facebook ...
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > From: Alan <rustaholic777@>
> > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> > >
> > > > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> > >
> > > > Alan in Michigan
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-25T20:08:00.001-06:00

There is a county next to this one where the inspection departments have gone broke and shut down.

Now people are building what they want to.

I just am planning to build shed.

Alan

--- On Tue, 1/24/12, Donald Miller <donald1miller@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Donald Miller <donald1miller@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 3:18 AM

Ok papercreters......You can look at Barry Fuller's roof panels and compressed blocks and all the rest of the hype but the bottom line is he builds little sheds for pay per view workshops but the only real houses he can build are in Mexico. Same with Mike McCain and any other of the papercrete pioneers. The bottom line is you will not be able to realize the potential of papercrete because of the resrictive building codes which are in place to thwart the average person from buiding their own mortgtage free homes. If you check out the archives on this forum you will find very few people who have actualy built a liveable house out of papercrete. There are very few places in this country that do not have code enforcement. I, unfortunately, live in one which does. I am building a papercrete house anyway but I will have to be looking over my shoulder and it really takes away from the enjoyment that one should have from buillding his own home. I don't know what will happen if I get caught or turned in. I am 68 years old and an experienced builder but I know that will not hold much water with with the powers that be. And PLEASE don't tell me to work with the kindly county officials who are only doing their job and wiill work with you on this. All I can say to this is, BS. These county officials are only looking to keep and perpetuate their jobs. And if you are trying to build with an unknown medium they really don't care. You will be required to build with conventional framing and sheeting and can only use the papercrete on the outside of the OSB sheeting. If you are required to do this why bother with the papercrete? If you want to get a warm fuzzy from using this green medium you will probably have to stick to building birdhouses,

--- On Mon, 1/23/12, joel <joelincalif@aim.com> wrote:

From: joel <joelincalif@aim.com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 23, 2012, 7:21 PM

Take a look at Barry Fuller's site where he's completed or supported numerous projects with papercrete roofs.

http://livinginpaper.org/

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, teri ann tibbetts <tatsass@...> wrote:
>
> ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> im not sure if he is on this group...
> i know he is on facebookÂ ...
>
> From: Alan <rustaholic777@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> Â
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-25T18:37:00.000-06:00

Hello,

Longtime lurker, first post. I've been following different groups to plan/design/dream about how to build my house once I find my own piece of dirt. Here's another roof option:

Latex Concrete Habitat [Paperback]
Albert Knott (Author), George Nez (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Latex-Concrete-Habitat-Albert-Knott/dp/1412039975

The basic idea:
- Build a relatively simple frame from dimensional lumber. Imagine a four-sided frame laying flat on the ground. Now lift one corner up 90 degrees. Put two such frames together to form a pyramid.
- Basket-weave strips of window screen across the sections. Now you have a hyperbolic paraboloid or hypar.
- Saturate the weave with a mixture of cement and latex (could be paint. Mix must be worked into and though the screen material.
- Repeat 2 or three times.
- Successive layers add increasing amounts of fine dry sand.

Result is a lightweight, weatherproof, thin-shell roof. Strong enough to walk on and support significant snow loads. Frame and first layer of fabric can be built on the ground and then lifted/placed on walls or posts. "Get the roof up and then you've got a place to work." Sounds ideal for papercrete or cob projects where rain is most unwelcome during construction.

The book includes specifics on how to put the frame together, how to stress-test your screen material, weave the screen on the frame and how to do the work with just a few people.

Small and large projects have been built using the technique. I just found the idea interesting from a low-cost construction standpoint.

TSC Global is currently working with the concepts from the book. See http://www.tscglobal.net/product for some project pictures. I'm especially interested in the cross gable design found on their sketches page: http://tscglobal.org/sketches-and-concept-drawings/.

Another project: http://velacreations.blogspot.com/search/label/latex%20concrete

I have no association with the people or company mentioned above other than as a researcher/dreamer.

Dwayne Morrison

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Alan <rustaholic777@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Response to Papaercrete for roof panels

2012-01-25T14:57:00.000-06:00

Sorry group, I did not see my reply show up (sent 1/24/12) so sent it again today, then found my response in the spam folder. My apologies for re-sending.

Ron

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-25T14:54:00.001-06:00

In my humble experience cement sticks to paper when thrashed. When a mixer full of PC sits for 10 minutes, water (that looks clean enough to drink), "floats" to the surface. It really is the paper sinking but the point is that there is no loss of cement to the water dripping away. When you mix water, paper, cement and some latex, the latex washes away with the water. If latex paint clean-up is done with water it is water soluble. I can't see putting latex in with the mix as an economical means of preventing water ingress, nor with it in the finished structure (wall or roof) as a viable means of water egress. It would be much more efficient to put on the outside it would seem.

This issue of roofs of PC is an interesting one. Roofs are roofs. They are there to repel water to protect the structure beneath. Outside of sod roofs (that leaked when heavy or consistent rains fell) most people that don't like drip buckets all over the house have gone to something that works well (shingles of wood, asphalt or tile, or metal roofing. It would seem reasonable to use PC where its strengths are (insulation, sound deadening, and compressive strength) and leave the roof for the materials that have proven themselves over time.

Sure, some have used PC successfully as a roof material, but could everyone? If you don't live in an arid region, and your waterproofing failed, your roof could fail due to weight, let alone the aforementioned dripping and consequent ruination of the interior. It can be used in the rafters of the trusses for insulation or sprayed to the underside of the roof itself but needs to be protected by a roof. Spaceman's domes are built strong so they can withstand the extra weight of added moisture between long intervals of drought and drying. Similar structures in more moist environs could suffer catastrophic failure due to the added weight (especially if accompanied with a live load of wind). Why go to all the trouble of building a PC house and then have the roof fail? In Nick's post he ended with "it should last for years" but it should last for decades if protected properly.

I live in Alaska where it rains frequently. Out in the bush I have come across many old log cabins that would be perfectly livable except the roof is sitting on the floor inside the building. Old timers used what they had and generally the roof was whipsawn boards, sometimes covered with dirt. With water penetrating the roof the rot and weight caused the failure but the walls remained intact.

From: "prrr.t21@btinternet.com" <prrr@talk21.com>

'Latex' paints contain pva and/or acrylic binders, which are a long way short of the level of waterproofness needed for outdoor use as a binder here in England. I dare say they'd work in a near desert climate, but over here much more waterproof compounds than those, eg PU, are inadequate.

I don't fancy my chances with a highly porous roof material with a little added water soluble binder, I can't see it has any realistic chance of keeping dripping wet out of the building.

The only way I can see that might work for a roof here is to saturate the topside of the papercrete with bitumen in solvent, using a thin mix first to get it to penetrate as far as possible. The result would be excessive drying time, making construction problematic. Hopefully the insulation value of the unsaturated papercrete would prevent too much condensation, and what does occur could hopefully dry out without dripping. If the material cracks, the roofing would soon saturate. My thinking is this should be more durable than bitumen felting.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The first batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5 years later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise you but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
> I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the roof I have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into it and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store. On top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in a roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but is too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some paint to the mix.
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: prrr@...
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next year. I live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm sure they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything inside rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof overcoating tends to cause problems.
>
>
>
> Regards, NT
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
>
> >
>
> > I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48". I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> >
>
> > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
>
> > From: tatsass@
>
> > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
>
> > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
>
> > im not sure if he is on this group...
>
> > i know he is on facebook ...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: Alan <rustaholic777@>
>
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
>
> > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
>
> > Alan in Michigan
>
> >
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-25T12:58:00.001-06:00

You are right Donald. I am in a similar situation being 62 and not ready in a position to start building again. Those who have been in this group for a while know that my first project was shut down and I chose to leave it and start another. The second building was also red tagged but I called the inspector and explained that it was just a storage she. He let me know that he could make things very difficult for me but that if it's just a shed I shoulkd finish it. Since then he has not been back. What happened with the first shut down was that my neighbor had an inspection and when the inspector saw my place he felt obligated to check it out. His coming on my property w/o my permission was not lawful but would it really be wise to put up a stink?

So my MO now is to keep a very low profile, not draw attention to myself and keep building. Granted my little buildings don't look like much. It's hard for most people to believe that anyone would live in a place like that but that's because they are judging by the wrong standards. All we really need is a warm dry place, not these huge Mcmansions that are so popular. I can't believe it when I watch House Hunters ans see newlyweds who think they need 4000 sf and multiple bedrooms and bathrooms.

Anyway, I don't mean to get off topic here. I think that anyone who wants to build with papercrete should give it a try. We should all be sharing experiences and everything we are learning about and doing with papercrete. We can't depend on the government to help us and can only hope they don't interfere with what we are doing.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: donald1miller@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:18:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

Ok papercreters......You can look at Barry Fuller's roof panels and compressed blocks and all the rest of the hype but the bottom line is he builds little sheds for pay per view workshops but the only real houses he can build are in Mexico. Same with Mike McCain and any other of the papercrete pioneers. The bottom line is you will not be able to realize the potential of papercrete because of the resrictive building codes which are in place to thwart the average person from buiding their own mortgtage free homes. If you check out the archives on this forum you will find very few people who have actualy built a liveable house out of papercrete. There are very few places in this country that do not have code enforcement. I, unfortunately, live in one which does. I am building a papercrete house anyway but I will have to be looking over my shoulder and it really takes away from the enjoyment that one should have from buillding his own home. I don't know what will happen if I get caught or turned in. I am 68 years old and an experienced builder but I know that will not hold much water with with the powers that be. And PLEASE don't tell me to work with the kindly county officials who are only doing their job and wiill work with you on this. All I can say to this is, BS. These county officials are only looking to keep and perpetuate their jobs. And if you are trying to build with an unknown medium they really don't care. You will be required to build with conventional framing and sheeting and can only use the papercrete on the outside of the OSB sheeting. If you are required to do this why bother with the papercrete? If you want to get a warm fuzzy from using this green medium you will probably have to stick to building birdhouses,

--- On Mon, 1/23/12, joel <joelincalif@aim.com> wrote:

From: joel <joelincalif@aim.com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 23, 2012, 7:21 PM

Take a look at Barry Fuller's site where he's completed or supported numerous projects with papercrete roofs.

http://livinginpaper.org/

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, teri ann tibbetts <tatsass@...> wrote:
>
> ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> im not sure if he is on this group...
> i know he is on facebookÂ ...
>
> From: Alan <rustaholic777@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> Â
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-25T09:31:00.001-06:00

Thanks for the suggestion. I've no experience with burlapcrete, but I'll admit I found the state of that roof after only 5 years offputting. I also would need the roof to look better due to where I live, so wuold probably want to put it onto polythene covered chip to get a flat smooth roof, but the loss of corrugation would weaken it considerably.

I really would like something that will last better than bitumen felt, which will do upto 20 years. If I cant find better I may just end up sticking with chipboard sarking on timber frame, capped with bitumen felt. Or I might be braver and try bitumen soaked papercrete, I dont know.

Thanks to everyone so far.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> Also take a look at these roofs after year out in the weather and kids
> climbing on them
> http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.htm\
> l
> <http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.ht\
> ml>
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@" <prrr@> wrote:
> >
> > 'Latex' paints contain pva and/or acrylic binders, which are a long
> way short of the level of waterproofness needed for outdoor use as a
> binder here in England. I dare say they'd work in a near desert climate,
> but over here much more waterproof compounds than those, eg PU, are
> inadequate.
> >
> > I don't fancy my chances with a highly porous roof material with a
> little added water soluble binder, I can't see it has any realistic
> chance of keeping dripping wet out of the building.
> >
> > The only way I can see that might work for a roof here is to saturate
> the topside of the papercrete with bitumen in solvent, using a thin mix
> first to get it to penetrate as far as possible. The result would be
> excessive drying time, making construction problematic. Hopefully the
> insulation value of the unsaturated papercrete would prevent too much
> condensation, and what does occur could hopefully dry out without
> dripping. If the material cracks, the roofing would soon saturate. My
> thinking is this should be more durable than bitumen felting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS williams_judith@
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The first
> batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I
> plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5 years
> later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise you
> but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
> > > I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the roof I
> have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the
> first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into it
> and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the
> second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store. On
> top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in a
> roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but is
> too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more
> papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some paint
> to the mix.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Follow progress on the new project at
> http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > >
> > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > >
> > >
> > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: prrr@
> > > Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
> > > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next year. I
> live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm sure
> they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything inside
> rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof
> overcoating tends to cause problems.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards, NT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> <williams_judith@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right
> up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at
> corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think
> adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go
> around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am
> no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys
> in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but
> have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48".
> I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over
> that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set
> up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Follow progress on the new project at
> http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > From: tatsass@
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> > >
> > > > im not sure if he is on this group...
> > >
> > > > i know he is on facebook ...
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > From: Alan <rustaholic777@>
> > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> > >
> > > > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> > >
> > > > Alan in Michigan
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-24T14:53:00.000-06:00

Ron

From: countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:01 AM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

Also take a look at these roofs after year out in the weather and kids climbing on them
http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.html

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@..." <prrr@...> wrote:
>
> 'Latex' paints contain pva and/or acrylic binders, which are a long way short of the level of waterproofness needed for outdoor use as a binder here in England. I dare say they'd work in a near desert climate, but over here much more waterproof compounds than those, eg PU, are inadequate.
>
> I don't fancy my chances with a highly porous roof material with a little added water soluble binder, I can't see it has any realistic chance of keeping dripping wet out of the building.
>
> The only way I can see that might work for a roof here is to saturate the topside of the papercrete with bitumen in solvent, using a thin mix first to get it to penetrate as far as possible. The result would be excessive drying time, making construction problematic. Hopefully the insulation value of the unsaturated papercrete would prevent too much condensation, and what does occur could hopefully dry out without dripping. If the material cracks, the roofing would soon saturate. My thinking is this should be more durable than bitumen felting.
>
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS williams_judith@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The first batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5 years later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise you but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
> > I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the roof I have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into it and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store. On top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in a roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but is too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some paint to the mix.
> >
> >
> >
> > Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> >
> > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> >
> >
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > From: prrr@
> > Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
> > Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next year. I live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm sure they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything inside rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof overcoating tends to cause problems.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards, NT
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48". I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> >
> > >
> >
> > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > From: tatsass@
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> >
> > > im not sure if he is on this group...
> >
> > > i know he is on facebook ...
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > From: Alan <rustaholic777@>
> >
> > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> >
> > > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> >
> > > Alan in Michigan
> >
> > >
> >
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-24T14:01:00.001-06:00

Also take a look at these roofs after year out in the weather and kids climbing on them
http://www.ferrocement.com/Roof-repair-2010/roof-repair-10-29-2010.1.html

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-24T13:55:00.000-06:00

Have you looked into this site http://www.ferrocement.com/bioFiber/y7-r1/biofiber_y7.1.en.html and http://www.ferrocement.com/biofiber_rain_gutter/rain-gutter-1.en.html looks like this would be your answer to lots of wet weather, you could coat the under side with PC over and over again until you got the insulation results you want.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-24T09:12:00.000-06:00

Maybe keep it completely dry via a tarp for the first few months then coat with a rubberized asphalt as you described. Once that sets up well maybe a light coloured oil based paint it should last for years.

Nick

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of prrr.t21@btinternet.com
Sent: January-24-12 9:43 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-24T08:42:00.001-06:00

I don't fancy my chances with a highly porous roof material with a little added water soluble binder, I can't see it has any realistic chance of keeping dripping wet out of the building.

The only way I can see that might work for a roof here is to saturate the topside of the papercrete with bitumen in solvent, using a thin mix first to get it to penetrate as far as possible. The result would be excessive drying time, making construction problematic. Hopefully the insulation value of the unsaturated papercrete would prevent too much condensation, and what does occur could hopefully dry out without dripping. If the material cracks, the roofing would soon saturate. My thinking is this should be more durable than bitumen felting.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The first batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5 years later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise you but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
> I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the roof I have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into it and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store. On top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in a roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but is too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some paint to the mix.
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: prrr@...
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next year. I live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm sure they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything inside rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof overcoating tends to cause problems.
>
>
>
> Regards, NT
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
>
> >
>
> > I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48". I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> >
>
> > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
>
> > From: tatsass@
>
> > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
>
> > Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ..lex terry in new mexico did...
>
> > im not sure if he is on this group...
>
> > i know he is on facebook ...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: Alan <rustaholic777@>
>
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
>
> > Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
>
> > Alan in Michigan
>
> >
>

------------------------------------

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-24T02:18:00.001-06:00

--- On Mon, 1/23/12, joel <joelincalif@aim.com> wrote:

From: joel <joelincalif@aim.com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 23, 2012, 7:21 PM

Take a look at Barry Fuller's site where he's completed or supported numerous projects with papercrete roofs.

http://livinginpaper.org/

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, teri ann tibbetts <tatsass@...> wrote:
>
> ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> im not sure if he is on this group...
> i know he is on facebookÂ ...
>
> From: Alan <rustaholic777@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> Â
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-24T01:01:00.001-06:00

I've only quickly glanced at this discussion but want to warn:

1 - Papercrete burns in tests. Sort of like charcoal. It doesn't flame. It smolders. And it has to be treated with a LOT of boric acid to make it burnproof. The amount most people are using does help make it fire and insect resistant. But doesn't stop it from smoldering if you put and hold a torch to it for a couple minutes. And then it doesn't stop smoldering when you remove the torch. The heated area has to be cut out of the wall or brick to stop the burn from spreading.

So my thought is you don't want papercrete anywhere close to the primary heat source in a rocketstove.

2 - And I see others have covered this, I'll just join the chorus: For a rocket stove you want thermal mass, not insulation. Papercrete is not thermal mass. Get rid of the paper and it is thermal mass. The heavier and denser the mix, the higher the thermal mass. Thermal mass stores and slowly releases heat thus making your rocket stove an extremely efficient heater. Insulation blocks movement of heat or cold.

-- ken winston caine

------------------------------------

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<*> Your email settings:
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[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-23T21:21:00.001-06:00

Take a look at Barry Fuller's site where he's completed or supported numerous projects with papercrete roofs.

http://livinginpaper.org/

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, teri ann tibbetts <tatsass@...> wrote:
>
> ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> im not sure if he is on this group...
> i know he is on facebookÂ ...
>
> From: Alan <rustaholic777@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
> Â
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

------------------------------------

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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RE: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-23T19:16:00.000-06:00

I have experimented with adding latex paint to the mix. The first batch I did was about 5 gallons paint to my 200 gallon mixer. I plastered a small area of wall just to see what would happen and 5 years later it is still up there. I live in a dry climate so cannot advise you but I would say it's worth a try. Make a batch and try it out.
I am thinking of doing something like this when I plaster the roof I have onthere now. I have a papercrete roof on each building. On the first one I laid down a good base of slurry then placed blocks into it and covered the whole thing with seems to have worked out OK. On the second building I put down those reed mats they sell at the store. On top of that I put some of that foil wrapped insulation that comes in a roll. I put 3 layers of papercrete over that. It hasn't leaked but is too thin. Some of it has lifted a bit so I'm going to put more papercrete on top of it in the spring. That's where I may add some paint to the mix.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: prrr@talk21.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:31:56 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

I'm interested in a small papercrete roof, probably for next year. I live in a wet climte in England, and if I used plain papercrete I'm sure they'd become saturated with water in winter, and make everything inside rust & rot. How could that be prevented? I gather a waterproof overcoating tends to cause problems.

Regards, NT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
>
> I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48". I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
>
>
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
>
>
>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: tatsass@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> im not sure if he is on this group...
> i know he is on facebook ...
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Alan <rustaholic777@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-23T18:31:00.000-06:00

Regards, NT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.
>
> I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48". I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.
>
>
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
>
>
>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: tatsass@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ..lex terry in new mexico did...
> im not sure if he is on this group...
> i know he is on facebook ...
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Alan <rustaholic777@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
> Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?
> Alan in Michigan
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join
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<*> To change settings via email:
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RE: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-23T14:46:00.000-06:00

Thanks Nick. I will do that.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: picknick@sympatico.ca
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:22:07 -0500
Subject: RE: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

Judith rather than using a dissimilar material like foam which can collect and hold moisture you might want to consider just using a runny version of your papercrete to fill the cracks. It may take a few go rounds letting them dry out between fillings but you will eventually wind up with a good solid uniform wall or roof that will behave the same during temperature changes etc.. And it won't cost you much..

Nick

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JUDITH WILLIAMS
Sent: January-23-12 12:06 PM
To: papercreters papercreters
Subject: RE: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

I have done 2 papercrete roofs. I just continued the walls right up and over the top. Pics are in my blog. I have noticed some cracks at corners of doors and around the perimeter of the roof itself. I think adding more cement to the mix would have prevenedt this. I plan to go around and fill all cracks with expandable foam before plastering. I am no expert on this. Just learning as I go along. I would think the Currys in TX had done some papercrete roofs. They are not in this group but have a blog. I will give the link in the next email.

I also experimented with roof panels. I made them about 30" x 48". I made the form, poured half the slurry, set a piece of wire fence over that (in the middle) then poured the rest. It is important to let it set up completely before moving it. I moved mine too early and they warped.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: tatsass@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

..lex terry in new mexico did...
im not sure if he is on this group...
i know he is on facebook ...

From: Alan <rustaholic777@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?

Alan in Michigan

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-23T13:22:00.000-06:00

Nick

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: tatsass@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

..lex terry in new mexico did...
im not sure if he is on this group...
i know he is on facebook ...

From: Alan <rustaholic777@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?

Alan in Michigan

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] FW: Puerto Viejo to Big Bend Blog

2012-01-23T11:06:00.000-06:00

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:32:02 +0000
Subject: Puerto Viejo to Big Bend Blog
From: noblebaker@gmail.com
To: judithwilliams@papercretebyjudith.com

Puerto Viejo to Big Bend Blog

Insert Your Own Cliche Title about Celestial Stairways Here.

Posted: 19 Jan 2012 04:30 AM PST

WOW!! WOWW! You gotta come walk up my AWESOME New Stairway! Just three easy days, and Poof , gorgeous plastered stairway!!!

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-23T11:05:00.000-06:00

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: tatsass@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:37:34 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

..lex terry in new mexico did...
im not sure if he is on this group...
i know he is on facebook ...

From: Alan <rustaholic777@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?

Alan in Michigan

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-22T17:37:00.000-06:00

..lex terry in new mexico did...
im not sure if he is on this group...
i know he is on facebook ...

From: Alan <rustaholic777@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?

Alan in Michigan

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-22T15:53:00.000-06:00

As it has been stated before papercrete for most part it is porous and is an insulator....but doesn't mean you cant use it.

I think if you use it in the right areas of the stove it would be great possibly.

Such as insulating the fire riser tube where you want insulation and around the entire stove where it would meet the walls of your home or even insulate beneath the stove.

Doug

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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[papercreters] Papercrete roof panels?

2012-01-22T15:41:00.001-06:00

Has anyone here done a papercrete shed with a papercrete roof?

Alan in Michigan

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Right Guide For Building Regulations

2012-01-22T14:48:00.001-06:00

The records don't show that post as being approved by any moderator, though it was posted by a new member and should have been moderated. At any rate, that person/robot is no longer a member of the group. The spammers are getting more clever at getting by yahoo security.

spaceman

On 1/22/2012 9:32 AM, lebarongroup wrote:

Hi Spaceman and everyone else.  Take a look at this one. The links take you to a pay site, there is no real information there and the link to download looks like this:  -------------------------------------  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and smells like a duck...  --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "buildingregulation" <buildingregulation@...> wrote:

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-22T10:38:00.001-06:00

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
>
> I've been looking at the following site
> http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp
> <http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp> and others, and
> was wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
>
> Bob
>

Rocket mass heaters are great! We are going to be putting one in our studio for radiant, convected and water heating. However the walls will be papercrete the stove will be cob. Rocket stoves start at 1200 degrees in the burn chamber and fade down to 200 near the final exit so in my opinion paper isn't a good fit unless want your rocket stove to become a papercrete ash stove! Just my 2 cents worth.

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Right Guide For Building Regulations

2012-01-22T10:32:00.001-06:00

Hi Spaceman and everyone else.

Take a look at this one. The links take you to a pay site, there is no real information there and the link to download looks like this:

INSTANT DOWNLOAD
UK Building Regulations Parts A – P & Regulation 7

PLUS

Purchase today to get the following 3 FREE bonuses:

Bonus 1# - Essential Building & Permission Guides Pack

Bonus #2 - The Ultimate Property Investors Pack

Bonus #3 - The Ultimate Property Lettings Pack

(That's over 50 documents in total!)
ONLY £9.95 + vat

-------------------------------------

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and smells like a duck...

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "buildingregulation" <buildingregulation@...> wrote:
>
> When my husband and I planned about the house that we will have, I told
> him that the wiring should be placed in a safe place where it cannot be
> reached by our children to prevent fatal injuries caused by electricity.
> That is why he made it sure that the installation of all the wiring of
> switches, sockets and cables were perfectly done by hiring a licensed
> electrician who strictly followed the Part P building regulations
> <http://uk-building-regulations.com/part-p> guide for electrical safety
> of the UK Building Regulations.
>
> With the help of that guide we gained knowledge in preventing future
> accidents caused by wrong installation of electrical wiring. Good thing
> that the UK Building Regulations offers a complete and up to-date guide
> of building regulations.
>
> If you want to know more about these regulations, visit the site of UK
> Building Regulations at http://www.uk-building-regulations.com/
> <http://www.uk-building-regulations.com/>
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Where=?UTF-8?B?PzogUGFwZXIgSQ==?=ssue

2012-01-21T12:49:00.001-06:00

Went to.photos
Will not open.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: Bob <robertmerrill1953@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 18:39:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

Hi All;

Please note that I have recently posted a photo of a current mixer prototype. It has the capacity to do hundreds of gallons, will utilize wast wood and fibre for fuel using a Syn-Gas Generator.

Take Care........ Bob

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@..." <prrr@...> wrote:
>
> Any given mixer only has so much shearing power. Your tough paper requires more than the mixer is giving. If you can increase the mixer blade speed it may get enough force going to do it.
>
> I've tried long soaks on paper, it helped to a degree, but nothing great.
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> > In the archives somewhere is my information on using feed bags. We soak
> > ours for about 12 hours before mixing. Then, they work perfect. It is
> > tough paper, but it makes really good papercrete.
> >
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Garth & Kim Travis
> > www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> > Bedias, Texas
> >
> > On 1/8/2012 5:16 PM, Rusty S wrote:
> > > No Plastic. I have been through every layer and inch of these things.
> > > They are made to carry weight and be thrown around. So I figure they are
> > > just made alittle denser.
> > >
> > > I am going to the news paper office and the recycle center in the
> > > morning to investigate a new source. And try to figure out what to do
> > > with the 2 tons of paper sacks I have on site.
> > >
> > > Rusty
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> > > <williams_judith@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It may be that your feed sacks have plastic in them. If that is the
> > > case then i would say find another source of paper. If it is because
> > > they are too thick maybe you should let them soak longer. I've found
> > > that paper absorbs water better after it has gone through a few rain
> > > showers. It gets wet and dries and really soaks up the water.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Follow progress on the new project at
> > > http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > > >
> > > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > From: slaytonfarms@
> > > > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:42:35 +0000
> > > > Subject: [papercreters] Paper Issue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper
> > > that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper
> > > feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour
> > > three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls
> > > that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2
> > > hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This
> > > helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump
> > > at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time).
> > > This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper.
> > > That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again,
> > > then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better,
> > > but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to
> > > find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as
> > > does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of
> > > feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My
> > > help and patience will not allow it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rusty
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > > Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4730 - Release Date: 01/08/12
> > >
> >
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-21T12:38:00.000-06:00

Hi All;

Please note that I have recently posted a photo of a current mixer prototype. It has the capacity to do hundreds of gallons, will utilize wast wood and fibre for fuel using a Syn-Gas Generator.

Take Care........ Bob

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "prrr.t21@..." <prrr@...> wrote:
>
> Any given mixer only has so much shearing power. Your tough paper requires more than the mixer is giving. If you can increase the mixer blade speed it may get enough force going to do it.
>
> I've tried long soaks on paper, it helped to a degree, but nothing great.
>
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> > In the archives somewhere is my information on using feed bags. We soak
> > ours for about 12 hours before mixing. Then, they work perfect. It is
> > tough paper, but it makes really good papercrete.
> >
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Garth & Kim Travis
> > www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> > Bedias, Texas
> >
> > On 1/8/2012 5:16 PM, Rusty S wrote:
> > > No Plastic. I have been through every layer and inch of these things.
> > > They are made to carry weight and be thrown around. So I figure they are
> > > just made alittle denser.
> > >
> > > I am going to the news paper office and the recycle center in the
> > > morning to investigate a new source. And try to figure out what to do
> > > with the 2 tons of paper sacks I have on site.
> > >
> > > Rusty
> > >
> > > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> > > <williams_judith@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It may be that your feed sacks have plastic in them. If that is the
> > > case then i would say find another source of paper. If it is because
> > > they are too thick maybe you should let them soak longer. I've found
> > > that paper absorbs water better after it has gone through a few rain
> > > showers. It gets wet and dries and really soaks up the water.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Follow progress on the new project at
> > > http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > > >
> > > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > From: slaytonfarms@
> > > > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:42:35 +0000
> > > > Subject: [papercreters] Paper Issue
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper
> > > that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper
> > > feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour
> > > three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls
> > > that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2
> > > hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This
> > > helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump
> > > at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time).
> > > This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper.
> > > That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again,
> > > then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better,
> > > but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to
> > > find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as
> > > does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of
> > > feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My
> > > help and patience will not allow it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rusty
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > > Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4730 - Release Date: 01/08/12
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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RE: [papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-18T19:23:00.000-06:00

1" wood ash..... Thanks think I'll use that.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: eogreensticks@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:59:23 +1100
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

that sounds like how i do papercrete-planning to try a small patio
rocket but thought i would use a layer of perlite concrete which is
then rendered with papercrete-i am using 2-1 magnesium to portland as
th concrete constituent with phosphoric acid 'boosted' chicken manure
additionaly so somethin along th lines of 2 pulp, 1 chick manure with
about 1/20 part phosphoric acid, 1 sand to 1 part cement made into a
slurry (2-1 mag to pc) -not sure about th thermal mass or insulative
factor, guess thats part of th experiment in small patio rocket
project. on th woodstove i cobbed around, i used an inch thick layer
of wood ash between th metal and th cob which i read about doing-(an
insulative layer?) result: vastly improved and beautified th leaky old
stove and made a nice warm place to sit, leaning against its warm
side. some minimal cracking but repairable.

On 1/19/12, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> My thoughts are........why would the papercrete, if mixed the way I mix
> it, which is to add the wet paper pulp to the mixing container, then add
> the cement and mix until the paper pulp looks like wet cement and no
> paper pieces can be seen, then add clay and sand to that mixture until
> the desired thickness is achieved, then this mixture can be applied just
> like cob, why would the cement impregnated paper burn and the straw in
> cob not burn, and the straw is not impregnated with cement, it is still
> just straw?
>
> I am going to build a rocket stove and use the papercrete mixture listed
> above and I will post my results when complete, this experment may
> benifit all who are looking for a way to heat with wood and not have to
> have cords upon cords of wood just to get through a winter.
>
> I realize what I am calling papercrete probably is not what most of you
> would call paprecrete, my mixture is 3-2-1 same as concrete, three
> paper, (1 clay and 1 sand, sometimes two clay or two sand instead of one
> each), and one cement, this mixture will dry very fast, in hot weather
> it will harden overnight, it shrinks very little, and even cob shrinks
> some while it is drying.
>
> Bob
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't been following this subject (in MA with my daughter with very
> limited internet access) but will say that I have used papercrete and
> cob together in my fireplace. I put the cob near where the fire will be
> and the papercrete on the outside to insulate. I know others have done
> this in the past. The idea is to store the heat and not catch the thing
> on fire.
>
>
> I know Paul Wheaton (from permies.com and richsoil.com) this is a great
> idea when using cob, but bad idea for papercrete. It won't get thermal
> mass. You will burn the wood or whatever you put in there more
> efficiently but you won't get the heat you want. Also I would venture to
> guess that the paper fibers themselves might gassify with all that heat,
> and not sure what that would do internally to the cement (i.e. de-bond
> the cement?)
>
>
> I've been looking at the following site
> http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was
> wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
>
> Bob
>
>
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-18T16:59:00.001-06:00

On 1/19/12, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> My thoughts are........why would the papercrete, if mixed the way I mix
> it, which is to add the wet paper pulp to the mixing container, then add
> the cement and mix until the paper pulp looks like wet cement and no
> paper pieces can be seen, then add clay and sand to that mixture until
> the desired thickness is achieved, then this mixture can be applied just
> like cob, why would the cement impregnated paper burn and the straw in
> cob not burn, and the straw is not impregnated with cement, it is still
> just straw?
>
> I am going to build a rocket stove and use the papercrete mixture listed
> above and I will post my results when complete, this experment may
> benifit all who are looking for a way to heat with wood and not have to
> have cords upon cords of wood just to get through a winter.
>
> I realize what I am calling papercrete probably is not what most of you
> would call paprecrete, my mixture is 3-2-1 same as concrete, three
> paper, (1 clay and 1 sand, sometimes two clay or two sand instead of one
> each), and one cement, this mixture will dry very fast, in hot weather
> it will harden overnight, it shrinks very little, and even cob shrinks
> some while it is drying.
>
> Bob
>
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't been following this subject (in MA with my daughter with very
> limited internet access) but will say that I have used papercrete and
> cob together in my fireplace. I put the cob near where the fire will be
> and the papercrete on the outside to insulate. I know others have done
> this in the past. The idea is to store the heat and not catch the thing
> on fire.
>
>
> I know Paul Wheaton (from permies.com and richsoil.com) this is a great
> idea when using cob, but bad idea for papercrete. It won't get thermal
> mass. You will burn the wood or whatever you put in there more
> efficiently but you won't get the heat you want. Also I would venture to
> guess that the paper fibers themselves might gassify with all that heat,
> and not sure what that would do internally to the cement (i.e. de-bond
> the cement?)
>
>
> I've been looking at the following site
> http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was
> wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
>
> Bob
>
>
>

------------------------------------

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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[papercreters] Right Guide For Building Regulations

2012-01-18T16:41:00.000-06:00

When my husband and I planned about the house that we will have, I told him that the wiring should be placed in a safe place where it cannot be reached by our children to prevent fatal injuries caused by electricity. That is why he made it sure that the installation of all the wiring of switches, sockets and cables were perfectly done by hiring a licensed electrician who strictly followed the Part P building regulations guide for electrical safety of the UK Building Regulations.

With the help of that guide we gained knowledge in preventing future accidents caused by wrong installation of electrical wiring. Good thing that the UK Building Regulations offers a complete and up to-date guide of building regulations.

If you want to know more about these regulations, visit the site of UK Building Regulations at http://www.uk-building-regulations.com/

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-18T11:16:00.001-06:00

My thoughts are........why would the papercrete, if mixed the way I mix it, which is to add the wet paper pulp to the mixing container, then add the cement and mix until the paper pulp looks like wet cement and no paper pieces can be seen, then add clay and sand to that mixture until the desired thickness is achieved, then this mixture can be applied just like cob, why would the cement impregnated paper burn and the straw in cob not burn, and the straw is not impregnated with cement, it is still just straw?

I am going to build a rocket stove and use the papercrete mixture listed above and I will post my results when complete, this experment may benifit all who are looking for a way to heat with wood and not have to have cords upon cords of wood just to get through a winter.

I realize what I am calling papercrete probably is not what most of you would call paprecrete, my mixture is 3-2-1 same as concrete, three paper, (1 clay and 1 sand, sometimes two clay or two sand instead of one each), and one cement, this mixture will dry very fast, in hot weather it will harden overnight, it shrinks very little, and even cob shrinks some while it is drying.

Bob

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:

I haven't been following this subject (in MA with my daughter with very limited internet access) but will say that I have used papercrete and cob together in my fireplace. I put the cob near where the fire will be and the papercrete on the outside to insulate. I know others have done this in the past. The idea is to store the heat and not catch the thing on fire.

I know Paul Wheaton (from permies.com and richsoil.com) this is a great idea when using cob, but bad idea for papercrete. It won't get thermal mass. You will burn the wood or whatever you put in there more efficiently but you won't get the heat you want. Also I would venture to guess that the paper fibers themselves might gassify with all that heat, and not sure what that would do internally to the cement (i.e. de-bond the cement?)

I've been looking at the following site http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?

Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

RE: [papercreters] Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-14T21:59:00.000-06:00

I haven't been following this subject (in MA with my daughter with very limited internet access) but will say that I have used papercrete and cob together in my fireplace. I put the cob near where the fire will be and the papercrete on the outside to insulate. I know others have done this in the past. The idea is to store the heat and not catch the thing on fire.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: perryway@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:07:33 -0800
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I've been looking at the following site http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-13T18:07:00.001-06:00

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, countryatheartok <criswells.ok@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I've been looking at the following site http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?

Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-13T15:21:00.001-06:00

Greetings,
If you leave the paper out, yes you have cob. Otherwise you have paper
adobe and it insulates. Many of us build with that instead of using
cement. Clay and paper pulp are insulating, as much as the cement
mixture is.

Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas

On 1/13/2012 3:16 PM, countryatheartok wrote:
> I was under the impression, that if you added enough clay and sand to
> papercrete you gained thermal mass and lost insulation value! Cob is
> clay, sand and straw, seems to me clay, sand and paper pulp would work
> just as well.
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Papercrete is insulation, not thermal mass. You don't want to insulate
> > the heat to stay in the fire box. I have seen it tried, a friend made a
> > fire place out of papercrete. Burned nicely, but you could freeze to
> > death within five feet of it.
> >
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Garth & Kim Travis
> > www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> > Bedias, Texas
> >
> > On 1/13/2012 3:07 PM, countryatheartok wrote:
> > > I've been looking at the following site
> > > http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others,
> and was
> > > wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> > > used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > > Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4740 - Release Date:
> 01/13/12
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4740 - Release Date: 01/13/12
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-13T15:18:00.001-06:00

OOPs forgot to say cement as well as clay, sand and paper pulp.
Bob
--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "countryatheartok" <criswells.ok@...> wrote:
>
> I was under the impression, that if you added enough clay and sand to papercrete you gained thermal mass and lost insulation value! Cob is clay, sand and straw, seems to me clay, sand and paper pulp would work just as well.
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Papercrete is insulation, not thermal mass. You don't want to insulate
> > the heat to stay in the fire box. I have seen it tried, a friend made a
> > fire place out of papercrete. Burned nicely, but you could freeze to
> > death within five feet of it.
> >
> > Bright Blessings,
> > Garth & Kim Travis
> > www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> > Bedias, Texas
> >
> > On 1/13/2012 3:07 PM, countryatheartok wrote:
> > > I've been looking at the following site
> > > http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was
> > > wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> > > used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > > Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4740 - Release Date: 01/13/12
> > >
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-13T15:16:00.001-06:00

I was under the impression, that if you added enough clay and sand to papercrete you gained thermal mass and lost insulation value! Cob is clay, sand and straw, seems to me clay, sand and paper pulp would work just as well.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> Papercrete is insulation, not thermal mass. You don't want to insulate
> the heat to stay in the fire box. I have seen it tried, a friend made a
> fire place out of papercrete. Burned nicely, but you could freeze to
> death within five feet of it.
>
> Bright Blessings,
> Garth & Kim Travis
> www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> Bedias, Texas
>
> On 1/13/2012 3:07 PM, countryatheartok wrote:
> > I've been looking at the following site
> > http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was
> > wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> > used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4740 - Release Date: 01/13/12
> >
>

------------------------------------

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Re: [papercreters] Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-13T15:10:00.001-06:00

Greetings,
Papercrete is insulation, not thermal mass. You don't want to insulate
the heat to stay in the fire box. I have seen it tried, a friend made a
fire place out of papercrete. Burned nicely, but you could freeze to
death within five feet of it.

Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas

On 1/13/2012 3:07 PM, countryatheartok wrote:
> I've been looking at the following site
> http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp and others, and was
> wondering if instead of cob for thermal mass, if papercrete could be
> used instead. Has anybody else thought of this or tried it?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4740 - Release Date: 01/13/12
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Thermal Mass Rocket Stove Heater with Papercrete

2012-01-13T15:07:00.001-06:00

Bob

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: [papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-10T09:30:00.001-06:00

Greetings,
The pure paper bags don't stand up well to earth bag construction. The
plastic lined ones do, though. I have used both and this is what we
found. Our soil is extremely acid, so that may have something to do
with it.

Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas

On 1/10/2012 8:28 AM, kujo85344 wrote:
> Use the sacks for earthbags or you could sell them for that purpose.
> Sources are hard to find.
> Earthbag building is yet another alternative building technique.
> http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/
>
> I have read articles by those that have used papercrete as a mortar both
> inside and out to seal the bags and add insulation.
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, "Rusty S" <slaytonfarms@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper
> that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper
> feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour
> three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls
> that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2
> hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This
> helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump
> at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time).
> This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper.
> That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again,
> then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better,
> but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
> >
> > Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to
> find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as
> does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of
> feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
> >
> > Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My
> help and patience will not allow it.
> >
> > Rusty
> >
>
>

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[papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-10T08:28:00.000-06:00

Use the sacks for earthbags or you could sell them for that purpose. Sources are hard to find.
Earthbag building is yet another alternative building technique. http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/

I have read articles by those that have used papercrete as a mortar both inside and out to seal the bags and add insulation.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Rusty S" <slaytonfarms@...> wrote:
>
> I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2 hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time). This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper. That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again, then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better, but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
>
> Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
>
> Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My help and patience will not allow it.
>
> Rusty
>

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[papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-09T06:55:00.001-06:00

Just remembered, another way to increase shearing force on the paper is to add fixed paddles to the side of the mixing drum.

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[papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-08T18:43:00.001-06:00

Any given mixer only has so much shearing power. Your tough paper requires more than the mixer is giving. If you can increase the mixer blade speed it may get enough force going to do it.

I've tried long soaks on paper, it helped to a degree, but nothing great.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Garth & Kim Travis <gartht@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> In the archives somewhere is my information on using feed bags. We soak
> ours for about 12 hours before mixing. Then, they work perfect. It is
> tough paper, but it makes really good papercrete.
>
> Bright Blessings,
> Garth & Kim Travis
> www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
> Bedias, Texas
>
> On 1/8/2012 5:16 PM, Rusty S wrote:
> > No Plastic. I have been through every layer and inch of these things.
> > They are made to carry weight and be thrown around. So I figure they are
> > just made alittle denser.
> >
> > I am going to the news paper office and the recycle center in the
> > morning to investigate a new source. And try to figure out what to do
> > with the 2 tons of paper sacks I have on site.
> >
> > Rusty
> >
> > --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> > <williams_judith@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > It may be that your feed sacks have plastic in them. If that is the
> > case then i would say find another source of paper. If it is because
> > they are too thick maybe you should let them soak longer. I've found
> > that paper absorbs water better after it has gone through a few rain
> > showers. It gets wet and dries and really soaks up the water.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Follow progress on the new project at
> > http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> > >
> > > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> > >
> > >
> > > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > From: slaytonfarms@
> > > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:42:35 +0000
> > > Subject: [papercreters] Paper Issue
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper
> > that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper
> > feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour
> > three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls
> > that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2
> > hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This
> > helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump
> > at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time).
> > This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper.
> > That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again,
> > then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better,
> > but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to
> > find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as
> > does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of
> > feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My
> > help and patience will not allow it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rusty
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> > Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4730 - Release Date: 01/08/12
> >
>

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[papercreters] Re: Hi, I just want to ask if I understand it right

2012-01-08T18:37:00.001-06:00

Its true within limits. In practice the solids in the pc mix will settle down if the mix is too thin, and you cant stop that. Also pc shrinks a bit as it sets & dries.

If you need to increase the strength & density, just up the cement content and compress the mix in the mould.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Ales Patera" <dr.meduza@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> I just want to ask if I understand it right how to make desired mount of papercrete with density I want
>
> For example if I want 1 m3 (35 cu ft) of pc with density 650 kg/m3 (40.5 lb/ft3)
> I'll take 1m3 of water and put into it 650kg of ingredients - dry weight (like 470kg of paper, 120kg of cement and 60kg lime)
> And if I want pc with density for example 350 kg/m3 I just put less ingredients into same amount of water, maybe with little recipe adjustment.
>
> Is my idea of it right?
> So the density of a final product is controlled by density of paper slurry I'll make and then add other ingredients by weight ratio of dry paper.
>

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-08T17:46:00.001-06:00

Greetings,
In the archives somewhere is my information on using feed bags. We soak
ours for about 12 hours before mixing. Then, they work perfect. It is
tough paper, but it makes really good papercrete.

Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas

On 1/8/2012 5:16 PM, Rusty S wrote:
> No Plastic. I have been through every layer and inch of these things.
> They are made to carry weight and be thrown around. So I figure they are
> just made alittle denser.
>
> I am going to the news paper office and the recycle center in the
> morning to investigate a new source. And try to figure out what to do
> with the 2 tons of paper sacks I have on site.
>
> Rusty
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>, JUDITH WILLIAMS
> <williams_judith@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > It may be that your feed sacks have plastic in them. If that is the
> case then i would say find another source of paper. If it is because
> they are too thick maybe you should let them soak longer. I've found
> that paper absorbs water better after it has gone through a few rain
> showers. It gets wet and dries and really soaks up the water.
> >
> >
> >
> > Follow progress on the new project at
> http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> >
> > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> >
> >
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com <mailto:papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>
> > From: slaytonfarms@...
> > Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:42:35 +0000
> > Subject: [papercreters] Paper Issue
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper
> that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper
> feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour
> three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls
> that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2
> hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This
> helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump
> at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time).
> This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper.
> That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again,
> then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better,
> but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
> >
> >
> >
> > Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to
> find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as
> does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of
> feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
> >
> >
> >
> > Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My
> help and patience will not allow it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rusty
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4730 - Release Date: 01/08/12
>

------------------------------------

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[papercreters] Re: Paper Issue

2012-01-08T17:16:00.001-06:00

No Plastic. I have been through every layer and inch of these things. They are made to carry weight and be thrown around. So I figure they are just made alittle denser.

I am going to the news paper office and the recycle center in the morning to investigate a new source. And try to figure out what to do with the 2 tons of paper sacks I have on site.

Rusty

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@...> wrote:
>
>
> It may be that your feed sacks have plastic in them. If that is the case then i would say find another source of paper. If it is because they are too thick maybe you should let them soak longer. I've found that paper absorbs water better after it has gone through a few rain showers. It gets wet and dries and really soaks up the water.
>
>
>
> Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
>
> More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
>
>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> From: slaytonfarms@...
> Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:42:35 +0000
> Subject: [papercreters] Paper Issue
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> I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2 hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time). This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper. That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again, then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better, but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.
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> Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.
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> Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My help and patience will not allow it.
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> Rusty
>

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RE: [papercreters] Paper Issue

2012-01-08T10:47:00.001-06:00

It may be that your feed sacks have plastic in them. If that is the case then i would say find another source of paper. If it is because they are too thick maybe you should let them soak longer. I've found that paper absorbs water better after it has gone through a few rain showers. It gets wet and dries and really soaks up the water.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: slaytonfarms@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:42:35 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Paper Issue

I have finally got my mixer working great. But The horde of paper that I have gathered is giving me fits. I have been collecting paper feed sacks. Yesterday, after 6 hours of work I was only able to pour three full mixer loads. This is because the feed sacks clump into balls that will not break down until I reach in and tear them apart by hand (2 hours). The second load, I tore the sacks inhalf (one at a time). This helped alittle as the load took almost two hours to break it down, clump at a time. The last load, I seperated the sacks (again one at a time). This means tearing it in half them seperating the three layers of paper. That took forever, then I let it soak for an hour. Then mixed it again, then added portland and aggregate. This load did break down alot better, but I had clumbs that would not pass through the (6in) spout.

Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.

Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My help and patience will not allow it.

Rusty

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

[papercreters] Paper Issue

2012-01-08T10:42:00.001-06:00

Have I wasted time and energy with these feed sacks? Should I try to find another source of paper. Newspapers work fantastic in my mixer as does cardboard if I let it soak. I was simply able to have a mass of feed sacks delivered to my site and was sure they would work.

Advice is welcome. I can't spend all day and only pour 3 loads. My help and patience will not allow it.

Rusty

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Re: [papercreters] Hi, I just want to ask if I understand it right

2012-01-07T11:59:00.001-06:00

The weight of your final product will be the weight of the paper plus the weight of additives like portland cement, borax, sand, etc. A bit of the water stays after hydrating the cement and as moisture content in the pc.

When you mix with a lot of water the excess water just runs out of your forms, leaving about the same density as pc mixed with less water. For ease of mixing and pumping I normally mix with quite a bit of water. The paper pulps better/easier with more water. When I can, I try to capture the runoff for reuse, but in many cases that just isn't practical. Luckily most of the cement and additives are filtered by the fibers and stay behind when the water drains. The amount of water is not critical since most of it leaves rapidly, the ratio of paper/cement/additives is what determines your density.

You can compress after mixing. As Judith said, you can add more cement, sand, gravel. Strength is not normally a problem since pc is ALWAYS used under compression, never under tension. In general pc is used in thick walls, and this gives plenty of compressive strength, especially when the weight is spread with a bond beam. Tests have shown "normal" pc to have in the range of 400psi compression strength, depending on the exact mix used.

If you haven't yet mixed any pulp, try a small batch in a cheap blender. Dump it into a form with openings in the bottom and let it drain. Do another and compress it. Experiment a little with cement and sand.

spaceman

On 1/5/2012 1:31 PM, Ales Patera wrote:

Hi  I just want to ask if I understand it right how to make desired mount of papercrete with density I want   For example if I want 1 m3 (35 cu ft) of pc with density 650 kg/m3 (40.5 lb/ft3)  I'll take 1m3 of water and put into it 650kg of ingredients - dry weight (like 470kg of paper, 120kg of cement and 60kg lime) And if I want pc with density for example 350 kg/m3 I just put less ingredients into same amount of water, maybe with little recipe adjustment.   Is my idea of it right? So the density of a final product is controlled by density of paper slurry I'll make and then add other ingredients by weight ratio of dry paper.    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4728 - Release Date: 01/07/12

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RE: [papercreters] Hi, I just want to ask if I understand it right

2012-01-07T10:16:00.000-06:00

Yikes! That's a lot of numbers. I'm not sure what you are asking but I would say that the density of the final product depends on how much cement is added. When I started making papercrete there were some who used up to 7 bags of cement per 200 gallon batch. Man were those blocks ever heavy. I got it down to 1/2 bag per load for infill walls and 1 bag when I wanted more density.

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: dr.meduza@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 20:31:04 +0000
Subject: [papercreters] Hi, I just want to ask if I understand it right

Hi
I just want to ask if I understand it right how to make desired mount of papercrete with density I want

For example if I want 1 m3 (35 cu ft) of pc with density 650 kg/m3 (40.5 lb/ft3)
I'll take 1m3 of water and put into it 650kg of ingredients - dry weight (like 470kg of paper, 120kg of cement and 60kg lime)
And if I want pc with density for example 350 kg/m3 I just put less ingredients into same amount of water, maybe with little recipe adjustment.

Is my idea of it right?
So the density of a final product is controlled by density of paper slurry I'll make and then add other ingredients by weight ratio of dry paper.

__._,_.___

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[papercreters] Hi, I just want to ask if I understand it right

2012-01-05T14:31:00.000-06:00

Hi
I just want to ask if I understand it right how to make desired mount of papercrete with density I want

For example if I want 1 m3 (35 cu ft) of pc with density 650 kg/m3 (40.5 lb/ft3)
I'll take 1m3 of water and put into it 650kg of ingredients - dry weight (like 470kg of paper, 120kg of cement and 60kg lime)
And if I want pc with density for example 350 kg/m3 I just put less ingredients into same amount of water, maybe with little recipe adjustment.

Is my idea of it right?
So the density of a final product is controlled by density of paper slurry I'll make and then add other ingredients by weight ratio of dry paper.

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[papercreters] Did anybody use a dehumidifier to lessen the water content of p/c?

2011-12-21T19:08:00.000-06:00

i live in the great white north eh...lol and to make this product was thinking on how to dry it out faster with out the use of the sun?i,m in no big hurry mass produce them so this would make a six month experiment.And to store the already made ones after they have dried ,whats the best storage of these bricks?

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[papercreters] wwoofers

2011-12-21T08:19:00.000-06:00

Greetings,

I have been enjoying a pair of wwoofers for the last two weeks. Jason
and Kyle are touring the southwest states this winter on their
motorcycles, a pair of Kawasaki. They are 25, courteous, respectful,
and great workers. They would love to be exposed to papercrete and
alternative building techniques. They are listed with the wwoofer
website, but you don't have to be. If anyone would like to host them
for a week or so, please contact me off list.

We are sad to loose them, but I am happy to share such great people with
the good people on this list.

--
Bright Blessings,
Garth & Kim Travis
www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
Bedias, Texas

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Re: [papercreters] Re: PC in cold, wet, climes

2011-12-21T08:02:00.001-06:00

The aggregates will increase the compressive strength but probably don't help any with tensile strength. That is normally not a concern with the way papercrete is commonly used, either as infill or under compression, but never under tension.

One really nice advantage of using filler in pc is that you get to mix that much less. I'm using lightweight filler, like bottles. Personally I'm not excited about the idea of carrying around a load of rocks, and luckily my place has none.

spaceman

On 12/21/2011 6:30 AM, trendawareness wrote:

I'm a papercrete newbie myself, but it's my understanding that using stone and gravel aggregates will strengthen papercrete, but decrease its R-value in the process, much in the same way adding a lot of sand does.  I'm sure some of the more experienced users on this forum could speak to this better than I can however.  --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ANNALIS" <n2art25@...> wrote:

 I lived in Walton Ky for a 1.5 years in 1989-1991.  It is a great area and reminds me much of where I live now which is in Oklahoma.  The summers are brutal with lots of humidity which make the heat seem unbearable.  We are wanting to do some papercrete here and are thinking of doing slip forms.  Has anyone used stone with their papercrete.  I live on what seems to be a stone garden.......

    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1890 / Virus Database: 2109/4693 - Release Date: 12/20/11

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[papercreters] Re: PC in cold, wet, climes

2011-12-21T07:30:00.001-06:00

I'm a papercrete newbie myself, but it's my understanding that using stone and gravel aggregates will strengthen papercrete, but decrease its R-value in the process, much in the same way adding a lot of sand does.

I'm sure some of the more experienced users on this forum could speak to this better than I can however.

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "ANNALIS" <n2art25@...> wrote:
>
> I lived in Walton Ky for a 1.5 years in 1989-1991. It is a great area and reminds me much of where I live now which is in Oklahoma. The summers are brutal with lots of humidity which make the heat seem unbearable. We are wanting to do some papercrete here and are thinking of doing slip forms. Has anyone used stone with their papercrete. I live on what seems to be a stone garden.......
>

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[papercreters] Re: PC in cold, wet, climes

2011-12-20T10:18:00.000-06:00

I lived in Walton Ky for a 1.5 years in 1989-1991. It is a great area and reminds me much of where I live now which is in Oklahoma. The summers are brutal with lots of humidity which make the heat seem unbearable. We are wanting to do some papercrete here and are thinking of doing slip forms. Has anyone used stone with their papercrete. I live on what seems to be a stone garden.......

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "trendawareness" <trendlinesystems@...> wrote:
>
> I live in "Cincitucky" (South of the Ohio river on the Kentucky side of the greater Cincinnati Metro area), but most folks don't know where that is. So I say "Ohio" or "Ohio Valley" when referring to the climate.
>
> I have a nice tool shed now. The folks that built it did pour it a slab and I have nothing against concrete. My only problem is it's full of tools and I don't have anywhere to store paper and other combustibles away from the house. So I figure I'd make a PC structure come spring. A "lean-to" against my existing shed might be an option as it's rather tall w/ 8'ft walls plus a sloped roof.
>
> Since PC is so light, I could also build a free-standing structure above-ground.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I poured a papercrete floor in early May (or maybe it was April). It was about 4" thick. I made some big mistakes with the mix and had to tear the entire floor out about 5 months later. It was still very wet underneath and had a strong moldy smell so I would not recommend a papercrete floor. If I had the money and did not have a prejudice against concrete I would pour a slab and build up from that with the blocks. That would simplify things a lot. What I did was use a rubble trench foundation and use latex paint in the first 2 courses of papercrete to water proof it. This worked out OK but it would be a lot easier to do the slab. Or raise the building on a platform.
> >
> > Keep in mind that a 12 x 12 building is a big project so make sure you have a lot of help. I used a combination of blocks and slip forming in my little buildings and it went quite a bit quicker than the straight block method. There are a few things I would do differently but I feel it was a good way to use up the old blocks and speed up the process.
> >
> > I lived in Ohio for a while and yes it is a wet climate. I wouldn't worry too much about the moisture issue except to be very careful about keeping all papercrete away from standing water or from roof leaks.
> >
> > Have fun with your project and please keep us posted on how you are doing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog
> >
> > More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith
> >
> >
> > To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> > From: trendlinesystems@
> > Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 14:31:02 +0000
> > Subject: [papercreters] PC in cold, wet, climes
> >
> >
>

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Re: [papercreters] Re: Out door drying in Ohio

2011-12-12T17:00:00.001-06:00

I think he was just asking about protecting the slabs from all the rain until they harden up enough so he can carry them into his garage and place them on shelves.

Alan in Michigan

--- On Mon, 12/12/11, Gary Olsen <gobug@live.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Olsen <gobug@live.com>
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Out door drying in Ohio
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 10:04 AM
> I know exactly what a movable hoop
> greenhouse is; however, I am not sure how you might use PC.
>
>
> Are you thinking the skirt wall is PC?
>
> I could imagine a mesh attached to a welded wire frame
> (like cattle panel) then sprayed with PC. Since the
> greenhouse heat loss is the least if the air movement can be
> controlled, the PC could be thin, hence lightweight. Then
> the greenhouse motion would include the PC skirtwall.
>
> Good luck if you proceed. I look forward to postings
> because I am in the process of doing the same thing come
> spring in the Colorado mountains.
> gary
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

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[papercreters] Re: Slip Forming Question

2011-12-12T09:14:00.001-06:00

Can you send me this picture aswell? Please?

Rusty
Slaytonfarms@gmail.com

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ron Richter <ronerichter@...> wrote:
>
> If you pour like in Bob's pictures you can leave the forms on till the next layer is poured.Â If you use slip forms like in my pictures you can see there is a "skirt" on the form.Â That is there because the next day after all the drainage over the course of a day, the top of the pour will be the driest hence the most shrinkage will have occurred.Â Placing the forms on this without a skirt enables a lot of slurry to slip through to the ground.Â With the skirt however, all the slurry will fill and become a stable portion of the wall.Â In one of the pictures I sent you can see the skirt made of new plywood pointed up on the corner.Â Either method will produce exactly what you asked about, basically a filled vertical wall.
> Ron
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: trendawareness <trendlinesystems@...>
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 4:06 AM
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Slip Forming Question
>
>
> Â
>
> Thank you for the detailed reply.
>
> The drainage from the molds shouldn't pose much of a problem, except around the electrical boxes. I'll probably place some pre-formed PC around those and fill it in a non-conductive insulator.
>
> However there's a thin board between the studs and the exterior aluminum siding. I presume that's water resistant and it won't mind getting damp for half a day or so while the PC cures. If not, should I set in a layer of thin plastic sheeting prior to the pour?
>
> Also, you indicate that the PC will pull back from the forms as it cures. My question is, when I pour on day 2 above day 1's pour, should I leave day 1's form in place to contain the slurry that may back-fill over where day 1 contracted? In effect walking two 1' boards up the wall by moving day 1 up to day 3 and so on?
>
> Thanks again!
>

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